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Phoenix XL - Rich Man's World

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Old
10-27-2011, 07:39 AM
  #201
Ryan34222
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Originally Posted by dronald View Post
Why doesn't the NHL state that the team only won't move if people start attending games?
Shouldn't be needed tbh.. From day one. Look at the way they've been fighting to keep the team there. the league bought the team to keep it from moving, if that doesn't send a clear message I don't know what will...
IMO it's all on the fans right now.. Be the market it can be and the white knight owner will show up


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10-27-2011, 08:31 AM
  #202
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In Phoenix, former Sharks president Greg Jamison is still trying to get a group in place to purchase the Coyotes from the league. I've been told that while Jamison has little money of his own in the deal, he is now having trouble with his investors to commit to the project. Meanwhile, Jerry Reinsdorf sits and waits to see if he can still be the answer in the desert.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/...1M-aSE.twitter

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10-27-2011, 10:14 AM
  #203
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If they get that new owner ill be very curious to see them magically reach 10000-12000 season ticket buyers at regular nhl prices cause we all know there are thousands of fans waiting just for that, give them a new owner and they will spend their 5000$

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10-27-2011, 10:25 AM
  #204
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Depending on how this goes it might be Jerry's by default....

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10-27-2011, 10:52 AM
  #205
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Lol, another one of those schemes where you get everyone else to invest their money in your idea so you don't have to. Nice.

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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Depending on how this goes it might be Jerry's by default....
That's likely how it plays out.

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10-27-2011, 12:11 PM
  #206
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This doesn't surprise me. If he had the reported $400M lined up, I would have thought a deal with the NHL would have been done weeks ago.

I don't see a deal getting done at this stage. I also think after 3 years even some die-hard fans have stopped caring and have moved on with their lives.

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10-27-2011, 12:15 PM
  #207
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And here I thought the location issue was a non-issue long ago??

AIA already plays their state basketball championships for the largest school divisions at Jobing. Been doing so for years now. Most high school hockey teams are in the east valley. So you can rule that out.

More concerts? We've beaten that dead horse too. The demand for concerts has fallen off and with GCU opening their new arena the mid-sized concert market just got a whole lot harder.
Anyone who says the location of the arena and the rush hour drive time are non-issues, is kidding themselves. It was up hill all the way the moment they left downtown for anywhere other than the Los Arcos Scottsdale location. Once again, Ellman being penny wise and pound foolish. Do you think Westgate and the Coyotes would both be in the trouble they are now if the development had stayed in Scottsdale?

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10-27-2011, 12:28 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Depending on how this goes it might be Jerry's by default....
Bettman: Hey Jerry, how's it going?
JR: Fine... what do you want?
Bettman: Well, it turns out nobody wants the Coyotes, so you win by default.
JR: You mean I get the team?!
Bettman: That's what I said. It's all yours ( snicker ). You win.
JR: OK, great. But I don't think I would call it a win. The team is still in Glendale after all.

Just kiddin' . Seriously, let's say JR gets the team by lack of competition. He still has to pay for it, still has to run it, still has to pay the bills, etc. I just can't wait to see the agreement that JR would have with the CoG if he does get the team. The first agreement had subsidies ( call them whatever ) and I can't see JR taking a deal that would be even worse than what he started a while back. JR may get the team at the end of the day, but someone else will be paying thru the nose for it going forward.

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Old
10-27-2011, 01:37 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Depending on how this goes it might be Jerry's by default....
It's going to great to see how he backs out.

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Old
10-27-2011, 02:13 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
This doesn't surprise me. If he had the reported $400M lined up, I would have thought a deal with the NHL would have been done weeks ago. I don't see a deal getting done at this stage. I also think after 3 years even some die-hard fans have stopped caring and have moved on with their lives.
I agree. Obviously financing appears to be the problem. Had he had the backing last summer a deal wouldve' been done. Explains a lot. Upon commencement of the season, anyone who mightve' been seriously contemplating wouldve backed off as the deadline to make a deal had passed them bye, little point in closing, assuming debts etc for the 11-12 season. I suppose theoretically you could do a deal with the NHL & Glendale assuming ownership upon conclusion of the season but still, we may have passed the vanishing point here Im sorry to say.

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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
Anyone who says the location of the arena and the rush hour drive time are non-issues, is kidding themselves. It was up hill all the way the moment they left downtown for anywhere other than the Los Arcos Scottsdale location. Once again, Ellman being penny wise and pound foolish. Do you think Westgate and the Coyotes would both be in the trouble they are now if the development had stayed in Scottsdale?
Actually goyotes, ya, I do, given Ellmans intransigence, Moyes trying to buy a clue. That pair wouldve' messed up regardless. Under astute & caring ownership however, though not nearly as ideal as Scottsdale or my first choice, the State Fair Grounds, location issues really should be a non-issue by this point in the game. Look at the Panthers; their arena is in the middle of Alligator Alley, access very nearly available by airboat & outboard. They too are struggling at the gate however overall, the building is actually profitable, allowing them to prop-up the franchise while hopefully turning the corner under new management, and ultra aggressive marketing (I See Red) & sponsorship sales.

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10-27-2011, 02:21 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
If they get that new owner ill be very curious to see them magically reach 10000-12000 season ticket buyers at regular nhl prices cause we all know there are thousands of fans waiting just for that, give them a new owner and they will spend their 5000$
When a team is in the state of flux that the Coyotes are and your marketing department is forced to cut back, you're bound to see a hit in corporate sales. That's a far bigger problem than "Joe fan" being turned off by the lack of ownership stability, which is what you seem to be intimating.

You're seeing a pretty good example of this in Dallas right now, and they haven't been through half the turmoil that the Yotes have.

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10-27-2011, 02:38 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
When a team is in the state of flux that the Coyotes are and your marketing department is forced to cut back, you're bound to see a hit in corporate sales. That's a far bigger problem than "Joe fan" being turned off by the lack of ownership stability, which is what you seem to be intimating.

You're seeing a pretty good example of this in Dallas right now, and they haven't been through half the turmoil that the Yotes have.
id rather Canadian ticket rates come down.. this overpaying on everything is for the birds..

edit: oops meant to quote GordonGraham


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10-27-2011, 03:45 PM
  #213
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I still think the best hope to save the Coyotes would be the Tribe when they build their Casino. The increased gambling, foot traffic would more than enough to offset the losses of the Coyotes.

Has anyone also read that Glendale is being forced to pay the Tribe's legal fees? Yep Glendale lost it's appeal and will have to waste more Taxpayer's money.

I doublt that they will pay another 25 million to keep the team another season. I think this time it's do or die.

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10-27-2011, 04:09 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by wpgJetsfan View Post
I still think the best hope to save the Coyotes would be the Tribe when they build their Casino. The increased gambling, foot traffic would more than enough to offset the losses of the Coyotes.

Has anyone also read that Glendale is being forced to pay the Tribe's legal fees? Yep Glendale lost it's appeal and will have to waste more Taxpayer's money.

I doublt that they will pay another 25 million to keep the team another season. I think this time it's do or die.
With all the fighting they've been doing against the Casino-it would be interesting to see how they would explain suddenly siding with them. I think there's too much bad blood there.

That's interesting about the legal fees, and adds certainly some emphasis that this could be a do or die scenario-that's a lot of money that CoG is bleeding/owing right now.


And if these reports about Jaimeson maybe not being able to fall through with an offer, it leaves JR in a very interesting position with I would think even more leverage.

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10-27-2011, 04:42 PM
  #215
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Has anyone also read that Glendale is being forced to pay the Tribe's legal fees? Yep Glendale lost it's appeal and will have to waste more Taxpayer's money.
That stuff will be in the courts forever. It’s more about control of the land and all the resources of it (water, right of ways...) than just the idea of a Casino

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ver-plans.html

Quote:
Multiple lawsuits have been filed in the two-year struggle.

At least one was settled this week when the Arizona Supreme Court denied Glendale's request to hear an appeal related to whether the tribal-owned land was part of the city.
...

State Attorney General Tom Horne and others filed a lawsuit earlier this year saying the proposed casino would crack the state gaming compact with tribes.

...

The year after the measure passed, the Tohono O'odham Nation quietly purchased the land on the Glendale-Peoria border. In 2009, the Tohono O'odham leaders unveiled their plans.

Horne's case, which asks a judge to rule that gaming could not be allowed on the tribe's land, also must be decided.

This week's state Supreme Court decision dealt with a more narrow issue. The city had claimed the city had annexed a portion of the tribe's land in 2001. The tribe took the city to court, arguing that annexation was never finalized because the then-owner changed his mind. A Maricopa County Superior Court judge had ruled in Glendale's favor, which reduced the area the tribe could take into a reservation. The tribe won on appeal. Glendale request to appeal the case to the Arizona Supreme Court was denied on Tuesday.

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10-27-2011, 06:44 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
Anyone who says the location of the arena and the rush hour drive time are non-issues, is kidding themselves. It was up hill all the way the moment they left downtown for anywhere other than the Los Arcos Scottsdale location. Once again, Ellman being penny wise and pound foolish. Do you think Westgate and the Coyotes would both be in the trouble they are now if the development had stayed in Scottsdale?
Sorry.... but I used to make the drive from the West Valley to Scottsdale just north of Talking Stick. At the most it took under 45mins to make the 38 mile drive. With the Loops 101 adding car pool lanes that drive is about to get easier.

When the Yotes were downtown it usually took 20 minutes, BEFORE you had to hunt for parking.

We both know there are STHs who come from as far as Prescott and you do not see them clamoring about the drive.

This is a non-issue.... it always has been.

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10-27-2011, 07:27 PM
  #217
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Tick tock tick tock....

Entropy dictates that an non-energized mass (such as a largely inert hockey franchise) will continue to lose impetus.

With no prospect of new ownership, with no marketing efforts, the crowds continue to dwindle, and the attractiveness of the franchise continues to wane.

Yes, Reinsdorf may get the (tarnished) prize, but at what price?!

Yes, Mr. Bettman, what price? Consider this your legacy....

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10-27-2011, 08:41 PM
  #218
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With no prospect of new ownership, with no marketing efforts, the crowds continue to dwindle, and the attractiveness of the franchise continues to wane.
Segment 5 goes into more detail about the tweet below at: http://azsportstalk.com/category/podcasts/ (around 30 second mark)

Quote:
1: rocandmanuch Roc from Roc&Manuch
#Phoenixcoyotes Jamison Group needed to swap out an investor and now NHL is doing their research. All good! They have over $400m
2 hours ago
http://twitter.com/#!/rocandmanuch

Quote:
2: GLENDALE, ARIZONA --- Phoenix Coyotes Chief Operating Officer Mike Nealy announced today that the Coyotes have launched their new marketing campaign, “Hockey the Hard Way” for the 2011-12 NHL season. The campaign, which was developed by Fallon Minneapolis’ newly created sports division, The Room, focuses on the Coyotes’ “us against the world” mentality and the organization’s defiant attitude and resolve to overcome adversity.
http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=590916

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10-27-2011, 09:39 PM
  #219
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who is accurate?

John Shannon or Roc?????????????????????

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10-28-2011, 01:10 AM
  #220
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who is accurate?

John Shannon or Roc?????????????????????

I'm not taking either one as being accurate. And at this point I think it's foolish for anyone to take what's tweeted or blogged seriously.

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10-28-2011, 09:08 AM
  #221
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I'm not taking either one as being accurate. And at this point I think it's foolish for anyone to take what's tweeted or blogged seriously.
Anyway, what's this Roc and Manuch thing? Why would they be "knowing" things others don't? And why would any potential buyers give them (or any other media) informations since Bettman always said being low profile and quiet is the way of doing things (like TSNE did)?

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10-28-2011, 09:33 AM
  #222
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I'm not taking either one as being accurate. And at this point I think it's foolish for anyone to take what's tweeted or blogged seriously.
I think you're right, Legend. It's almost impossible to read the tea leaves here.

Under normal circumstances, the complete silence might indicate that a workable deal is not coming together. However, "normal circumstances" passed us by long ago. The lack of news might just indicate that the players have learned their lessons from past experience and are not letting anything be said until everything is final.

From the outside looking in, it is impossible to know what is really happening.

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10-28-2011, 10:08 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by AndyCapp View Post
Tick tock tick tock....

Entropy dictates that an non-energized mass (such as a largely inert hockey franchise) will continue to lose impetus.

With no prospect of new ownership, with no marketing efforts, the crowds continue to dwindle, and the attractiveness of the franchise continues to wane.

Yes, Reinsdorf may get the (tarnished) prize, but at what price?!

Yes, Mr. Bettman, what price? Consider this your legacy....
I admit I had to stop and think about this, wondering if you meant entropy or momentum.... while noting that both could apply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
This doesn't surprise me. If he had the reported $400M lined up, I would have thought a deal with the NHL would have been done weeks ago.

I don't see a deal getting done at this stage. I also think after 3 years even some die-hard fans have stopped caring and have moved on with their lives.
Is $400 million enough though? You figure they need $170+ million to buy the team, assuming the NHL hasn't raised the price further to cover its losses. Then, even if you conservatively figure on only $20 million per year in losses on HRR of $56 million... over five years, that's $100 million of cash that needs to be infused. It will take at least that long to get the franchise back on its feet, assuming that it can improve. If you realistically figure on the $25-30 million in losses for at least the first three years, that's $15-30 million of cash needed.

Basically someone has to be convinced that they can get at least the amount they paid back at some point in the future, with no assurance that they will ever see the cash losses back. That's not a very good ROI no matter how you massage the numbers. I have a very hard time understanding why anyone would use their own money. Either Glendale pays for it somehow, or this will never get off the ground.

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10-28-2011, 10:36 AM
  #224
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I agree after 3 years its hard to take just about anything blogged or even from "proven" sources seriously-how many times did we hear variations of being close to a deal, only to find, no they arent. And this "they have enough!" comment comes shortly after we hear the polar opposite just adds to it.

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10-28-2011, 10:56 AM
  #225
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who is accurate?

John Shannon or Roc?????????????????????
As far as John Shannon goes, he definitely has sources in Glendale (more closely tied to JR than anyone else though). Every time JR re-emerged, it was Shannon who broke the news.

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