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Proposals for Neidermayer?

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Old
08-31-2004, 12:24 AM
  #26
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Colorado: Neidermayer (2 mil)

NJ: Liles & 1st rd pick

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08-31-2004, 12:29 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_Ortiz
Niedermayer won't play for the Canucks. Why would he go from a contender to a pretender?
Maybe because he already won 3 cups and thinks it's time to move on, besides Vancouver is a team with potential, it's not like he's moving to Columbus or Nashville where it'll take them few more years til they can challange for the cup.

Vancouver has a good team but missing some peices to the puzzle, I think Niedermayer and getting rid of Cloutier would make their chances very high.

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08-31-2004, 12:30 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE
Well, love it all you want, because Scott still plays for the Devils. At the moment, he's in his prime and wants to be paid what he and is agent believe to be the best defensemen in the NHL. It's common sense, stay at home or make $2 or $3 million a year more for 3 or 4 year's. Scott might one day play for Vancouver, but if they don't cough up the money, it will probably be on the down-side of career. Plus, every player wants to play for a cup contender instead of chokers!
kariya is at his prime too, but that didnt stop him from takin a (near) $8M paycut to play where he wants to play. if neidermayer turn down a $40M contract for more money, how many teams can afford him, would NJ be able to pay him $10M/year?? what his agent say in the NY post doesnt count for much to me, what do u expect him to say, that his client is worth less than what he got from arbitration?? i dont think hes "stupid" (thats what you call him if he sign for $6M) if he take a paycut to play for the nucks or ducks, i admire a guy who rather play for a team he like than for a team that offer the most money.

 
Old
08-31-2004, 12:48 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
id pass if it came at the expense of Jovo or Ohlund.

dr
Naslund will be gone after next season. This will free up $6 million to sign Niedermayer. And hopefully a new CBA will give the Canucks more money to deal with re-signing player, free agents and such.

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08-31-2004, 12:55 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapel113x
Naslund will be gone after next season. This will free up $6 million to sign Niedermayer. And hopefully a new CBA will give the Canucks more money to deal with re-signing player, free agents and such.
How do you know Naslund would be gone after next year? all Swedes do that, they say they wanna go home but they end up staying, Lidstrom must've mentioned it 3 or 4 times in his career and he always ends up signing a new contract.

I think if the money is right Nazzy won't go anywhere for a while, and if for whatever reason he does leave don't expect the Canucks to sign Niedermayer with that money because they will be in need for a forward to replace Naslund, adding Niedermayer to a solid D-corp already makes no sense when you're short on quality forwards.

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08-31-2004, 01:20 AM
  #31
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I don't think that even with Naslund gone the Canucks can afford to sign him at an 7-8 million dollar contract, remember his brother wants to come along too so thats a package deal. That 9-10 million being added on to the Canucks payroll, and if Naslund stay, well then there probably is no room for him (and his brother) unless the Canucks give back salary in return. Meaning a trade.

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08-31-2004, 01:26 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_Ortiz
Niedermayer won't play for the Canucks. Why would he go from a contender to a pretender?
because he has already won stanley cups and its time for him to think about his family. Raise kids in a nicer area and likely play on a team with his brother soon.

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08-31-2004, 01:27 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birko19
How do you know Naslund would be gone after next year? all Swedes do that, they say they wanna go home but they end up staying, Lidstrom must've mentioned it 3 or 4 times in his career and he always ends up signing a new contract.

I think if the money is right Nazzy won't go anywhere for a while, and if for whatever reason he does leave don't expect the Canucks to sign Niedermayer with that money because they will be in need for a forward to replace Naslund, adding Niedermayer to a solid D-corp already makes no sense when you're short on quality forwards.
Mark my words. Naslund is gone after next season. The sooner Canucks fans realize this the less it will hurt when he leaves. The Sedins w/ Bertuzzi will be an excellent top line when Naslund leaves. And Cooke w/Morrison will be a solid 2nd line.

As far as not enough money. The Canuck owner is a tight wad. The money is there but he just won't spend it. I doubt Rob Niedermayer will continue to make the kind of money he is making now with a new CBA. Scott Niedermayer/Rob Niedermayer at MOST would cost $10 million to sign next year. McCaw isn't that stupid to pass this up regardless of what anyone thinks.

BTW, To say the canucks are not a cup contending team is flat out stupid. They are a 2 or 3 pieces away from winning a Cup.

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08-31-2004, 01:37 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapel113x
As far as not enough money. The Canuck owner is a tight wad. The money is there but he just won't spend it. I doubt Rob Niedermayer will continue to make the kind of money he is making now with a new CBA. Scott Niedermayer/Rob Niedermayer at MOST would cost $10 million to sign next year. McCaw isn't that stupid to pass this up regardless of what anyone thinks.
I guess I didn't realize that 10 million was such a cheap price tag nowadays, well you know with this CBA disaster and a lot of teams being in debt already stuff.

Quote:
BTW, To say the canucks are not a cup contending team is flat out stupid. They are a 2 or 3 pieces away from winning a Cup.
Yet your subtracting a big big piece of the puzzel in Naslund. He may be the best player in hockey currently. Niedermayer or no Niedermayer the Canucks will feel the loss of Naslund whether you like it or not. You can't just remove franchise players and expect the organization to keep on rolling with out a slip.

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08-31-2004, 02:55 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapel113x
Mark my words. Naslund is gone after next season. The sooner Canucks fans realize this the less it will hurt when he leaves. The Sedins w/ Bertuzzi will be an excellent top line when Naslund leaves. And Cooke w/Morrison will be a solid 2nd line.

As far as not enough money. The Canuck owner is a tight wad. The money is there but he just won't spend it. I doubt Rob Niedermayer will continue to make the kind of money he is making now with a new CBA. Scott Niedermayer/Rob Niedermayer at MOST would cost $10 million to sign next year. McCaw isn't that stupid to pass this up regardless of what anyone thinks.

BTW, To say the canucks are not a cup contending team is flat out stupid. They are a 2 or 3 pieces away from winning a Cup.
Well I won't believe it until I see it.

BTW, I never said the Nucks are not a contender, I said they have a great team and Niedermayer + getting rid of Cloutier will most likely make them tougher, depending on who replaces Cloutier of course.

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Old
08-31-2004, 03:32 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionHockey
I guess I didn't realize that 10 million was such a cheap price tag nowadays, well you know with this CBA disaster and a lot of teams being in debt already stuff.


Yet your subtracting a big big piece of the puzzel in Naslund. He may be the best player in hockey currently. Niedermayer or no Niedermayer the Canucks will feel the loss of Naslund whether you like it or not. You can't just remove franchise players and expect the organization to keep on rolling with out a slip.
Even if it was a $10 million pricetag for the Niedermayer brothers (which I don't think it would be). Minus Naslund's salary from that and its more of a $4 million pricetag. The Canucks are one of the most profitable teams in the NHL the past 4-5 years so it won't be a problem with them.

Losing Naslund will hurt their offense without a doubt. But gaining Niedermayer would give them the best Group of 6 D-men in the NHL IMO. The Sedins w/ Bertuzzi will be a deadly top line when Naslund leaves.

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08-31-2004, 08:06 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKarateMonkey
kariya is at his prime too, but that didnt stop him from takin a (near) $8M paycut to play where he wants to play. if neidermayer turn down a $40M contract for more money, how many teams can afford him, would NJ be able to pay him $10M/year?? what his agent say in the NY post doesnt count for much to me, what do u expect him to say, that his client is worth less than what he got from arbitration?? i dont think hes "stupid" (thats what you call him if he sign for $6M) if he take a paycut to play for the nucks or ducks, i admire a guy who rather play for a team he like than for a team that offer the most money.
Using kariya is a joke. He made one heck of a bad career choice.

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08-31-2004, 09:15 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE
Using kariya is a joke. He made one heck of a bad career choice.
IMO this is just another generalization you're making here... just like:


Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE
Plus, every player wants to play for a cup contender instead of chokers!

Maybe not every single player in the NHL is about money here... maybe like a lot of professional people, it matters to these guys where they live, raise their family and play hockey?

Take Oates for instance... 2 years ago he signed in Anahiem, before that team went to the finals... he even said himself that he wasn't going there to compete for the Cup, thinking they had no chance then (and when he signed they were a much weaker team than the Canucks are now!).

then comes money... your assumptions are that all players will go for the biggest paycheck - again we have examples around the league where players took less money for other reasons.

And Kariya is one of those example... you might criticize him for making a stupid move by taking less money to go to Colorado... but try thinking of it like a human decision - it's not just a black or white decision of making more or less money!

Kariya got to decide which team in the league he gets to play on... he got to make a decision at 28 - 4 years younger than the average UFA - that he wants to reunite with a good friend and former linemate on a contending team... the team didn't do well, but he is still the youngest star UFA on the market again, and again will get to decide where he wants to play and live... there are rumours out of Vancouver right now that the Canucks have talked to Kariya's agent, as he's interested in also "coming home"...

There are players in the league that do go after the biggest paycheck... but you're generalizing by saying it's a tendency of every player. Niedermayer has said that family is important.. that living closer to home is important.. that playing one day with his brother is important... why is it so hard to believe that a guy who's done everything in this league - from winning multiple Cups, to winning the Norris - finally wants to play closer to friends and family, and will sacrifice $$ to make that happen?

not everyone in the NHL thinks only about money... probably seems that way right now because of the labor strike.. but we've seen examples of past players that haven't.

Fedorov is probably a good example here... just like Niedermayer he was playing for a top contending team... he was offered more money on a long term deal by Detroit, which he turned down initially to go after free agency... later Detroit takes that deal off the table, but Fedorov signs for less in Anahiem, on a front loaded contract that goes down to $6mill I believe next season... he went from a strong team to a weaker one, taking less money.

Why is it not possible that Niedermayer, who also has an option to play close to home, which Fedorov didn't, follow a similar path?

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Old
08-31-2004, 09:38 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
So the Canucks basically just add on about $10 mil in salary, just like that huh? Ummmm, no. If Niedermayer is to become a Canuck, or leave New Jersey for that matter, it will be as a UFA next off-season. Lou won't trade him. Besides, I doubt any team is going to make a trade for a UFA to be until the new CBA is put in place. If there's no season, you've basically acquired nothing as Niedermayer could walk away July 1st.
Well isn't vancouver going to have to pay Niedermayer upwards of 7 million per year?you canuck fans say they don't have this money, welll where are they going to find it?

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08-31-2004, 12:29 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
Well isn't vancouver going to have to pay Niedermayer upwards of 7 million per year?you canuck fans say they don't have this money, welll where are they going to find it?
I guess they believe that Scotty is so homesick that maybe he'll play for free. I mean nucks fans like to state that he's acomplished everything possible as a hockey player, he has enough money, sure, why not. :lol

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08-31-2004, 12:35 PM
  #41
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Also keep in mind that today in the Vancouver Sun, the Sedin's were complaining about playing time and how they wanted to be paid like 2nd line players. GM Nonis said he "can't and won't" pay them that kind of money.

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08-31-2004, 12:45 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
Also keep in mind that today in the Vancouver Sun, the Sedin's were complaining about playing time and how they wanted to be paid like 2nd line players. GM Nonis said he "can't and won't" pay them that kind of money.
Good God, this is called negotiation through the media. It has always happened, it will continue to happen. While Nonis was under Burke's tutelage, Nonis has not shown the same stubbornness Burke has. In the Burke regime, if you wanted arbitration, Burke cut off contract negotiations until the arbitration hearing. Nonis continued negotiations, and in fact signed Morrison and Cloutier, both of whom filed for arbitration, before their hearing dates. Until you hear "I will gladly drive them to the airport" from Nonis, it doesn't mean he's going to kick the Sedins out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
Well isn't vancouver going to have to pay Niedermayer upwards of 7 million per year?you canuck fans say they don't have this money, welll where are they going to find it?
This year Niedermeyer is making $7 M. Next year is the new CBA, which means the price tag may decrease, or it may stay the same. He may take a pay cut to play here, as a coming home thing as mentioned before. But again, this is speculation. If he doesn't take a large enough pay cut, or perhaps if the Canucks financial situation isn't prosperous enough to allow it (ie John McCaw won't cough up the money even though he has it), then he won't come. But those who are saying it is impossible because they know Scott Niedermeyer is all about the money are talking out of their *****.

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08-31-2004, 12:55 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
Well isn't vancouver going to have to pay Niedermayer upwards of 7 million per year?you canuck fans say they don't have this money, welll where are they going to find it?
Yea, and he'll be replacing a d-man like Malik or Salo, so there's $2 mil shaved off right there. Adding $4 mil is much easier then adding $10 mil, would you not agree?

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08-31-2004, 12:59 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
Also keep in mind that today in the Vancouver Sun, the Sedin's were complaining about playing time and how they wanted to be paid like 2nd line players. GM Nonis said he "can't and won't" pay them that kind of money.
if you're going to share the story, you might as well give the facts...

The Sedins and the Canucks are in negotiations right now - as e73 mentioned already... this is all just part of standard negotiations.

The Sedins' are asking for $1.7mill a year each... the canucks are offering $1.4mill/yr... not much difference... they dont' have much leverage though, not having arbitration rights, so they gotta create whatever leverage they can.

It'd sure be a waste of money paying an agent if all he did was sign what the canucks asked for... and Nonis would be an idiot to sign them now for anything more than they are offering because the season doesn't start next week, or even next month, and the Sedins dont' have many options.

this is all normal though.. it happens in alot of negotiations... it was only a month ago that Nonis said the same thing about Morrison - that they don't know if they can sign him and they might be looking for other options... it worked out great for the club, as only a week later they signed Morrison to a 1-yr deal before he went to arbitration... now if this tactic works - and the team has been using it for years - then why stop now when there is no season on the horizon?

as far as the canucks having money to sign Niedermayer, although it's been said several times, you guys don't seem to realize that you're not just adding that salary onto a payroll, but replacing it with outgoing salary as well... in the end can the Canucks add $4mill or so to their payroll (not the $7mill or $10mill that's being suggested)?? I think they can for the right player.

The team has been making tons of money last few years - one of the more profitable teams in the league overall, so adding $4mill more to that payroll isn't that huge a deal... and when you factor in the financial intangibles, like him being a local boy, a superstar player, who wants to come home - that's huge marketing options there - it makes even more sense.

but this is all speculation... none of it would have started to begin with, if Niedermayer didn't create the speculation himself... Niedermayer started all this talk himself!

and all we can do is speculate at this time... we don't know what the CBA will look like, or what is even a realistic salary demand for Niedermayer a year from now... with a bigger UFA market, possible salary cap, or fiscal restraint in other ways, maybe $7mill is the ceiling for this player - and if so, it's not a stretch to see him take a bit less to go where he wants... it was only a year ago that Fedorov did the same thing... couple years ago Cujo took less than what Toronto offered to play in Detroit.

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08-31-2004, 03:49 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by RallyKiller
Well isn't vancouver going to have to pay Niedermayer upwards of 7 million per year?you canuck fans say they don't have this money, welll where are they going to find it?
if you have actually read some of the posts on this thread, you'll know that the canucks dont have to add $7M to their payroll to sign scott neidermayer (even though scott will be pay $7M if he wanted it). if the nucks do sign him to $7M/year, they'll cut loose malik or salo ($2M), may ($1M), thats saving $3M right there. so they are only adding $4M to their payroll for one of the best Dman in the league. they can also replace some veteran with youngester to save money as well. scott wont have to play for free to play here.
using kariya is a joke? why? is it because i actually found an example to prove a point (that money isnt everything)? i dont see how he made a bad career choice. would you want to play for the avalanches (with your best friend, with sakic, forsberg, blake, foote, etc. and also have a chance to pick which ever team you want to play for the year after) or would you want to play for the ducks?

 
Old
08-31-2004, 04:51 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapel113x
Even if it was a $10 million pricetag for the Niedermayer brothers (which I don't think it would be). Minus Naslund's salary from that and its more of a $4 million pricetag. The Canucks are one of the most profitable teams in the NHL the past 4-5 years so it won't be a problem with them.

Losing Naslund will hurt their offense without a doubt. But gaining Niedermayer would give them the best Group of 6 D-men in the NHL IMO. The Sedins w/ Bertuzzi will be a deadly top line when Naslund leaves.
You don't even know if Bertuzzi will be in jail or not, Until the canucks actually open up the wallet we shouldn't assume Niedermayer will be there. he's not going to take a 4 million dollar deal.

Until we see the Canucks spend money on UFA's most should be skeptical.

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08-31-2004, 05:04 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
You don't even know if Bertuzzi will be in jail or not, Until the canucks actually open up the wallet we shouldn't assume Niedermayer will be there. he's not going to take a 4 million dollar deal.

Until we see the Canucks spend money on UFA's most should be skeptical.

If the Rangers, Leafs, Wings, or Flyers decide to open their wallets to sign Niedermayer (which is reasonably likely), he'll likely stay in the east.

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08-31-2004, 05:08 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SuperKarateMonkey
if you have actually read some of the posts on this thread, you'll know that the canucks dont have to add $7M to their payroll to sign scott neidermayer (even though scott will be pay $7M if he wanted it). if the nucks do sign him to $7M/year, they'll cut loose malik or salo ($2M), may ($1M), thats saving $3M right there. so they are only adding $4M to their payroll for one of the best Dman in the league. they can also replace some veteran with youngester to save money as well. scott wont have to play for free to play here.
using kariya is a joke? why? is it because i actually found an example to prove a point (that money isnt everything)? i dont see how he made a bad career choice. would you want to play for the avalanches (with your best friend, with sakic, forsberg, blake, foote, etc. and also have a chance to pick which ever team you want to play for the year after) or would you want to play for the ducks?
Where did I mention Kariya?I don't think I did, it will cost atleast 9 million to sign Scott and Rob, thats the reality. When the canucks finally spend some money we can make assumptions. The Niedermayer scenario and the kariya scenario are different, Kariya bolted the first chance he got after a run to the finals. I don't think Niedermayer should leave New Jersey, why should he?All they do is win, he'll get paid and he'll win. Vancouver isn't on the same echelon with New Jersey, Vancouver needs to get out of the 2nd round before we annoit them cup contenders because until they dump Cloutier they will not get there. And if they lose Naslund and sign Niedermayer are they getting better?I don't think so because they already have a good defense.

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08-31-2004, 05:10 PM
  #49
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Plus Kariya left to get a better deal, anyone with a brain knows it. Anaheim offered him a 3 year 18 million dollar deal, he tried to leech off of Sakic and Forsberg to build up his stats and get a big contract. Money was everything the guy is a tightwad, How anyone cannot see it as a financial move is beyond me, do you really think he would have signed a deal like that just because he wanted to play in Colorado and then become a UFA the next year?

Seriously, it's not hard to figure out.

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08-31-2004, 05:32 PM
  #50
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To assume Neidermayer is leaving NJ after this season is just that, an assumption. A jump to conclusion, a premature guess.

Regardless, Lou L. does not move players in fear of losing them to UFA. Like a majority of NHL GMs, and unlike too many people here, he seeks to give his team the best opportunity to win in a given year, as opposed to worrying needlessly about what his franchise will suffer down the road.

That is not to suggest that he doesn't plan ahead; he does. But making moves based on fear is useless. Win now, worry later. Or put another way. Better to have Niedermayer for 2004-05 only and give yourself your best chance to win another Cup, than to have lesser players for a longer duration.

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