Looking at our lineup before the game, and I'm just happy to (as JTG put it i believe) tread water. That game was really exciting for the lack of star power. I would have loved to be there in that atmosphere.
So we know exactly what our lineup looks like, but we still think SOMEHOW a Crosby/Malkin-like play is going to happen? Why are we kidding ourselves with that nonsense?
I really hope our team is healthy too, but they aren't. Sid's on the right path and Orpik/Geno don't look like it will be too long. I empathize with the frustration, but to say we have too many grinders is just dumb. These grinders are the only reason we are in these games. Almost every other NHL team would be losing games left/right w/o their stars. We still fight/scratch/claw our way to the postseason.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I'm not the one who brought up the grinders though. I'm sure some who've said it have out of sheer fan emotional overreaction rather than being on the side that wholeheartedly believes it.
It's going to be one liberating feeling when the starting line up reads
+ Cooke... On loose pucks and got there in mean spirt.
+ Engo... Nice fight to get this team going.
+ Neal... Loved the little move in the high slot before hitting the post. Always giving 100% and I love how he gets open after moving the puck.
- Most of the team came out like a bunch of puff before remembering "grinders gonna grind". Then they start taking bad PIMs to keep themselves in a hole.
- Making the worst defensive team in hockey look like the 70's Habs.
- Beat to loose pucks most of the game. The Pens have looked ultra slow for 2 games now.
-How many times will we see net presence right on top of the goalie and rebounds bounce past the Pens players?
- How many great saves does Flower have to make a game for this "great" defensive team?
- I think Zib might be a slow starter.
The Caps will be a serious threat this year.. I think you are in for a rude awakening. Tons of solid moves and adding Vokoun makes them that much more dangerous.
Thank you for missing my entire point. Now what if their top 2 players went down AND a couple role players did, too. You seem to think all skill player teams have a better chance if that's the case, right?
Um, I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.
Point was 5 million could be spent worse.
The #3 Dman on many teams seem to be in the contract drivers seat. Except, Martins agent must have had some dirty pic's of someone...cause he is paid like #1 but produces and plays like #4.
Even without Sid and Geno, it's simply pathetic that this team can only manage to score 1 goal against a very awful Jets team. That's why folks are frustrated.
If you look at our roster and theirs, the Jets are SUPPOSED to be better than we are. nevermind being 0-3-0 before this game. Roster-wise, it is an improved version of last years Atlanta and they were fighting to get into the playoffs until the end.
Yet they had to be lucky to win (heresay, I didn't watch).
With Sid, Malkin, Kennedy and Orpik out, that's app. 22 million off the cap on a team that has no young top drawer talents on cheap ELCs. That means that unless for injuries, exactly 0 teams in the league ice a cheaper group. Correlation between $ and quality obviously does exist to some extent.
So.... pathetic? What is pathetic is if we are not able to pick our moments to disparage this team. Right now obviously isn't the time. Right now every point we get is a bonus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius
The way this team is structured, our offense goes in complete shut down mode if Sid/Geno go down. Do most teams in the NHL completely shutdown without their 2 best players in the lineup?
You cannot compare to most teams because hardly anyone have comparable combo's/cap-hits. But yes, I don't see the Caps being much if both AO and Backstrom are out. Don't see Detroit being much without Dats and Zetterberg. Don't see Chicago being much without Toews and Kane. Don't see Vancouver being much without the Sedin's. Don't see Philly being much without Giroux and Briere. Don't see Boston being much with Krejci added to Savard on the injured list. Don't see Tampa being much without St.Louis and Stamkos. Etc. Then add that we are even deprived of Jeffrey to make it three of our top4 C's being out. Hardly anyone can deal with that when the two top ones are also the best Cs in the league.
Last edited by Tender Rip: 10-18-2011 at 12:27 AM.
+ park - played a really great game all around, what a smart pickup by Shero - defensively/offensively a ridiculous deal at his price.
+ asham - thought he played quite solid, obviously nothing huge but just looked good out there, i think that beagle fight situation has put some extra coal into his fire. he's got a ridiculously mean one timer and slapshot, just waiting for him to start firing back a couple any game now.
+ engo - really taking shape this season and proving he deserves a spot on the roster. playing smart and doing an incredible job in orps absense. nice lil' fight as well vs a bigger dude
- letestu - last year i was stoked when we signed him to the 1-way deal. this year, i'm heavy on believing we should waive him when we get a couple guys back. i'd rather see a handful of WBS out there than him. he just looks like he ate doritos on the offseason and hardly cares anymore. he gets opportunities to make plays and skate and do something but just seems to fail overall.
- lovejoy - some really bad plays, he just continues to not impress both defensively and offensively. so anxious for orps to get back. again, i'd actually rather see a couple WBS guys in this spot than Lovejoy.
...whose contract is about half the reason why so much of the roster is filled with 'grinders'. Evgeni Malkin's contract is the other half of the reason.
I'm sick of hearing about this strawman roster that some of you have built up in your heads - this fantasy roster that is potent even when Sid and Geno are injured. It doesn't exist.
Shero's job is to fill all of the team's needs to include keeping the team stocked with players who are capable of grinding out those tough wins and no reasonable fan can blame him if the grinders are healthy when the skill players are not.
It is not his job to entertain the ADD addled brains of "I wanna go fast!" types of fans.
-Our schedule. After tomorrow's game, the Pens will have played 8 games already. Teams like Winnipeg, the Isles, and Toronto have played 4. This many games to start the season doesn't help when we're also going through these injury issues.
+ our schedule. Guess who is done playing West Coast road games after tomorrow?
Wait, retaining two generational talents can lead to a top-heavy payroll that sacrifices depth? Is that what we're still hung up about?
I'm sure the people this frustrated by our lacking our scoring without Malkin and Crosby wouldn't even be fans of hockey if they lived in Nashville.
Also give Pavelec credit. He's been garbage up to this point this season and has always been poised to break out. He made at least 3 saves when our players had the puck alone in front of him. Getting any of those goals could have changed the pace of the game but he stood tall when Winnipeg's defense blew their coverage.
Park looks like he can still play. I'm pleasantly surprised by that. Just sucks he can't finish unless his shot hits the post and then bounces in off a D-Man. I guess you could say that about most of our lineup right now though.
Getting Crosby and Malkin back will ease the load on our defense a lot, imo. It's hard to keep great players like 87 and 71 out of the offensive zone. We'll be spending even more time in the other team's end when they return. Not saying we haven't spent a lot of time in the offensive zone already, but it will obviously increase when those 2 get back and that will certainly help.
People say Martin gets paid like a #1 D-Man. Does he? Maybe we were spoiled having Gonchar playing like one for 5 million/per all those years, but I think a real #1 D-Man costs a lot more. Martin brings everything except a huge shot and big hits. He would be a #1 D-Man if he could do those two things, but he also would have cost 7 to 8 million/per instead of 5.
Jordan Staal against Edmonton and Winnipeg (two of the worst teams in the NHL)
2GP 0G 0A -1 2SOG
Not saying.... just sayin'. If you think he's a #1 center then that is fine, but the stats tell a completely different story.
Staal against Vancouver and Buffalo, two of the best teams in the league:
2GP, 1 G, 1A, +2 5SOG
Hey look! I can have fun with small sample sizes too!!! By your logic he must be one of the best centers in the league with numbers like that against those two teams!
+The team hustles and trying to make the best of the situation. Its not like they arent giving all they got....
- im getting sick of ppl whining. its the Pittsburgh Penguins. Not the "corsby & Malkin penguins". I bet that if sid were to never come back form the concussion 40% of the "fans" here would stop cheering for the pens :/
I'm just not feeling any pluses lately. Not because I think everyone played poorly, I just find it hard to sit here and say so and so had a "good" game when we put up a turd like this, I don't care who's hurt. I would say Fleury was good.
Even: Michalek blew a tire but then made a great diving stick check along with being the only one to put one in.
- Lovejoy had a bad game.
- Letang turned the puck over and didn't look as fast as usual. Plus, what's with him being immune to rushing the puck when Crosby and Malkin are hurt? It's like he cuts his game in half when they're out. I'm sure some will argue why that is and maybe even why it's a good thing, but sorry I don't see it.
- Martin continues to have a less than $5 million year. He's a nice defenseman, that's it. His price tag is what makes people feel like they have to gush over him more than anything else. Sure he has his share of good games, but (broken record time) I'm still trying to find another $5 million defenseman in the league who can't shoot, isn't physical, and is only on the power play because the team doesn't have anyone else.
- Kunitz is not only impotent offensively but he also takes bad penalties now. Nice.
- No finish. Yeah we had some close calls, but one or two more have to go IN THE NET.
- The first period was basically the game and not just because of the Jets goals. They simply outplayed us and looked like they wanted it more for the first 20 minutes and THAT is why the goals came.
- I'm not the biggest Tangradi fan but here's another reason a goon on the roster is pointless: We need all the offensive help we can get so we put a goon in there? At least give a young guy a shot. Maybe it was a travel issue.
- I think with this 'meh' lineup is when Bylsma's system is most needed. They haven't played it the last two games. I don't see a lot of hustle and buzz in the corners and they've been turning the puck over in their own end a lot.
I was watching the Toronto-Aves game and Komisarek blew a tire on almost the exact same play. I thought I was watching instant replay when Michalek went down. It happens to the best of them but 8 seconds in really helped the Jets get it going.
