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Old
10-18-2011, 01:31 PM
  #26
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I miss watching that guy stroll behind the net with the puck in the offensive zone 5v5.

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Old
10-18-2011, 01:41 PM
  #27
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Here too?

He is a minus 3 and a bunch of PP second assists.

He didn't deserve an assist on 3 of them.

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Old
10-18-2011, 01:53 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Who cares how he is doing now? He didn't do anything in Chicago that made him worthy of being our highest paid player. (cap hit)
Why is this still a discussion? While I think EVERYONE agrees there is no way he could live up to the huge salary he got to come here, the fact is, the way the Hawks organization was back then we HAD to pay him that much money to get him here. The organization was horrible, and it took overpayment just to get players agents to return phone calls from the Hawks. It was a necessary evil. I don't consider it a "Dumb" signing or contract by Tallon because he had to pay that much to get the guy here to get things started. You know what? He was right!

And after we won the cup, and our younger guys started developing, Bowman did the right thing and moved that contract on out of here (lets not kid ourselves, he moved the contract, not the player).

No harm, no foul. We got a Cup, and lets not forget the details as to what it took players to come to the Hawks back then. Things have come a LONG way in the last few years so its easy to forget. Now we have guys taking salary reductions just to play here. What a difference a few years makes....but it all started with Campbell and a couple nice draft picks.

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10-18-2011, 01:57 PM
  #29
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Campbell doing well offensively should come as no surprise. He's a top pairing D-man and a PP quarterback in Florida. Don't be surprised to see 50 points. Fact is, it was time for both sides to move on and as long as the Hawks are winning, we shouldn't miss him. At the same time, we should appreciate what he did hear because he was a very good player.

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10-18-2011, 04:14 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Yes thats exactly what is happening in FL with Campbell. He's basically skating circles around everyone and it really is fun to watch! He is looking like the player that Tallon signed as a free agent. He does have a defensive gaffe here or there and no I don't think he's worth his full salary cap hit. But he's clearly worth more than what the Panthers gave up to get him and can't understand how Bowman couldn't get more in trade than just Olesz who also has a horrible cap hit (we were expecting at least giving up a pick in the deal).
I know most don't care but Florida has basically become "Blackhawk South" and all the former Hawks are playing well so far. Hopefully we continue to build a similar team to the Hawks and be a perennial playoff team as well.
The Hawks basically traded Campbell for $4 million in cap space and some guy...that is all. The $4 million in cap space is much more valuable than that guy.

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Old
10-18-2011, 04:33 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Yes thats exactly what is happening in FL with Campbell. He's basically skating circles around everyone and it really is fun to watch! He is looking like the player that Tallon signed as a free agent. He does have a defensive gaffe here or there and no I don't think he's worth his full salary cap hit. But he's clearly worth more than what the Panthers gave up to get him and can't understand how Bowman couldn't get more in trade than just Olesz who also has a horrible cap hit (we were expecting at least giving up a pick in the deal).

I know most don't care but Florida has basically become "Blackhawk South" and all the former Hawks are playing well so far. Hopefully we continue to build a similar team to the Hawks and be a perennial playoff team as well.
YOu cant understand why a 32 yr old dman with 5 yrs at 7.1+M (In actual salary and cap hit) for next 5 years wouldn't draw interest or get value? A guy who's production fell every year in Chicago

The other Panther fan pointed out he is showing signs of reverting back to his old form which is take chances/neglect D

As for Olesz ,, Even if Hawks buy him out this offseason his cap hits are very managable

Cap hits of a Olesz buyout this summer + his salary this year/cap hit

2011-12 = 3.125M cap hit (3.1M actual salary)
2012-13 = 500k
2013-14 = 250k
2014-15 = 1.375M
2015-16 = 1.375M

Lets look at Brian Campbell's cap hits and actual salary over same time

2011-12 = 7.142.875M cap hit and actual salary
2012-13 = 7.142.875M cap hit and actual salary
2013-14 = 7.142.875M cap hit and actual salary
2014-15 = 7.142.875M cap hit and actual salary
2015-16 = 7.142.875M cap hit and actual salary

So yeah ,, Anyone who has problem with this trade must have enjoyed filling roster with garbage like Pisani , Boynton , Cullimore , Hendry , etc

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Old
10-18-2011, 04:39 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
So yeah ,, Anyone who has problem with this trade must have enjoyed filling roster with garbage like Pisani , Boynton , Cullimore , Hendry , etc
This trade was one of the top two coups pulled by Bowman on his watch. (the other was Leddy for Cam Barker). Absolutely filthy.

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10-18-2011, 04:45 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Recoil View Post
This trade was one of the top two coups pulled by Bowman on his watch. (the other was Leddy for Cam Barker). Absolutely filthy.
Frolik + Salak for 2 Busts + a low level prospect was a coup as well

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10-18-2011, 05:41 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Frolik + Salak for 2 Busts + a low level prospect was a coup as well
As was the Byfuglien deal, although the prospects are still developing.

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10-18-2011, 05:58 PM
  #35
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Lest we forget the Stalberg deal, that was a coup as well.

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Old
10-18-2011, 06:11 PM
  #36
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Lest we forget the Stalberg deal, that was a coup as well.
?


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Old
10-19-2011, 12:32 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Frolik + Salak for 2 Busts + a low level prospect was a coup as well
It's funny how you're still calling Skille a bust.

All the additions the Panthers made this summer, Skille has actually been one of the best forwards on the team so far. He, Goc, and Bergenheim have developed some nice chemistry thus far, but you wouldn't know that just looking at box scores.

Speaking of box scores, Frolik's box scores sure are awesome.

If Skille is a bust, Frolik is a bust as well. He's just a soft Euro who scored because he had the opportunity to play with players like Horton and Weiss here.

He sure as hell isn't "Baby Jagr" that's for sure.

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Old
10-19-2011, 12:49 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
It's funny how you're still calling Skille a bust.

All the additions the Panthers made this summer, Skille has actually been one of the best forwards on the team so far. He, Goc, and Bergenheim have developed some nice chemistry thus far, but you wouldn't know that just looking at box scores.

Speaking of box scores, Frolik's box scores sure are awesome.

If Skille is a bust, Frolik is a bust as well. He's just a soft Euro who scored because he had the opportunity to play with players like Horton and Weiss here.

He sure as hell isn't "Baby Jagr" that's for sure.
I'm not calling Skille a bust, but he's not producing like you'd expect a 6th overall pick to produce is the issue with most. He's also still a pretty young guy but in reality he should've never been drafted that high so him being a "bust" would be as much an indictment on Hawks management at the time as it is on Skille himself. He can't help where he was drafted.

While not a bust, in my opinion, I do prefer Frolik over him. He's a better fit for this club and is clicking really well with the line he's on dating back to last season's playoffs. He's a better fit for this team and I like him over Skille, but I won't go so far as to call Skille a bust, per say. I wish him well there, and sounds like that's the case so far.

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Old
10-19-2011, 02:12 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
I'm not calling Skille a bust, but he's not producing like you'd expect a 6th overall pick to produce is the issue with most. He's also still a pretty young guy but in reality he should've never been drafted that high so him being a "bust" would be as much an indictment on Hawks management at the time as it is on Skille himself. He can't help where he was drafted.

While not a bust, in my opinion, I do prefer Frolik over him. He's a better fit for this club and is clicking really well with the line he's on dating back to last season's playoffs. He's a better fit for this team and I like him over Skille, but I won't go so far as to call Skille a bust, per say. I wish him well there, and sounds like that's the case so far.
And Frolik is not producing like a guy who should've been picked top-10.

My point is that if you're going to call one a bust right now, the other is basically a bust, as well.

I also don't understand how you praise a prospect like Salak and ignore the fact that Pacan was a part of that deal, as well.

At this point, I don't see how that trade can be seen as lopsided, by any means.

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10-19-2011, 02:14 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
I'm not calling Skille a bust, but he's not producing like you'd expect a 6th overall pick to produce is the issue with most. He's also still a pretty young guy but in reality he should've never been drafted that high so him being a "bust" would be as much an indictment on Hawks management at the time as it is on Skille himself. He can't help where he was drafted.

While not a bust, in my opinion, I do prefer Frolik over him. He's a better fit for this club and is clicking really well with the line he's on dating back to last season's playoffs. He's a better fit for this team and I like him over Skille, but I won't go so far as to call Skille a bust, per say. I wish him well there, and sounds like that's the case so far.
Skille is a bust. I will say it. He achieved on the level of a 3rd round pick not a first rounder.
Frolik's achievement is on the level of a second round pick. I would expect Brandon Pirri to develop into a Frolik type player obvious Pirri is a center, but Frolik has a few 20 goal seasons and that is fair to expect out of a solid second round pick even though Frolik was taken in the first round. Frolik's progression is exactly where he should be.


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Old
10-19-2011, 02:18 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
And Frolik is not producing like a guy who should've been picked top-10.

My point is that if you're going to call one a bust right now, the other is basically a bust, as well.

I also don't understand how you praise a prospect like Salak and ignore the fact that Pacan was a part of that deal, as well.

At this point, I don't see how that trade can be seen as lopsided, by any means.
Obviously, I wasn't the one you were addressing in the first place so to be clear, I'm not saying the deal was lopsided at this time.

EDIT: Skille was the 7th overall pick, not the 6th. My mistake.

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Old
10-19-2011, 02:57 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
It's funny how you're still calling Skille a bust.

All the additions the Panthers made this summer, Skille has actually been one of the best forwards on the team so far. He, Goc, and Bergenheim have developed some nice chemistry thus far, but you wouldn't know that just looking at box scores.

Speaking of box scores, Frolik's box scores sure are awesome.

If Skille is a bust, Frolik is a bust as well. He's just a soft Euro who scored because he had the opportunity to play with players like Horton and Weiss here.

He sure as hell isn't "Baby Jagr" that's for sure.
Skille has 28 in 97 NHL games (.29 ppg) and is -14, Frolik has 128 points in 246 games (.52) and is +10. Frolik hasn't played up to his draft position but he certainly isn't a bust compared to Skille. For comparison, Dave Bolland's career PPG is .54.

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10-19-2011, 03:12 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Skille has 28 in 97 NHL games (.29 ppg) and is -14, Frolik has 128 points in 246 games (.52) and is +10. Frolik hasn't played up to his draft position but he certainly isn't a bust compared to Skille. For comparison, Dave Bolland's career PPG is .54.
Thanks for sharing. Interesting numbers.

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Old
10-19-2011, 03:21 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Skille has 28 in 97 NHL games (.29 ppg) and is -14, Frolik has 128 points in 246 games (.52) and is +10. Frolik hasn't played up to his draft position but he certainly isn't a bust compared to Skille. For comparison, Dave Bolland's career PPG is .54.
In terms of points, Frolik has consistently regressed. He went from 45 to 43 to...did he even get to 40 last year?

Ever since he got to Chicago, his scoring #'s are down because he finally started playing for a real team (in other words, was no longer getting first line minutes that he never really deserved, but still got because the Panthers have been an AHL team for years).

Didn't Skille just basically play a 4th line role in Chicago? Either way, he's finally getting a significant opportunity here...in large part because he's earned it with his energy level.

30+ points from Skille by the end of the year playing on the 3rd line would not surprise me. In other words, slightly less production than Frolik.

Skille's problem seems to be that he just can't finish for some reason. He's a better skater than Frolik and has a better (or at least harder) shot than Frolik. Frolik's the better playmaker. Skille is more physical.

Does Frolik really look like a guy who's ever going to put up more than the 40-45 points he's put up early on in his career, especially now with diminished playing time on a real team?

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10-19-2011, 03:38 PM
  #45
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We traded-

Skille--4th line/pressbox on our team
Pacan-Who
HugeSpecimun-garbage

for

Frolik-Part of the best third line in the league
Salak-Our future backup goalie.

Good trade for us....Doesnt mean it was a bad trade for florida no need to take offense to us liking our end of the trade

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10-19-2011, 04:02 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by ChiHawk21 View Post
We traded-

Skille--4th line/pressbox on our team
Pacan-Who
HugeSpecimun-garbage

for

Frolik-Part of the best third line in the league
Salak-Our future backup goalie.

Good trade for us....Doesnt mean it was a bad trade for florida no need to take offense to us liking our end of the trade
The only thing about that that's true is "HugeSpecimun-garbage."

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10-19-2011, 04:03 PM
  #47
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Why is this still a discussion? While I think EVERYONE agrees there is no way he could live up to the huge salary he got to come here, the fact is, the way the Hawks organization was back then we HAD to pay him that much money to get him here. The organization was horrible, and it took overpayment just to get players agents to return phone calls from the Hawks. It was a necessary evil. I don't consider it a "Dumb" signing or contract by Tallon because he had to pay that much to get the guy here to get things started. You know what? He was right!

And after we won the cup, and our younger guys started developing, Bowman did the right thing and moved that contract on out of here (lets not kid ourselves, he moved the contract, not the player).

No harm, no foul. We got a Cup, and lets not forget the details as to what it took players to come to the Hawks back then. Things have come a LONG way in the last few years so its easy to forget. Now we have guys taking salary reductions just to play here. What a difference a few years makes....but it all started with Campbell and a couple nice draft picks.
Well, Bill Wirtz was a horrible owner for years, his antics only caused Hull, Roenick, Belfour, Chelios to split town...

Then we were dreadful for a decade - only made the playoffs once during that time span and were ironically beat by Q's Blues.

I always said for many years the Hawks would win a cup when Dollar Bill croaks....

It's great that players actually want to play here now...

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10-19-2011, 04:10 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
In terms of points, Frolik has consistently regressed. He went from 45 to 43 to...did he even get to 40 last year?

Ever since he got to Chicago, his scoring #'s are down because he finally started playing for a real team (in other words, was no longer getting first line minutes that he never really deserved, but still got because the Panthers have been an AHL team for years).

Didn't Skille just basically play a 4th line role in Chicago? Either way, he's finally getting a significant opportunity here...in large part because he's earned it with his energy level.

30+ points from Skille by the end of the year playing on the 3rd line would not surprise me. In other words, slightly less production than Frolik.

Skille's problem seems to be that he just can't finish for some reason. He's a better skater than Frolik and has a better (or at least harder) shot than Frolik. Frolik's the better playmaker. Skille is more physical.

Does Frolik really look like a guy who's ever going to put up more than the 40-45 points he's put up early on in his career, especially now with diminished playing time on a real team?
So... am I misinterpreting this or are you vilifying Frolik for the same thing that you're praising Skille? Because it sounds like Frolik was getting more minutes than he deserved and was seeing a point increase because of it but Skille somehow escapes that same criticism?

I'm glad that Skille is being given a chance because he didn't get many here in Chicago and I'm glad that Florida fans like this trade. I enjoyed his time here (as a 4th liner) and wish we would've kept him over Stalberg.

That being said, even with Skille's increased playing time, do you expect him to accomplish what Frolik already has at a younger age on a worse team? What about if he was given the same amount of ice time? As it is, Frolik only averaged roughly 3 minutes more per game than Skille is now. Frolik will likely outscore Skille simply because he's a better player and is better defensively to boot. Frolik may only be a 3rd liner here, but he's still expected to put up around 20/20 like he has in the past (and that's perfectly okay with us because we don't expect him to carry the offense like he was somewhat expected to in Florida).

Skille's a fantastic player in the bottom 6 because that's what his natural abilities qualify him for; his lack of IQ in the offensive zone is what prevents him from being overly successful in the top 6 and his tools (speed, physicality, decent shot) are better utilized in the bottom 6. If you haven't realized this yet, you will soon. He fits better in Florida than Frolik does, I suppose... but I have a hard time believing that Skille will accomplish anything more than Frolik has/will, even with an inflated ice-time.

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10-20-2011, 01:44 AM
  #49
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And Frolik is not producing like a guy who should've been picked top-10.

My point is that if you're going to call one a bust right now, the other is basically a bust, as well.

I also don't understand how you praise a prospect like Salak and ignore the fact that Pacan was a part of that deal, as well.

At this point, I don't see how that trade can be seen as lopsided, by any means.
Frolik has 200+ Games and 0.5+ PPG
Call him a bust is just a lie. He wasn't a Top3 Pick and not every prospect pans out.


Skille was a 7th Pick that never made it with the Hawks and when he finally made the roster he did the same thing every time. Tallon loves him, this is the reason he was drafted this high, was 5 years with the Hawks and now is in Florida.
Look at some of the guys the Hawks could have drafted over Skille and now tell me that there are many many guys that you would draft over Frolik in his year.

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The only thing about that that's true is "HugeSpecimun-garbage."
Pacan = next to nothing... he is right
Skille = 4th Liner here... he is right
Salak = our future Backup only in the AHL because the Hawks want to get him playing time and not sit on the bench 60+ games... he is right
Frolik = part of the best 3rd line in the NHL right now... he is right


face it the way it is. Skille is on your 3rd Line because your team sucks. Pacan is a prospect that nobody knows and never will know because every team has plenty of them. Salak was traded because you have Jacob freakin Markstrom

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10-20-2011, 01:32 PM
  #50
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So... am I misinterpreting this or are you vilifying Frolik for the same thing that you're praising Skille? Because it sounds like Frolik was getting more minutes than he deserved and was seeing a point increase because of it but Skille somehow escapes that same criticism?

I'm glad that Skille is being given a chance because he didn't get many here in Chicago and I'm glad that Florida fans like this trade. I enjoyed his time here (as a 4th liner) and wish we would've kept him over Stalberg.

That being said, even with Skille's increased playing time, do you expect him to accomplish what Frolik already has at a younger age on a worse team? What about if he was given the same amount of ice time? As it is, Frolik only averaged roughly 3 minutes more per game than Skille is now. Frolik will likely outscore Skille simply because he's a better player and is better defensively to boot. Frolik may only be a 3rd liner here, but he's still expected to put up around 20/20 like he has in the past (and that's perfectly okay with us because we don't expect him to carry the offense like he was somewhat expected to in Florida).

Skille's a fantastic player in the bottom 6 because that's what his natural abilities qualify him for; his lack of IQ in the offensive zone is what prevents him from being overly successful in the top 6 and his tools (speed, physicality, decent shot) are better utilized in the bottom 6. If you haven't realized this yet, you will soon. He fits better in Florida than Frolik does, I suppose... but I have a hard time believing that Skille will accomplish anything more than Frolik has/will, even with an inflated ice-time.
I never praised the trade.

I just acknowledge it for what it is. A very minor trade right now that Blackhawks fans are in love with.

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