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Old
10-21-2011, 06:39 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by zytz View Post
I know I'll get some hate for this but I really wanted Skille to stay. The guy had some good tools, IMO, and I think the only thing he really lacked was puck control. His problem us that his play was so disjointed... he could be good offensively.... his lack of puck control kept him from finishing SO SO SO many times. And he could be good defensively too, but I think he was hungry to get on the stat sheet, and would lose focus in his own end.

He plays sort of scatterbrained... but you can't say the guy doesn't give his all on every shift. If he can ever put it all together he could crack the top 6 on a decent team.
You shouldn't get hate for it. He definitely had traits to his game that were easy to like.

I liked Skille too and wouldn't have minded him staying, but I, along with every Hawk fan out there (including you, it's probaly safe to assume) prefer Frolik and Salak instead

Fantastic trade by Bowman. Along with the Leddy trade (still hard to believe how lopsided that was - look at Cam Barker now), he's made some real nice ones.

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10-21-2011, 10:12 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
1. You have Goc and I like Versteeg, Kopy and Campbell. I watch Panthers games. Skille hasn't improved since he left us

2. It's not our Problem that Frolik was misused in FLA. This guy is a part of our good working PK this year. The numbers back me up here

3. Goc and Bergenheim would be 4th Liners in Chicago, Skille this year a healthy scratch

4. 7.0C > 6.0C
and Pacan is next to nothing. Ask people who Pacan is and I'm, sure 50% of Hawks and Panthers Fans don't know him and the other 50% will tell you that "isn't that the guy that we get in the Frolik Deal?"
1. I don't understand what naming the players proves, but ok.

2. He wasn't misused. He was a guy who many people called Baby Jagr coming out of the draft, and he was expected to produce like the 1st rounder he was. Bad pick (just like Skille was for Chicago).

3. I don't think Bergenheim is a 4th liner on your team, and Goc is only a 4th liner because Bolland is a very good player. On most teams, Goc is a 3rd liner. I'm still not sure why Goc is relevant to the discussion, considering that Skille doesn't even play C.

4. You clearly missed my point.

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10-21-2011, 10:12 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
At the moment, realistically, Frolik is on one of the very elite teams in the NHL. Chicago could very easily be 6-0 right now if not for Kari Lehtonen and a bad third period against Boston.
And six games is a small sample.

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10-21-2011, 10:14 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by swanny View Post
I will try to be. We were eliminated in 7 games by the eventual Western Conference champion after turning over nearly half of our roster due to cap issues and a short summer from winning the Cup. Let's see how we are this year. Weird you win a Cup then you are no longer 'elite'.....whatever the criteria you might use is would be nice to hear.
Pretty sure a lot of the players on that Cup team are no longer in Chicago.

The current team looks a lot more like the team that got eliminated in the 1st round last year than the Stanley Cup winning team. At least on paper.

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10-21-2011, 10:16 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Campbell is reverting back to Buffalo Campbell (And 1st year Hawk)

The final 2 years here his offensive game suffered while his defensive game improved

He is back to neglecting his D and going all out offensively in Florida
If +/- says so, it must be true.

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10-21-2011, 10:19 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Pretty sure a lot of the players on that Cup team are no longer in Chicago.

The current team looks a lot more like the team that got eliminated in the 1st round last year than the Stanley Cup winning team. At least on paper.
You mean Ben Eager, Campbell, Versteeg, and Burish? I will take Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Toews, Kane, Seabs, Hammer, over them every day of the week. The only one I would like back is Ladd. And we are stronger in net now than during the Cup run. Every team evolves and it is important to keep the core and build around it. Stan is doing a great job of that.

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10-21-2011, 10:24 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by swanny View Post
You mean Ben Eager, Campbell, Versteeg, and Burish? I will take Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Toews, Kane, Seabs, Hammer, over them every day of the week. The only one I would like back is Ladd. And we are stronger in net now than during the Cup run. Every team evolves and it is important to keep the core and build around it. Stan is doing a great job of that.
Campbell, Versteeg, Byfuglien, Laad, Brouwer, Kopecky, Niemi, etc.

The team is not exactly the same.

Some players weren't significant, and might have been replaced already (like Crawford has replaced Niemi nicely).

But you can't possibly deny that the first three guys listed, for example, played a significant part in the Hawks winning the Cup that year.

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10-21-2011, 10:51 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Campbell, Versteeg, Byfuglien, Laad, Brouwer, Kopecky, Niemi, etc.

The team is not exactly the same.

Some players weren't significant, and might have been replaced already (like Crawford has replaced Niemi nicely).

But you can't possibly deny that the first three guys listed, for example, played a significant part in the Hawks winning the Cup that year.
Yes some did. But so did the players I mentioned, and Bolland. Like I said, Ladd is the only one of those that was not replaceable. Leddy has been superlative...better than Campbell was so far in these first few games. Bruno plops his ass in front of the net like Buff (and skates the same as Buff). Bickell has been a good Pecker replacement as well. Probably better actually. So you can see, there are many replaceable parts on any team. You don't fall in love and over pay for the fringe players. Something you will eventually experience with your new GM

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10-22-2011, 09:58 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
1. I don't understand what naming the players proves, but ok.

2. He wasn't misused. He was a guy who many people called Baby Jagr coming out of the draft, and he was expected to produce like the 1st rounder he was. Bad pick (just like Skille was for Chicago).

3. I don't think Bergenheim is a 4th liner on your team, and Goc is only a 4th liner because Bolland is a very good player. On most teams, Goc is a 3rd liner. I'm still not sure why Goc is relevant to the discussion, considering that Skille doesn't even play C.

4. You clearly missed my point.
You come out and say we don't watch the games. I tell you that I'm german and you have the german Player Marcel Goc. You also have former Hawks I liked. This is the reason why I actually WATCH your team with Gamecenter. I saw enough of Skille already to see that he hasn't improved since being traded.

Frolik plays good, even without scoring. Right now there is no reason to think that Frolik is a bust. And playing him on the 1st Line is misused.

Bergenheim would be on the 4th Line because he isn't better than that. But I agree, I would play him over Sharp and Hossa.


and Goc is a perfect fit for a 4th Line and C depth. If any Top9 Center will be out you can promote him without some doubts.

I don't missed the point. Salak already has some NHL games and will get more. He has little value. Pacan hasn't played a NHL game and I think it's safe to say he will never play a game in the NHL. I wouldn't even trade a 7th Round pick for him because this pick has more chances to play NHL

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10-22-2011, 10:01 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Campbell, Versteeg, Byfuglien, Laad, Brouwer, Kopecky, Niemi, etc.

The team is not exactly the same.

Some players weren't significant, and might have been replaced already (like Crawford has replaced Niemi nicely).

But you can't possibly deny that the first three guys listed, for example, played a significant part in the Hawks winning the Cup that year.
Campbell was our 5th Dman in the Cup run. Versteeg was OK, but didn't play a significant role like you suggest. Buff, Ladd, were the 2 big loses, no one else was significant.

The most significant contributors in the Cup run are still on our team, with a far better goalie, but I agree, not as deep.

To suggest this team is a 1st round exit type of team, shows you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to evaluating talent. But we already knew that since you don't think Skille is a bust.

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10-22-2011, 04:34 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by swanny View Post
Yes some did. But so did the players I mentioned, and Bolland. Like I said, Ladd is the only one of those that was not replaceable. Leddy has been superlative...better than Campbell was so far in these first few games. Bruno plops his ass in front of the net like Buff (and skates the same as Buff). Bickell has been a good Pecker replacement as well. Probably better actually. So you can see, there are many replaceable parts on any team. You don't fall in love and over pay for the fringe players. Something you will eventually experience with your new GM ;)
The one who brought a Cup to your team.

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10-22-2011, 04:37 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
You come out and say we don't watch the games. I tell you that I'm german and you have the german Player Marcel Goc. You also have former Hawks I liked. This is the reason why I actually WATCH your team with Gamecenter. I saw enough of Skille already to see that he hasn't improved since being traded.

Frolik plays good, even without scoring. Right now there is no reason to think that Frolik is a bust. And playing him on the 1st Line is misused.

Bergenheim would be on the 4th Line because he isn't better than that. But I agree, I would play him over Sharp and Hossa.


and Goc is a perfect fit for a 4th Line and C depth. If any Top9 Center will be out you can promote him without some doubts.

I don't missed the point. Salak already has some NHL games and will get more. He has little value. Pacan hasn't played a NHL game and I think it's safe to say he will never play a game in the NHL. I wouldn't even trade a 7th Round pick for him because this pick has more chances to play NHL
Sorry, I did not realize you were German.

Anyway, Goc is a 3rd line center on most teams (although I agree, not on the Hawks).

You only named 2 LW's who would be ahead of Bergenheim on the depth chart; I was thinking Bergenheim could play on the 3rd in Chicago, but either way, whatever.

And Salak only got NHL games because the Panthers sucked.

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10-22-2011, 04:40 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Campbell was our 5th Dman in the Cup run. Versteeg was OK, but didn't play a significant role like you suggest. Buff, Ladd, were the 2 big loses, no one else was significant.

The most significant contributors in the Cup run are still on our team, with a far better goalie, but I agree, not as deep.

To suggest this team is a 1st round exit type of team, shows you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to evaluating talent. But we already knew that since you don't think Skille is a bust.
What?

How was Campbell your "5th D man" that year?

Also, I never said the Blackhawks were a clear-cut first round exit this year. I'm just saying that that's what they did last year, and that the current team isn't the team that won the Stanley Cup.

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10-22-2011, 05:09 PM
  #89
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Erik...why exactly are you posting here? We are not 'elite' as you say. This will cause an argument on any team board. Especially one where the team is playing fairly well with their core talent from the Cup still in place. Of course out team is not the same 2 years removed form the Cup. What team is?! It may be best for you to go back to the FL board instead of stirring the pot here with people who will never agree with your point of view.

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10-22-2011, 07:35 PM
  #90
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Talon makes another idiotic trade.

Booth, Reinprecht and 2013 3rd rounder for Samuelsson and Sturm

lmao. Sturm is worthless and Samulsson is a UFA after this season. You give up a former 60 point forward for crap. Or was Booth only good because he got so much ice time like Frolik.

Why did Florida add a 3rd rounder? Tallon just likes throwing away assets I guess(like Salak).

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10-22-2011, 08:12 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Talon makes another idiotic trade.

Booth, Reinprecht and 2013 3rd rounder for Samuelsson and Sturm

lmao. Sturm is worthless and Samulsson is a UFA after this season. You give up a former 60 point forward for crap. Or was Booth only good because he got so much ice time like Frolik.

Why did Florida add a 3rd rounder? Tallon just likes throwing away assets I guess(like Salak).
That's the point.

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10-22-2011, 08:17 PM
  #92
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Samulsson blows too. Sturm is a skating stump. I don't think there was a winner in this trade though. Trading pylons.

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10-23-2011, 08:56 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Campbell was our 5th Dman in the Cup run. Versteeg was OK, but didn't play a significant role like you suggest. .
Campbell +11 in playoffs, tops on team along with 20 minutes ice time per game.

Versteeg 6 goals in playoffs including 2 game winners all even strength, pretty significant.

You may now refrain from posting.

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10-23-2011, 09:49 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Talon makes another idiotic trade.

Booth, Reinprecht and 2013 3rd rounder for Samuelsson and Sturm

lmao. Sturm is worthless and Samulsson is a UFA after this season. You give up a former 60 point forward for crap. Or was Booth only good because he got so much ice time like Frolik.

Why did Florida add a 3rd rounder? Tallon just likes throwing away assets I guess(like Salak).
According to TSN, this trade was all about money and Tallon had been pressured to shed Booth's contract who had been on the trading block all season.

Canucks seem to think Booth and Kesler can reunite and be effective.

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10-23-2011, 10:00 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Talon makes another idiotic trade.

Booth, Reinprecht and 2013 3rd rounder for Samuelsson and Sturm

lmao. Sturm is worthless and Samulsson is a UFA after this season. You give up a former 60 point forward for crap. Or was Booth only good because he got so much ice time like Frolik.

Why did Florida add a 3rd rounder? Tallon just likes throwing away assets I guess(like Salak).
Idiotic?

Reinprecht = Huet but cheaper
Booth = Frolik or Horton for them - underachiever and overpaid (for what he brings to them)
they add 2 players that will be UFA after the season and could be dealt at the TD.

this is a pure financial trade for them and nothing else

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10-23-2011, 10:18 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
What?

How was Campbell your "5th D man" that year?

Also, I never said the Blackhawks were a clear-cut first round exit this year. I'm just saying that that's what they did last year, and that the current team isn't the team that won the Stanley Cup.
Erick has validity Campbell was clearly 3rd behind Keith and Seabrook. The loss of Byfuglein was huge a much larger loss than Bowman or any Hawks fan anticipated. Brunette does fill the body in front of the net. Byfuglein was more than a body in front of the net. He could score a break-a-way and also had a wrister or could shoot from the point or lead a rush on occasion. Ladd was under used in Chicago because of the Hawks depth but his skill set is clearly shining now.

Toews won the Conn Smythe because he led the team in points and had the C patch and the Olympics plus an all-star birth. Byfuglein had 3 game winning goals in the playoffs? Byfuglein easily could have won the Conn Smythe had Toews not been the face of the Hawks.

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10-26-2011, 05:26 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Fun fact: Michael Frolik is 3rd for Hawks forwards in short handed ice time, behind only Toews and Bolland.

To say he doesn't do anything when he isn't scoring is just wrong. He has been very defensively responsible since coming here. He certainly is way better than Skille in his own end... at either end in fact.
You have a great point. He's never scoring so he has to be doing something else effective to at least be a good hockey player. If he wasn't a good passer or a good penalty killer etc. he wouldn't be playing because he hasn't been scoring and would'nt be effective. He's not like John Scott, who is close to useless.

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10-26-2011, 06:51 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Campbell +11 in playoffs, tops on team along with 20 minutes ice time per game.

Versteeg 6 goals in playoffs including 2 game winners all even strength, pretty significant.

You may now refrain from posting.
I meant 5th best defensmen, not 5th in avg ice time. Hammer, Keith, and Seabrook were all far better in the playoffs. And I would argue Sopel was more effective than Campbell.

I don't believe in the 'we play like crap w/o Campbell'. He isn't the reason we beat Nashville, the turning point was Kanes PK goal and no one would stop us from there, w/ or w/o him. We were lucky to have Campbell, because he helped us, but I couldn't see anyone stopping us after the Nashville series.

Versteeg hurt us just as much as he helped us in that series. He was decent, but not significant.

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10-26-2011, 06:51 PM
  #99
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Campbell who? Leddy has filled that space quite nicely and is really coming into his own. Just as quick/smooth, great rushing and passing abilities out of our own zone... kid has vision beyond his years. Once he fills out his frame a bit more and has a full year under his belt, I'll have no doubt that he'll start to surpass Campbell sooner rather than later.

Happy that Tallon/Campbell are happy with their situation... and he was truly underrated around these parts (when he was here) because of that contract. However, with the emergence of Leddy and the cap space we got from this trade... I'm not too disappointed.

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10-26-2011, 06:52 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by LandofLincoln View Post
Toews won the Conn Smythe because he led the team in points and had the C patch and the Olympics plus an all-star birth. Byfuglein had 3 game winning goals in the playoffs? Byfuglein easily could have won the Conn Smythe had Toews not been the face of the Hawks.
If Toews had not been the face of the franchise, Chicago would of never been close to sniffing a Cup.

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