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Phoenix XL - Rich Man's World

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Old
12-05-2011, 09:06 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Bob1321 View Post
garylawless gary lawless
One governor told us heading into meeting - "Phoenix isn't going anywhere. There's no where for them to go." #winnipegjets

They want to kill the rumours
I tend to believe that. Unless the Keebler Elves are affecting massive reno's to the Colisee' in the dead of night unbeknown to all I dont see it happening. Or is the Colisee' infact "NHL Ready" and everything Ive read saying it isnt all part of another Conspiracy Theory?.

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For the love of PETE people, can we PLEASE try to maintain a little understanding about the difference between "professional" and "Major League"?!?!?

What they lack is not PROFESSIONAL sports, but MAJOR LEAGUE sports. It makes a freaking difference, people -- let's TRY to be accurate here. It's not that hard.
Sure thing. And when new owners Celine Dion & her Octogenarian Husband of your Las Vegas Bandits drop the puck on the first MAJOR LEAGUE NHL Game at their "temporary" home of the MGM next October, I too hope everyone will finally stop with the misnomers...

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12-05-2011, 09:12 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
I tend to believe that. Unless the Keebler Elves are affecting massive reno's to the Colisee' in the dead of night unbeknown to all I dont see it happening. Or is the Colisee' infact "NHL Ready" and everything Ive read saying it isnt all part of another Conspiracy Theory?.
.
Well it was good enough in 2008 for the IIHF world championship, tv wise its still good enough for HBO/Showtime Primetime boxing,its good enough to host rock shows( in nov they had james blunt, judas priest...., cirque du soleil is coming for a week in january , disney on ice, junior hockey its not state of the art but its not falling apart either.

2-3 months will be more than enough to get it to nhl standards(may-june -july-august)

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12-05-2011, 09:18 PM
  #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I actually believe that as of this moment, there is nowhere for them to go.


Like GHOST mentioned above and I mentioned earlier, Atlanta may have caught some people by surprise, but those of us who entertained the rumors that just wouldn't go away when coupled to an active upgrading of MTS and owners we KNEW were waiting for a team and who had the MONEY, no, no surprise at all.

None of that is happening at the moment, and I don't know that QC can be ready that soon.


With regard to Vegas? Seriously. The economy is in worse shape than Phoenix, and you have to import Hollywood types to find an owner. Why anyone in the NHL ever thought Vegas was a good idea in before the economy fell apart will remain as one of the great mysteries of the universe.

Futhermore, if KC had an owner lined up, Winnipeg wouldn't have a team right now. AEG would have seen to that.
LV has a team, the Wranglers, who play in the Orleans Arena, and there would go another market off that ECHL RADAR, something I don't think that league needs or wants to have happen after struggling to stay afloat despite adding SF/Orlando for 2012/13....

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12-05-2011, 09:39 PM
  #929
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To be fair, Gary Lawless also said the bonds in Glendale would sell.



I don't believe for one second that there is no landing spot for a portable NHL franchise. In fact, I'd be willing to bet my vCash on it !


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12-05-2011, 09:43 PM
  #930
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I think this quote from Daly today is telling:

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NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly gave the governors an update on the Coyotes situation. “There’s really nothing new to report other than we are continuing discussions with a couple of potentially interested purchasers,” Daly said. “The goal continues to be [to find an owner willing to keep the team in Phoenix].”
The purchasers are no longer interested; they are potentially interested.

They're moving folks.

From the Globe & Mail: NHL governors approve four-conference format

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12-05-2011, 09:47 PM
  #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandR View Post
I think this quote from Daly today is telling:



The purchasers are no longer interested; they are potentially interested.

They're moving folks.

From the Globe & Mail: NHL governors approve four-conference format
and wht if there is a new owner committed to Glendale, as Daly suggests..... nothing changes

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12-05-2011, 09:55 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
I tend to believe that. Unless the Keebler Elves are affecting massive reno's to the Colisee' in the dead of night unbeknown to all I dont see it happening. Or is the Colisee' infact "NHL Ready" and everything Ive read saying it isnt all part of another Conspiracy Theory?.


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the Colisee is every bit NHL ready as the Cow Palace was, as the Civic Centre was.
you picking up what im laying down here?


Last edited by Fugu: 12-05-2011 at 09:57 PM. Reason: knock it off
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12-05-2011, 10:12 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by mcguire4 View Post
the Colisee is every bit NHL ready as the Cow Palace was, as the Civic Centre was....
you picking up what im laying down here?
Yupper. No problems with my comprehension skills. Colisee's very close to being turnkey. I diggit.


Last edited by Killion: 12-05-2011 at 10:19 PM. Reason: Typo;
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12-05-2011, 10:13 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I actually believe that as of this moment, there is nowhere for them to go.


Like GHOST mentioned above and I mentioned earlier, Atlanta may have caught some people by surprise, but those of us who entertained the rumors that just wouldn't go away when coupled to an active upgrading of MTS and owners we KNEW were waiting for a team and who had the MONEY, no, no surprise at all.

None of that is happening at the moment, and I don't know that QC can be ready that soon.
Quebec City is ready. Keep in mind the Colisee used to host an NHL team. Quebecor knows this is their chance. The work done to MTS Centre was mainly to the press boxes. Colisee needs upgrades to the players dressing rooms, etc., from what I understand. The new arena will be ready in 2015. Colisee is better than a lot of temporary arenas the NHL has used in the past in such situations.

Quote:

Futhermore, if KC had an owner lined up, Winnipeg wouldn't have a team right now. AEG would have seen to that.
No, I don't agree with that. It's kind of a hypothetical and moot point though. There was no owner. I wonder why?

Sure AEG is influential, but I don't think for a moment the NHL would have placed a team in a market like KC after all that has happened recently with franchise instability in similar markets - especially not after preventing Balsillie from "making it 7." Canada was due an NHL team basically and Winnipeg was the first in line. On top of that, someone like Thomson is not exactly without any power and influence. He financed the purchase of the Montreal Canadiens by the Molson family. He was a long time part owner of the TMLs and TSN, a present owner of the Globe and Mail, etc.

[Edit: Kind of OT, but did you know that KC recently had one of their major hockey rinks repositioned as a indoor basketball and volley ball facility, effectively reducing their very limited hockey facilities by some 40%? Not much of a hockey market.]


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12-05-2011, 10:22 PM
  #935
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AEG Conflict of interest?

why is Tim Leiweke in charge of the relocation committee, when AEG Manages arenas including Kansas City's Sprint Center, but also creates a conflict when there's the LA Kings, and is there such a perception with any arena managed by Global Spectrum because of its association w/ Comcast and other businesses....

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12-05-2011, 10:28 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by MAROONSRoad View Post
No, I don't agree with that.

Sure AEG is influential, but I don't think for a moment the NHL would have placed a team in a market like KC after all that has happened recently with franchise instability. Especially not after preventing Balsillie from "making it 7." Canada was due an NHL team basically and Winnipeg was the first in line. On top of that, someone like Thomson is not exactly without any power and influence. He financed the purchase of the Montreal Canadiens by the Molson family. He was a long time part owner of the TMLs and TSN, a present owner of the Globe and Mail, etc.
AEG had Boots lined up well before Chipman et al. came on the scene. However, just like Winnipeg, many BOG members were not convinced it was the 'right' thing to do. Let's assume that JB hadn't come on the scene at all, I think AEG would have greased some skids as soon as there was a sign that a team needed to be moved. The question is would Chipman have put things together soon enough (absent JB's efforts), and would the focus have been put on the league that eventually led them to reconsider their position on the viability of some Canadian markets.

It's hard to know because Balsillie's actions did have a ripple effect, imo.


Edit: IF Quebec City has an arena and owner ready to go by next Fall, maybe this can happen. Honestly though, I'm not as convinced about this being the best move as I was with Winnipeg. It's not a shot at any group or province, but it's right there under all our noses (GTA).

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12-05-2011, 10:34 PM
  #937
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AEG had Boots lined up well before Chipman et al. came on the scene. However, just like Winnipeg, many BOG members were not convinced it was the 'right' thing to do. Let's assume that JB hadn't come on the scene at all, I think AEG would have greased some skids as soon as there was a sign that a team needed to be moved. The question is would Chipman have put things together soon enough (absent JB's efforts), and would the focus have been put on the league that eventually led them to reconsider their position on the viability of some Canadian markets.

It's hard to know because Balsillie's actions did have a ripple effect, imo.


Edit: IF Quebec City has an arena and owner ready to go by next Fall, maybe this can happen. Honestly though, I'm not as convinced about this being the best move as I was with Winnipeg. It's not a shot at any group or province, but it's right there under all our noses (GTA).
the NHL has stated numerous times already that the GTA is a league oppurtunity. so a relocation there is not ever gonna happen. expansion is the only way the GTA gets a team.

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12-05-2011, 10:36 PM
  #938
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I tend to believe that. Unless the Keebler Elves are affecting massive reno's to the Colisee' in the dead of night unbeknown to all I dont see it happening. Or is the Colisee' infact "NHL Ready" and everything Ive read saying it isnt all part of another Conspiracy Theory?.
.
Those elves are hard workers, don't count them out.

Considering what the Flames 1st played in when they went to Calgary, the Colisee is more than adequate as a temporary home.

If they can't be bought and nobody is willing to pick up the tab to keep running them in Glendale, they are moving somewhere.... Just not southern Ontario.

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12-05-2011, 10:42 PM
  #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
AEG had Boots lined up well before Chipman et al. came on the scene. However, just like Winnipeg, many BOG members were not convinced it was the 'right' thing to do. Let's assume that JB hadn't come on the scene at all, I think AEG would have greased some skids as soon as there was a sign that a team needed to be moved. The question is would Chipman have put things together soon enough (absent JB's efforts), and would the focus have been put on the league that eventually led them to reconsider their position on the viability of some Canadian markets.

It's hard to know because Balsillie's actions did have a ripple effect, imo.


Edit: IF Quebec City has an arena and owner ready to go by next Fall, maybe this can happen. Honestly though, I'm not as convinced about this being the best move as I was with Winnipeg. It's not a shot at any group or province, but it's right there under all our noses (GTA).
Had JB Not inserted himself into Pittsburgh (before the Casino vote which created CONSOL Energy Center); the aborted Nashville Predators, fiasco/debacle, then the Coyotes' BK, would we be further along in deciding where the Coyotes eventually land?

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12-05-2011, 10:50 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by MAROONSRoad View Post
Quebec City is ready. Keep in mind the Colisee used to host an NHL team. Quebecor knows this is their chance. The work done to MTS Centre was mainly to the press boxes. Colisee needs upgrades to the players dressing rooms, etc., from what I understand. The new arena will be ready in 2015. Colisee is better than a lot of temporary arenas the NHL has used in the past in such situations.



No, I don't agree with that. It's kind of a hypothetical and moot point though. There was no owner. I wonder why?

Sure AEG is influential, but I don't think for a moment the NHL would have placed a team in a market like KC after all that has happened recently with franchise instability in similar markets - especially not after preventing Balsillie from "making it 7." Canada was due an NHL team basically and Winnipeg was the first in line. On top of that, someone like Thomson is not exactly without any power and influence. He financed the purchase of the Montreal Canadiens by the Molson family. He was a long time part owner of the TMLs and TSN, a present owner of the Globe and Mail, etc.

[Edit: Kind of OT, but did you know that KC recently had one of their major hockey rinks repositioned as a indoor basketball and volley ball facility, effectively reducing their very limited hockey facilities by some 40%? Not much of a hockey market.]


I think f/k/a GHOST is hitting all the likely nails on the head.


We will see what is going on in due time, but I do feel the Coyotes are running out of time. If 2012 is inching ever so closely, and there are still "ongoing discussions with potential owners" for the Coyotes, I don't feel the chances of the Yotes staying in Phoenix beyond this season are particularly high.

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12-05-2011, 10:52 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
AEG had Boots lined up well before Chipman et al. came on the scene. However, just like Winnipeg, many BOG members were not convinced it was the 'right' thing to do. Let's assume that JB hadn't come on the scene at all, I think AEG would have greased some skids as soon as there was a sign that a team needed to be moved. The question is would Chipman have put things together soon enough (absent JB's efforts), and would the focus have been put on the league that eventually led them to reconsider their position on the viability of some Canadian markets.

It's hard to know because Balsillie's actions did have a ripple effect, imo.


Edit: IF Quebec City has an arena and owner ready to go by next Fall, maybe this can happen. Honestly though, I'm not as convinced about this being the best move as I was with Winnipeg. It's not a shot at any group or province, but it's right there under all our noses (GTA).
Hindsight and all that... it is hard to know what would have happened.

The one thing is that Chipman approached the NHL back as far as when Pittsburgh was having troubles, to see about bringing an NHL team to Winnipeg. TNSE didn't wake up one morning after seeing what was going on in Phoenix and say, let's get that team. They were politely asking the NHL for a number of years before Basillie got Moyes to claim BK. This flies in the face of those Phoenix fans that think Winnipeg was trying to "poach" thier team, but Chipman has had a long relationship with Bettman about getting a team.

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12-05-2011, 10:57 PM
  #942
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Hindsight and all that... it is hard to know what would have happened.

The one thing is that Chipman approached the NHL back as far as when Pittsburgh was having troubles, to see about bringing an NHL team to Winnipeg. TNSE didn't wake up one morning after seeing what was going on in Phoenix and say, let's get that team. They were politely asking the NHL for a number of years before Basillie got Moyes to claim BK. This flies in the face of those Phoenix fans that think Winnipeg was trying to "poach" thier team, but Chipman has had a long relationship with Bettman about getting a team.
Well said


Also, it is worth mentioning, to continue your train of thought; the mayor of Quebec City did not just start courting the NHL last year either

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12-05-2011, 11:11 PM
  #943
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AEG had Boots lined up well before Chipman et al. came on the scene. However, just like Winnipeg, many BOG members were not convinced it was the 'right' thing to do. Let's assume that JB hadn't come on the scene at all, I think AEG would have greased some skids as soon as there was a sign that a team needed to be moved. The question is would Chipman have put things together soon enough (absent JB's efforts), and would the focus have been put on the league that eventually led them to reconsider their position on the viability of some Canadian markets.

It's hard to know because Balsillie's actions did have a ripple effect, imo.
Chipman first approached Bettman at the Salt Lake Olympics. After the lockout there were further discussions. TNSE was invited to make a presentation on returning the NHL to Winnipeg to the BOGs in NYC in January 2007 -- about 5 years ago. Apparently they made a very good impression.

Quote:
Edit: IF Quebec City has an arena and owner ready to go by next Fall, maybe this can happen. Honestly though, I'm not as convinced about this being the best move as I was with Winnipeg. It's not a shot at any group or province, but it's right there under all our noses (GTA).
Why not both? It is ridiculous that there aren't more teams in southern Ontario which has a population of over 13 million people and one NHL team. The area has the largest concentration of NHL fans in the world by far. Basically, that means there are many people that will never get the opportunity to attend an NHL game in their home market. This is at the same time that NHL franchises in some 'non-traditional' markets can't give away tickets. That's the bizarro world of the NHL.

If the southern Ontario market was in the USA, the BOG would have forced additional teams into the area long ago in order to improve US TV ratings. Instead, since it's a Canadian market they go along with the Leafs and Sabres in protecting the Leafs' monopoly.


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12-05-2011, 11:14 PM
  #944
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Those elves are hard workers, don't count them out.
I dont. Im Irish & believe in the Wee People. And sure, the Sharks & the Cow Palace etc. I think the thing thats a little disquieting, at least to me with respect to QC & Phoenix is the utter silence coming from either field. Not even a cricket chirping. Youd think something, anything would be coming from la belle province...

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12-05-2011, 11:24 PM
  #945
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garylawless gary lawless
One governor told us heading into meeting - "Phoenix isn't going anywhere. There's no where for them to go." #winnipegjets


They want to kill the rumours
That made my BS meter go off the chart. MOD

Let's look, shall we?

Phoenix to Quebec City or Hamilton or the GTA or Hartford.... Pacific drops to 7 and the Canada/Florida division increases to 8. Easy.

Phoenix to Seattle or Las Vegas or Portland.... Pacific stays the same, no need to realign.

Phoenix to Kansas City or Houston.... either Dallas joins the Pacific or Columbus, Detroit, or Nashville move to one of the eastern conferences.

Boom, just covered pretty much every single proposed relocation candidate, even the joke ones. Realignment would be easy in pretty much all those scenarios.

They just don't want to flat out and say that this plan is obviously built with the contingency that Phoenix could move as they still want butts in the seats down there for the rest of the season, especially as there's a very willing buyer in Quebec City that wants a team and is on good terms with the NHL.


Last edited by Fugu: 12-06-2011 at 12:02 PM. Reason: generalized flame
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12-05-2011, 11:25 PM
  #946
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I dont. Im Irish & believe in the Wee People. And sure, the Sharks & the Cow Palace etc. I think the thing thats a little disquieting, at least to me with respect to QC & Phoenix is the utter silence coming from either field. Not even a cricket chirping. Youd think something, anything would be coming from la belle province...
Actually there is some noise -- mainly rumours -- coming out of Quebec, mostly in French language obviously. It reminds me of what occurred wrt Winnipeg, where the potential ownership group and the NHL said next to nothing. But the much larger point: you think they are building a $400 million arena for the Remparts and the Shrine Circus?

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12-05-2011, 11:25 PM
  #947
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I dont. Im Irish & believe in the Wee People. And sure, the Sharks & the Cow Palace etc. I think the thing thats a little disquieting, at least to me with respect to QC & Phoenix is the utter silence coming from either field. Not even a cricket chirping. Youd think something, anything would be coming from la belle province...
Those in the know in Quebec City are probably following the Winnipeg relocation example (silence is golden) as opposed to the gong show that was the Balsillie, Hamilton, Copps Coliseum fiasco.

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12-05-2011, 11:45 PM
  #948
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That made my BS meter go off the chart. Anyone with half a brain cell could see how insanely easy it would be for realignment to take place if there was a relocation under the new system.

Let's look, shall we?

Phoenix to Quebec City or Hamilton or the GTA or Hartford.... Pacific drops to 7 and the Canada/Florida division increases to 8. Easy.

Phoenix to Seattle or Las Vegas or Portland.... Pacific stays the same, no need to realign.

Phoenix to Kansas City or Houston.... either Dallas joins the Pacific or Columbus, Detroit, or Nashville move to one of the eastern conferences.

Boom, just covered pretty much every single proposed relocation candidate, even the joke ones. Realignment would be easy in pretty much all those scenarios.

They just don't want to flat out and say that this plan is obviously built with the contingency that Phoenix could move as they still want butts in the seats down there for the rest of the season, especially as there's a very willing buyer in Quebec City that wants a team and is on good terms with the NHL.
What is most curious is that the current realignment plan has 14 teams in the East and 16 teams in the West. Strange considering that there are a few teams that very much want to get out of the West and move to the East. It also makes little sense to have two 8 team divisions in the West and two 7 team divisions in the East. However, if you move PHX to the East, you can have a 7 and 8 team division in both East and West.

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12-05-2011, 11:48 PM
  #949
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What is most curious is that the current realignment plan has 14 teams in the East and 16 teams in the West. Strange considering that there are a few teams that very much want to get out of the West and move to the East. It also makes little sense to have two 8 team divisions in the West and two 7 team divisions in the East. However, if you move PHX to the East, you can have a 7 and 8 team division in both East and West.
Exactly. The simple fact that there are two teams that want to get out of the West but neither did seems to strengthen the idea that the NHL has accepted the fact that another team from the west will be moving east relatively soon.

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12-05-2011, 11:49 PM
  #950
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garylawless gary lawless
One governor told us heading into meeting - "Phoenix isn't going anywhere. There's no where for them to go." #winnipegjets
I have a feeling Mark Chipman is just towing the company line.

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