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Phoenix XL - Rich Man's World

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Old
10-25-2011, 01:44 PM
  #176
cheswick
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I've been meaning to ask this but always forget. Rebecca Sanders who used to cover the whole Coyortes sale proceedings for the Arizona Republic was interviewed on Winnipeg radio when the Jets were palying in Glendale.

Anyway she mentioned that the current deal between the NHL and Glendale doesn't have the Dec 31st stipulation that was included in the first $25 million loss coverage arena management deal. Is this accurate? If so is there a date given in which the NHL is free to sell to a relocation partner?

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10-25-2011, 01:50 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
This wouldn't be the first time that a team likely to be relocated saw fans stay away in droves. The same thing happened to the Houston Oilers of the NFL.
Apples and Oranges IMO.

One fan base knew for fact that they had lost their team.

Should this fans base not be fighting tooth and nail to save it?

Would it also be fair to point out the vast difference in ticket prices? Oils vs Yotes.

Frankly, it's time for the fans to step up and earn the right to keep this team.

2 years of 100 point caliber hockey at a GREAT price point. What more can fairly be asked for?

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Old
10-25-2011, 02:07 PM
  #178
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Attendance is actually up from last year so it is hard to say. I have season tickets so the parking pass is added. I think I pay something like $10 a game, but I park in the garage right next to the stadium.

I wasn't making excuses for attendance. I was just stating the reality that the ownership issue, for better or for worse, has driven fans away and even die hard fans are starting to fall off the wagon. People will buy tickets when the playoff push comes along, but only guys like me hang in, but I am as much a hockey fan as a Coyote fan.

I believe the team is getting the parking for Coyote games.

Hey goyotes, I am wondering if maybe you can point me to a link, or some numbers in regards to ticket sales/attendance numbers for this years Coyotes.

http://stats.sports.theglobeandmail.....aspx?team=141


I am unable to find any kind of "offiical" figures... Not sure if they (numbers) are out there and I can't find them, or I'm not looking in the right areas.

I only ask because I keep hearing that the numbers are up, just wondering how many are "new" season tickets.

After three games in 10/11 season, the Coyotes av/attendance was 12,274
After three games in 11/12 season, the Coyotes av/attendance is 11,770

Being that the first game LAST year was away (12,990 attendance), if I add the NEXT three games total, I get 32,020. (gm2: 17,125, gm3: 6,706, gm4: 8,189)

This year: Gm1: 17,132, Gm2: 11,051, Gm3: 7,128 = 35,311

Difference being 3,291. Are THOSE "new" season tix holders?

Not trying to ruffle feathers, only wondering about possible numbers as they related to higher/lower attendance. Thanks.


Last edited by ur almost right: 10-25-2011 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Added link.
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10-25-2011, 02:44 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but attendence didn't improve in Winnipeg when it was announced the Jets may relocate. Different situation I agree. But the effect is not unexpected. I do agree with the conclusion, however, that not enough die-hard fans exist to pull the Coyotes through and convince an owner to snap this team up. However, if that were the case, the Coyotes wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Doesn't matter the sport or the location IMO.

Publically state that a team might be moving.... attendance will drop.
Publically state that you don't know what's going to happen for 3 seasons.... attendance will drop more
Publically state that there is a better than 50/50 chance a team might be moving.... attendance will really drop
Publically state that a team is moving.... other than the die-hards that want to say goodbye, attendance will plummet.

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10-25-2011, 02:50 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by ur almost right View Post
Hey goyotes, I am wondering if maybe you can point me to a link, or some numbers in regards to ticket sales/attendance numbers for this years Coyotes.

http://stats.sports.theglobeandmail.....aspx?team=141


I am unable to find any kind of "offiical" figures... Not sure if they (numbers) are out there and I can't find them, or I'm not looking in the right areas.

I only ask because I keep hearing that the numbers are up, just wondering how many are "new" season tickets.

After three games in 10/11 season, the Coyotes av/attendance was 12,274
After three games in 11/12 season, the Coyotes av/attendance is 11,770

Being that the first game LAST year was away (12,990 attendance), if I add the NEXT three games total, I get 32,020. (gm2: 17,125, gm3: 6,706, gm4: 8,189)

This year: Gm1: 17,132, Gm2: 11,051, Gm3: 7,128 = 35,311

Difference being 3,291. Are THOSE "new" season tix holders?

Not trying to ruffle feathers, only wondering about possible numbers as they related to higher/lower attendance. Thanks.
I would have to look at the days, but to start the season, most games are during the week. Not a lot of weekend games in the first 10 home games or so. I think last year they weighted heavy on weekend games which would have helped attendance.

I don't have anything official, but I think an estimation of maybe 750 more season ticket holders is not off by too much. They finished last year around, what, 11,000 average attendance and an estimated STH base of around 4,000. I think if they would be happy if ownership still hangs in the balance and they are averaging 500 or so more a game by January.

One thing I will say is I believe the average price paid for a ticket is likely higher this year. They are doing a big give away for kids under 9 for the game on the 29th as a Halloween promotion, but not so many free tickets as in the past. And, the team is actually marketing the product this year, which had not been done for about two years until the new campaign (which is good IMO) began this month.

All in all, the gains are very modest and could be lost entirely if the Coyotes get off to a very weak start. Unlike many "experts", I actually think they will compete for the final playoff spot this year. Losing Bryz wasn't the end of the world.

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Old
10-25-2011, 04:34 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
If so is there a date given in which the NHL is free to sell to a relocation partner?
Thats a very good question cheswick. I dont know that these eyes can stand or take another layer to the onion that seems to be the AMUL signed between the NHL & Glendale back in May. Prolly best left to a legal mind.... thing is though, where & when?. Plenty of spokes in that rumor wheel. From Tacoma to Houston to QC. I dont even wanna think about it.

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10-25-2011, 04:38 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but attendence didn't improve in Winnipeg when it was announced the Jets may relocate.
It was never announced that they may relocate.

There were public discussions that ownership would soon need a new arena & deal from the city.

It was however announced that they would relocate following one final season.

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10-25-2011, 05:24 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Doesn't matter the sport or the location IMO.

Publically state that a team might be moving.... attendance will drop.
Publically state that you don't know what's going to happen for 3 seasons.... attendance will drop more
Publically state that there is a better than 50/50 chance a team might be moving.... attendance will really drop
Publically state that a team is moving.... other than the die-hards that want to say goodbye, attendance will plummet.
Why doesn't the NHL state that the team only won't move if people start attending games?

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Old
10-25-2011, 06:27 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
I don't mean this as an excuse, but I can say, for better or for worse, that there will not be any "imporovement" in attendence until the team has an owner. And I really don't think after three years of uncertainty, and no resolution in sight, after many false starts, that people should be looking for some change in attendence. Even the die hard fans have reached fatigue with this situation.

Again, it is not an excuse, but until the ownership issue is resolved, the Coyotes will never gain traction in this market again. And, I will go further to say that not just any owner will do. The owner that comes in is going to have to repair the relationship the Coyotes have with the former fans base. The owner is also going to have to do a lot of selling to a new potential fan base.
goyotes, as you say, you're pretty level headed about all of this. Some Coyotes fans here are quite defensive when deficiencies are pointed out (I don't blame them, I can understand someone wanting to find hope), you're honest enough to admit that you're following what's by your own admission a doomed team.

So... given the current situation, what would you rather see (in terms of long term success for the NHL in AZ)? With trying to pre-empt, I guess there's five basic possibilities - but if you have something else in mind, I'd love to hear it.

- Yotes stay & try to sort out their mess
- Yotes move, another team relocates into PHX, Yotes 2.0
- Yotes move, another team relocates into PHX, adopts a new identity
- Yotes move, expansion franchise becomes Yotes 2.0
- Yotes move, expansion franchise with a new identity

I ask because I'm inclined to think that a new identity would be a good thing, simply because of the "baggage" associated with the Coyotes now. But I'm interested in the view from within.

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Old
10-26-2011, 01:29 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
I would have to look at the days, but to start the season, most games are during the week. Not a lot of weekend games in the first 10 home games or so. I think last year they weighted heavy on weekend games which would have helped attendance.

I don't have anything official, but I think an estimation of maybe 750 more season ticket holders is not off by too much. They finished last year around, what, 11,000 average attendance and an estimated STH base of around 4,000. I think if they would be happy if ownership still hangs in the balance and they are averaging 500 or so more a game by January.

One thing I will say is I believe the average price paid for a ticket is likely higher this year. They are doing a big give away for kids under 9 for the game on the 29th as a Halloween promotion, but not so many free tickets as in the past. And, the team is actually marketing the product this year, which had not been done for about two years until the new campaign (which is good IMO) began this month.

All in all, the gains are very modest and could be lost entirely if the Coyotes get off to a very weak start. Unlike many "experts", I actually think they will compete for the final playoff spot this year. Losing Bryz wasn't the end of the world.

I got in late, and I appreciate the reply goyotes. And I will expand on this a little more tomorrow. I am now MORE in wonder of the "increased attendance" after the 6,900 or so in Glendale tonight.

Like I said, I got in late, and really didn't check all the numbers from tonight.

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Old
10-26-2011, 09:55 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I've been meaning to ask this but always forget. Rebecca Sanders who used to cover the whole Coyortes sale proceedings for the Arizona Republic was interviewed on Winnipeg radio when the Jets were palying in Glendale.

Anyway she mentioned that the current deal between the NHL and Glendale doesn't have the Dec 31st stipulation that was included in the first $25 million loss coverage arena management deal. Is this accurate? If so is there a date given in which the NHL is free to sell to a relocation partner?
The Coyotes are a fully portable asset. The NHL is under no obligation or date restrictions, they can sell the franchise to anyone at anytime - include relocation for the 12-13 Season. The "Dec 31" and "best efforts to secure a Glendale sale" you are referring to were aspects of the Asset Purchase Agreement (APA) that the NHL used to purchase the team out of bankruptcy.

The NHL fulfilled those obligations. They are "free and clear".

The Coyotes are currently owned by the NHL and the team operates under an Arena Management and Operations Agreement (AMOA) and an Agreement of Management, Use, and Lease (AMUL). Neither the AMOA nor the AMUL contain any provision requiring the league to keep the team in Glendale beyond the end of the 11-12 season, nor do the agreements compel the league to attempt a local sale until a certain date.

In fact, the NHL restates that they possessed the ability to relocate the team prior to the current season, as well as restates their ability to relocate the team after this season at the outset of the AMOA amendment:2011-2012 Coyotes/NHL AMOA Amendment

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10-26-2011, 11:02 AM
  #187
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The Coyotes are a fully portable asset. The NHL is under no obligation or date restrictions, they can sell the franchise to anyone at anytime - include relocation for the 12-13 Season. The "Dec 31" and "best efforts to secure a Glendale sale" you are referring to were aspects of the Asset Purchase Agreement (APA) that the NHL used to purchase the team out of bankruptcy.

The NHL fulfilled those obligations. They are "free and clear".

The Coyotes are currently owned by the NHL and the team operates under an Arena Management and Operations Agreement (AMOA) and an Agreement of Management, Use, and Lease (AMUL). Neither the AMOA nor the AMUL contain any provision requiring the league to keep the team in Glendale beyond the end of the 11-12 season, nor do the agreements compel the league to attempt a local sale until a certain date.

In fact, the NHL restates that they possessed the ability to relocate the team prior to the current season, as well as restates their ability to relocate the team after this season at the outset of the AMOA amendment:2011-2012 Coyotes/NHL AMOA Amendment
Thanks for citing this document CF. One aspect that strikes me is that the language of the agreement makes it clear that the $25million although it is called an "Owners' Fee", it is intended specifically to cover the NHL's losses on operations of the team and arena. In fact, the amount owing is referred to as "Actual Cash Losses".

So, I suppose that we should dispense with references to this $25 million as an "Arena Management Fee". A better term might be the "Loss Coverage Fee", or something like that.

Going forward, I expect that with two years of audited statements by the NHL (the "Owners") to assess the expenses and income, it should be possible to actually determine how much is costs to manage and run the Jobing.com arena per se.

One more thing - the original agreement had a preamble statement that justified the $25 million loss coverage based on a few factors that are no longer relevant: 1) the presence of an MOU with a potential buyer, 2) prevention of a non-local sale until Dec. 31 and, 3) the presence of a bona fide offer for purchase and relocation that the NHL was foregoing (i.e. TNSE offer). In the current amended agreement, it is more difficult to see what Glendale is actually buying with its $25 million. In fact, the NHL could already have an agreement to sell and relocate, or could execute that sort of agreement at any time.


Last edited by Whileee: 10-26-2011 at 11:08 AM.
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Old
10-26-2011, 11:09 AM
  #188
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Going forward, I expect that with two years of audited statements by the NHL (the "Owners") to assess the expenses and income, it should be possible to actually determine how much is costs to manage and run the Jobing.com arena per se.
K. I feel a new anagram coming on; L-CF (in honor of our esteemed Council) instead of AMF.... Pretty sure the NHL has a bead on what it actually does cost to manage & run the arena. I guess the big question is why would they release that information for public consumption, or any team for that matter?. Sure enough they'll divulge it to the prospective buyers but publicly those numbers wont be seeing the light of day anytime soon I shouldnt think. If their required to submit an itemized "invoice" or "statement" in order to claim the funds from Glendale then perhaps, but otherwise?. Locked in the vault.

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10-26-2011, 11:22 AM
  #189
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Thats a very good question cheswick. I dont know that these eyes can stand or take another layer to the onion that seems to be the AMUL signed between the NHL & Glendale back in May. Prolly best left to a legal mind.... thing is though, where & when?. Plenty of spokes in that rumor wheel. From Tacoma to Houston to QC. I dont even wanna think about it.
I find myself towing the line that others have suggested here of a January timeframe: that if SOMETHING isn't well on it's way to being sorted out with either JR or Jaimeson, I think the NHL at that point says "okay, enough is enough".

Having said that I DO think that the NHL will come to some agreement with either party-I offer this caveat, though: it may be a VERY tough deal to swallow for some, be it an lower than expected sale price, inclusion of an outclause within a few years, ect. This team is going to be sold IMO under really optimal "selling" conditions-and some people may not like that. I do hope though that having a team even with a 5-7 year outclause encourages people to say "okay, we've got a few years of solid ownership, let's show how much we want this team to stay"

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10-26-2011, 11:42 AM
  #190
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goyotes, as you say, you're pretty level headed about all of this. Some Coyotes fans here are quite defensive when deficiencies are pointed out (I don't blame them, I can understand someone wanting to find hope), you're honest enough to admit that you're following what's by your own admission a doomed team.

So... given the current situation, what would you rather see (in terms of long term success for the NHL in AZ)? With trying to pre-empt, I guess there's five basic possibilities - but if you have something else in mind, I'd love to hear it.

- Yotes stay & try to sort out their mess
- Yotes move, another team relocates into PHX, Yotes 2.0
- Yotes move, another team relocates into PHX, adopts a new identity
- Yotes move, expansion franchise becomes Yotes 2.0
- Yotes move, expansion franchise with a new identity

I ask because I'm inclined to think that a new identity would be a good thing, simply because of the "baggage" associated with the Coyotes now. But I'm interested in the view from within.
If "I were King" I would like to see the Yotes stay. I don't think that will happen for many reasons.

So... of the choices I think I would select #5. I believe the organization has been the victim of poor karma going back to post WHA days and the Jets. Out with the old, in with the new. And, I really don't want to get a team from another market that loses its team. So expansion would be my preference.

I would also only support expansion to the Valley if something could be worked out to retrofit US Airways center in downtown Phoenix to make it suitable for hockey with about 17,500 unobstructed view seats, and a deal where the Coyotes keep all the game day revenue, and split the non-sports revenue with the Suns. I think a lease like that could be workable from a business standpoint. Of course, the Coyotes and Suns would like their own arena, but I think the days of teams demanding their own arenas are done.

I doubt any of that would happen so I am not optomistic that a new team would be awarded to Phoenix. I think playing out in the west Valley was a kiss of death, and that any chance of success depends upon this team playing downtown.

If I were King, I would make the lease happen downtown as it would basically ensure that approximately 20,000 vistors would be downtown nearly every night of the year when the D-Backs, Suns, Coyotes and concert dates are factored in. It would be a huge asset for downtown Phoenix to have all of these sporting events downtown and really create the 24/7 atmosphere downtown phoenix is still lacking. And, this would help with redevelopment downtown.

As for the CoG and the Job, I really don't care that they loose the Coyotes as it seems to me that they have been one of the parties responsible for not getting a deal done. The Job will get a few more concerts that US Airways might lose, and the Job would probably pick up some high school sporting events but I don't see the arena as ever being anything other than a white elephant in the west valley. It should never have been built there. It should have gone in Scottsdale.

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10-26-2011, 11:52 AM
  #191
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I find myself towing the line that others have suggested here of a January timeframe: that if SOMETHING isn't well on it's way to being sorted out with either JR or Jaimeson, I think the NHL at that point says "okay, enough is enough".
Good points. Once again though we find ourselves on the same ride we were on last year at this time with the "buy before Christmas or else" scenarios. Im guessin people just wanna have the operators speed it up or shut it down but as we've seen in the past, the NHL doesnt operate that way. I fear this could well drag on into the post season once again. Indeed, my Tricorder isnt reading any signs of life whatsoever on Planet Phoenix, yet, whats that damn buzzing noise?...

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10-26-2011, 12:09 PM
  #192
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Assuming the Coyotes leave and Phoenix gets an expansion or relocated franchise in the future, I sure hope the next owner doesn't have to deal with Scruggs, Beasley and the whole COG nightmare.

IMO, they were the biggest hindrance in trying to save the Coyotes, even more so than GWI or the recession.

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10-26-2011, 01:49 PM
  #193
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IMO, they were the biggest hindrance in trying to save the Coyotes, even more so than GWI or the recession.
That and piss-poor attendance.

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10-26-2011, 03:38 PM
  #194
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If "I were King" I would like to see the Yotes stay. I don't think that will happen for many reasons.

So... of the choices I think I would select #5. I believe the organization has been the victim of poor karma going back to post WHA days and the Jets. Out with the old, in with the new. And, I really don't want to get a team from another market that loses its team. So expansion would be my preference.

I would also only support expansion to the Valley if something could be worked out to retrofit US Airways center in downtown Phoenix to make it suitable for hockey with about 17,500 unobstructed view seats, and a deal where the Coyotes keep all the game day revenue, and split the non-sports revenue with the Suns. I think a lease like that could be workable from a business standpoint. Of course, the Coyotes and Suns would like their own arena, but I think the days of teams demanding their own arenas are done.

I doubt any of that would happen so I am not optomistic that a new team would be awarded to Phoenix. I think playing out in the west Valley was a kiss of death, and that any chance of success depends upon this team playing downtown.

If I were King, I would make the lease happen downtown as it would basically ensure that approximately 20,000 vistors would be downtown nearly every night of the year when the D-Backs, Suns, Coyotes and concert dates are factored in. It would be a huge asset for downtown Phoenix to have all of these sporting events downtown and really create the 24/7 atmosphere downtown phoenix is still lacking. And, this would help with redevelopment downtown.

As for the CoG and the Job, I really don't care that they loose the Coyotes as it seems to me that they have been one of the parties responsible for not getting a deal done. The Job will get a few more concerts that US Airways might lose, and the Job would probably pick up some high school sporting events but I don't see the arena as ever being anything other than a white elephant in the west valley. It should never have been built there. It should have gone in Scottsdale.
And here I thought the location issue was a non-issue long ago??

AIA already plays their state basketball championships for the largest school divisions at Jobing. Been doing so for years now. Most high school hockey teams are in the east valley. So you can rule that out.

More concerts? We've beaten that dead horse too. The demand for concerts has fallen off and with GCU opening their new arena the mid-sized concert market just got a whole lot harder.

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10-26-2011, 04:27 PM
  #195
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As for the CoG and the Job, I really don't care that they loose the Coyotes as it seems to me that they have been one of the parties responsible for not getting a deal done. The Job will get a few more concerts that US Airways might lose, and the Job would probably pick up some high school sporting events but I don't see the arena as ever being anything other than a white elephant in the west valley. It should never have been built there. It should have gone in Scottsdale.
Ya, ya see, Im a little more sympathetic to Glendales plight than most obviously. No question it was a colossal mistake in the first place but who knew back then when Phoenix, Glendale & Arizona was Hangin 10 on the crest of the housing & economic boom that it'd all come crashing down so horribly?. Now that its done, fix it. By all means punish the politicians at the polls, but really what your suggesting in advocating the utter abandonment of the facility would be to punish the taxpayers in Glendale for generations to come.

Theres no workable solution to be found in returning to the US Airways Center, a facility they shouldve never been using in the first place, instead setting up shop at the old War Vets on the State Fairgrounds. But no no, Colangelo as front man for the bid on the Jets knew better & wanted another paying tenant, then bailed, leaving ultra Maroons' Burke & Gluckstern holding a bag they had no idea what to do with, like dogs who caught the car. Now what Ralphy Boy?. No my friend, we cant let the people of Glendale suffer & pay for the mistakes of others. Get a deal done. This can be salvaged. There are numerous examples of lousy locations turning the corner, holding their own, Ottawa, Sunrise etc... If even two of the at least half dozen promises hold true for Glendale & Westgate, corners turned.

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More concerts? We've beaten that dead horse too. The demand for concerts has fallen off and with GCU opening their new arena the mid-sized concert market just got a whole lot harder.
When an arena loses its anchor tenant the ripple effects are felt throughout the market. Absent the Coyotes, whomever takes over running the joints going to be going hyper-aggressive in guaranteeing appearance fee's, discounting rentals & services in order to attract business. The other facilities will then have to compete, dropping their drawers & losing money, eventually bringing the US Airways Center itself along with the 3 or 4 other venues in Phoenix to their knee's. Im not speculating that this scenario will play out, you can take it to the bank. Ive seen it happen in a dozen cities or more in the US & Europe.

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10-26-2011, 06:09 PM
  #196
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I think playing out in the west Valley was a kiss of death, and that any chance of success depends upon this team playing downtown.

If I were King, I would make the lease happen downtown as it would basically ensure that approximately 20,000 vistors would be downtown nearly every night of the year when the D-Backs, Suns, Coyotes and concert dates are factored in. It would be a huge asset for downtown Phoenix to have all of these sporting events downtown and really create the 24/7 atmosphere downtown phoenix is still lacking. And, this would help with redevelopment downtown.

As for the CoG and the Job, I really don't care that they loose the Coyotes as it seems to me that they have been one of the parties responsible for not getting a deal done. The Job will get a few more concerts that US Airways might lose, and the Job would probably pick up some high school sporting events but I don't see the arena as ever being anything other than a white elephant in the west valley. It should never have been built there. It should have gone in Scottsdale.
Wow, welcome to the darkside. I agree with all the above.

Fan590 in Toronto talking a little about the Yotes today. The only part I tuned in to was the cost of tickets. Yotes are rank 29th in price (I didn't hear who was 30th), however the cost of beer per ounce at the Job., is the most expensive in the NHL. Apparently the arena has one of the most expensive concessions in the league. Somebody is making some cash down there.

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10-26-2011, 06:13 PM
  #197
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K. I feel a new anagram coming on; L-CF (in honor of our esteemed Council) instead of AMF.... Pretty sure the NHL has a bead on what it actually does cost to manage & run the arena. I guess the big question is why would they release that information for public consumption, or any team for that matter?. Sure enough they'll divulge it to the prospective buyers but publicly those numbers wont be seeing the light of day anytime soon I shouldnt think. If their required to submit an itemized "invoice" or "statement" in order to claim the funds from Glendale then perhaps, but otherwise?. Locked in the vault.
No question, this information will be kept private if possible.

The reason I mentioned it is that if a "Management Fee" is being contemplated by a new owner, and if the GWI retains any interest in that issue, they could perhaps attempt to pry open the books for the past couple of years to see what a fair amount might be for managing the arena. If, as Glendale has stated previously, the net cost of running of the Jobing.com approaches $20 million annually, then the NHL is essentially eating almost all of the Coyotes' hockey-related losses. I find that very difficult to believe, don't you?

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10-26-2011, 07:04 PM
  #198
Killion
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If, as Glendale has stated previously, the net cost of running of the Jobing.com approaches $20 million annually, then the NHL is essentially eating almost all of the Coyotes' hockey-related losses. I find that very difficult to believe, don't you?
Excluding the debt servicing on the arena bonds I seem to remember a figure of $5-7M as being the operational costs for Glendale Arena per annum based on a 41 game schedule & a few exhibition games thrown in. Dont quote me directly on that but Id hazard to guess that figures likely pretty accurate based on my knowledge of the industry which surprisingly is actually pretty good all things considered, like I shouldnt even be alive, but I digress... that the team & buildings supposed to be actually making money, the COG's obligations pursuant to their responsibilities in servicing the bonds all but forgotten. What we require here is a Steven Hawking backed by a Moby soundtrack to erase the blackboard & start us all from scratch. Put infinity into its place once & for all, which really Whileee is just a series of Bubbles within Bubbles...

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10-26-2011, 10:39 PM
  #199
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This little photo-shop delight has never gone out of style in my opinion....
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10-26-2011, 10:59 PM
  #200
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If "I were King" I would like to see the Yotes stay. I don't think that will happen for many reasons.

So... of the choices I think I would select #5. I believe the organization has been the victim of poor karma going back to post WHA days and the Jets. Out with the old, in with the new. And, I really don't want to get a team from another market that loses its team. So expansion would be my preference.

I would also only support expansion to the Valley if something could be worked out to retrofit US Airways center in downtown Phoenix to make it suitable for hockey with about 17,500 unobstructed view seats, and a deal where the Coyotes keep all the game day revenue, and split the non-sports revenue with the Suns. I think a lease like that could be workable from a business standpoint. Of course, the Coyotes and Suns would like their own arena, but I think the days of teams demanding their own arenas are done.

I doubt any of that would happen so I am not optomistic that a new team would be awarded to Phoenix. I think playing out in the west Valley was a kiss of death, and that any chance of success depends upon this team playing downtown.

If I were King, I would make the lease happen downtown as it would basically ensure that approximately 20,000 vistors would be downtown nearly every night of the year when the D-Backs, Suns, Coyotes and concert dates are factored in. It would be a huge asset for downtown Phoenix to have all of these sporting events downtown and really create the 24/7 atmosphere downtown phoenix is still lacking. And, this would help with redevelopment downtown.

As for the CoG and the Job, I really don't care that they loose the Coyotes as it seems to me that they have been one of the parties responsible for not getting a deal done. The Job will get a few more concerts that US Airways might lose, and the Job would probably pick up some high school sporting events but I don't see the arena as ever being anything other than a white elephant in the west valley. It should never have been built there. It should have gone in Scottsdale.
Like I always said goyotes, the coyotes already moved from Phoenix. Just 20 miles away though.

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