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How would you feel about Tanking?

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Old
10-20-2011, 12:47 AM
  #126
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
and to be fair a total tank should get a team more than one top draft pick because the tanking team can also sell off vets at the trade deadline when their value is high for contenders, so maybe a couple picks and prospects added there. but i still am against it
contenders usually draft from 25 to 30th, you sure arent going to get your top picks from them...

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Old
10-20-2011, 12:49 AM
  #127
Mr. Hab
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
the key will be the youngsters...

we already know Cammy will be a beast again, Plek will shutdown the opposing line completely, Gill will extend his "elite reach" (lol), etc... we already know all that...

question is, how will Pacc fare in the PO, and Diaz, and Emelin, etc... will they also have enough time to developp properly, will they learn the team system quickly enough, will they be intimidated (added pressure) ? that's where it all lies IMO.
For sure, our youngsters have a great chance this season to pitch in and help. But...

IMO, the key will be the health of our top 4 Dmen (Subban, Gorges, Gill, Campoli...and hope Emelin, Diaz, Weber get more than enough games this eason to be fully prepared for the REAL SEASON. Unfortunately I have to pretend that Markov won't be there to prevent me from being too hopeful and then being let down again by him and his fragile body... it would of course be great if he can be there for our top 4... Subban, Gorges, Markov, Gill and/or Campoli). Weber, Emelin, Diaz...they are all a nice bonus if they could learn and not be a burden in the minus column...I expect some good things from Weber...and we can't put too much pressure on the young ones for their first playoffs (Weber had a few games only), of course I expect them to be defensively responsible and to help anyway they can. I'll put more pressure on Emelin and Diaz for playoffs 2012-2013 (especially Weber).

The other key (factor) will be Carey Price, of course. We'll just hope he gets hot at the right time and is hungry. Not worried about Price and/or Subban for playoffs.

Last but not least...I will hope most of our forwards will be rested and healthy and hungry. We should be able to depend on our veterans and then younger ones...in order: Pleks, Cammalleri, Gomez, Gionta, Cole, Moen, A.Kosts, Eller, Desharnais, Pacioretty (1st playoffs), White....

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Old
10-20-2011, 12:56 AM
  #128
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Great attitude to teach the kids. "hey patches, what are you doing? I told you not to score, dumbass!"

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Old
10-20-2011, 01:06 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
Yep, honestly.. Wiz should have been signed over Markov, for a variety of reasons.

I understand Markov bleeds Blue, Blanc et Rouge, but this is a business, after all.. the guy is one big hit or awkward fall away from retirement.
It's always easy in retrospect for me or other Hab fans to write this but I really would have signed Wiz instead of Markov, BUT only for 3 years, not 5-6-7 years at the salary Wiz is making right now.

Wiz did waht he wanted to do...get as amny years as possible at a very high salary.
I honestly owuldn't want his contract right now. But 3 years of Wiz, no problem.

I hope I'm wrong (want to be), but to me Markov is maybe a few games away from retirement but he may want to stretch rehab, setback, injury+rehab as long as he can collect his 5,75mil/year for the next 3 years. I hope if this is the case that our Habs can somehow ditch his contract and find a SOLID top 4 dman (not injury prone is priority,imo).

And, not sure Markov bleeds Bleu, Blanc, Rouge, but I've been wrong before...and in this case really want to be. Yes, I am one of those fans who is really happy when I see Markov smile like a kid when he's on the ice when we score. But boy! Seems like a long time ago since I've seen that! Hope to see that again but I'm not going to hold my breath 'cause of his extremely fragile body.

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Old
10-20-2011, 02:32 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Jimmym007 View Post
Am I the only one who's happier and happier everytime I see habs lose? Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard habs fan and would love more than seeing a cup in mtl in my lifetime, but when I see 2012 draft prospects and habs losing record, I can't help but to see a much brighter future.
Happens every year on the year...the Habs lose a couple - three games and the odd fans want to tank the season.

Why you want to give up the year after 5 games? The team is skating well. Dominated most of the last game, outshot the Sabres 40-23. Miller has stole a lot of games for the Sabres over last few years. Don't let that be black mark on Habs. Miller is best goalie in game at the moment. We lost the Avs game due to some really bad calls.

This team could easily be 3-1-1 without 3 of our defensemen and our top goal scorer. The wins will come, get some core players back and see what we have around mid-season. Put a package trade together for a first line center, this team be cup contender. Came within a whisker of beating the Bruins last year

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Old
10-20-2011, 02:39 AM
  #131
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How about you guys tank next year and leave Yakupov to us k?

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Old
10-20-2011, 03:28 AM
  #132
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Tanking is for sissies.

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10-20-2011, 04:32 AM
  #133
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Tanking is for Pansies ...

Tanking after 5 games is for stupid pansies !

Men ... wake up ... no girl, no friend, no employer, no client will want to deal with you.
Wake up and feel the power of love and faith.

morality : go to church and learn positivisme.

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Old
10-20-2011, 05:49 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by torero View Post
morality : go to church and learn positivisme.
Yes, go to church, pray for whatever you want (tanking or Stanley Cup) and you will become happy! On top of that, it will happen!



AHHHHHH!!! The Holy Grail!! Let's drink wine from it!

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Old
10-20-2011, 06:16 AM
  #135
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morality : go to church and learn positivisme.
I don't think this means what you think it means.

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Old
10-20-2011, 09:07 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Great attitude to teach the kids. "hey patches, what are you doing? I told you not to score, dumbass!"
Is there anything wrong with trading away players who have no fit in a winning team or the mark-up of the team you want? Giving ice-time to youngsters and letting them develop?

Would you honestly be upset if we managed to off-load Moen, Gomez, Gionta, Darche, Spacek, Gill and Campoli. Getting picks and prospects, promoting youngsters from the farm? Losing games because of lack of depth, inexperience, but also giving players like Eller a chance to develop into an offensive center?

Lose games, end up with a bottom 5 pick, have a crack at a guy like Grigorenko and rebuild from free-agency with some experienced players, have experience given to the youngsters and have a better evaluation of what they can do at the NHL level?

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Old
10-20-2011, 09:30 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Would you honestly be upset if we managed to off-load Moen, Gomez, Gionta, Darche, Spacek, Gill and Campoli. Getting picks and prospects, promoting youngsters from the farm? Losing games because of lack of depth, inexperience, but also giving players like Eller a chance to develop into an offensive center?
I would because I don't think that is how you develop mid level talent. I think mid level talent like Eller, MaxPac etc... need to be brought along slowly. Look at what happened to MaxPac when we tried to rush him. It wasn't until we slowed down his development, that he started to be more consistent and produce.

Its also why you see players like Ribeiro, SK, Latendresse, etc... go on to have more successful careers outside of Montreal. Because we didn't give them the time to properly develop when they were younger and we rushed them to a degree imo.

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Old
10-20-2011, 09:44 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Is there anything wrong with trading away players who have no fit in a winning team or the mark-up of the team you want? Giving ice-time to youngsters and letting them develop?

Would you honestly be upset if we managed to off-load Moen, Gomez, Gionta, Darche, Spacek, Gill and Campoli. Getting picks and prospects, promoting youngsters from the farm? Losing games because of lack of depth, inexperience, but also giving players like Eller a chance to develop into an offensive center?

Lose games, end up with a bottom 5 pick, have a crack at a guy like Grigorenko and rebuild from free-agency with some experienced players, have experience given to the youngsters and have a better evaluation of what they can do at the NHL level?
That would suck. I bet all those people that spent big money on season tickets would just love to hear we are getting rid of a bunch of vets for picks and prospects.

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Old
10-20-2011, 09:56 AM
  #139
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About the rebuilding process, i think that some here need to realize that no one chose to rebuild. Never.
First, it almost always mean that the entire staff is kicked out. GM+HC, at the very least. You dont take the decision to lose your own job. Because it often means that you dont believe in what you've done...

Even if you're a bubble team, like Carolina for instance, who usually sits around the 9th spot, you can still improve slightly, and progressively, your team can be much more solid if you are doing correctly your job.
Business-wise, its also a huge risk to start from scratch.

An owner is going to take the safe route. You may not win the Cup, but finishing consistently at 6th or 7th is good enough for almost anyone. Then, you dont need that much to build from this, just avoiding bad decisions.


Anyway, for the process in itself, to start it, either you're broke or/and dont have the money to ice a competitive team, either you're way too mediocre at it is right now to have a decent hope to be part of the playoffs, and its the same problem for years.

Just look at the last teams to have a 1st overall pick.
Pittsburgh was without any money and Tampa did have some owner issues, plus a very unbalanced team.
Chicago and LA (i know, they did not draft 1st overall, but still), were stucked into that hole, not good enough to have a decent shot at PO, but not bad enough to be last. We're not talking about bubble teams, they were more like 10th or 12th.

The fastest (in the sense that they decide it quickly) rebuild may have been Washington's one, who decide to start a new team even after being in PO the year before, but it was understandable.
None of their key-players were under 30, and they started the season...horribly.
(I think that they started by trading Jagr at the mid-way point of the season. They did won only 11 of the 41 games until then...)

The point is that, considering the age of the MVP of the team, and the fact that this same team did play in PO during the last 2 years, no one is going to start a rebuilding plan right now.
It could be in Montreal or a smaller market, Milbury or Bowman, its just impossible to do it that early in the season, obviously, but even then, in the NHL, teams are rebuilding because they're forced to.

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Old
10-20-2011, 09:59 AM
  #140
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First thing that comes to mind when I think of tanking is **** that.

Get to the playoffs. Anything can happen.

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Old
10-20-2011, 10:03 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Great attitude to teach the kids. "hey patches, what are you doing? I told you not to score, dumbass!"
This post just sums up how out to lunch folks like you are in terms of rebuilding. I'm not sure if you're distorting the rebuilding argument here or if you really just aren't smart enough to understand it.

Either way, this is completely off base from what anyone would argue we should do to rebuild the team.

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Old
10-20-2011, 10:34 AM
  #142
montreal
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I would because I don't think that is how you develop mid level talent. I think mid level talent like Eller, MaxPac etc... need to be brought along slowly. Look at what happened to MaxPac when we tried to rush him. It wasn't until we slowed down his development, that he started to be more consistent and produce.

Its also why you see players like Ribeiro, SK, Latendresse, etc... go on to have more successful careers outside of Montreal. Because we didn't give them the time to properly develop when they were younger and we rushed them to a degree imo.
Agreed, I like to see us bring along our prospects slowly unless they really dominate at the AHL level like say Subban did and even then at least he spent most of the year in the AHL. Will be interesting to see how they handle Beaulieu, Gallagher and others going forward.

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Old
10-20-2011, 10:47 AM
  #143
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This thread is blasphemy! We have settled for mediocrity for way to long...finally the attitude up top is starting to change and you want to return back to 2001? Blasphemy!

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Old
10-20-2011, 10:53 AM
  #144
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the best year to tank is this year or next year ! People underestimate yakupov and mckannon .those 2 will put 70-80 points in their first year in the NHL and 90-100 the year after.

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10-20-2011, 10:54 AM
  #145
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Grigorenko would have an immediate impact next season.

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Old
10-20-2011, 11:34 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Andros777 View Post
I WOULD love to get Nathan Mackinnon next year, but I wouldn't tank.

You meant Yakupov

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Old
10-20-2011, 11:38 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I see. You'll lower yourself by calling rebuilders non-fans instead?

Sure it's a different game... so what?

The principles are the same. Give up some of your present for the future. Pollock did this all the time. Other clubs didn't understand this principle and that's why he was able to succeed.

No doubt clubs understand the value of the draft better now and nobody is just going to hand you a 1st overall pick but the principle of sacrifice now for later still has value and clubs still do this today. For some reason though, you think that this is the cowards way out. You want a more recent example? Okay, how about Niewendyke for Iginla? Is that better? Should we hate all the Calgary fans that love Iggy too?

By your measurement the Calgary GM was a coward for recognizing that his club wasn't good enough to win and trading away his best player in order to improve in the future. I think you've got this completely backwards. The guy had balls of steel to do what he did and he was rewarded for it. But at least he made a move to try to win in the future. That's not cowardly, it's a smart bold move.

What hate for MaxPac? I think he's great and I'm glad we gave up a vet for the draft pick that landed us him.

This of course is exactly the kind of move that rebuilders are for and what you've said is the cowards way out...

Go read my post again.

Some are good. None are great... and you're completely missing what I wrote.

What you have said is that rebuilders are cowards and it makes no sense to make moves that might not benefit us now but could in the future. And I strongly disagree with you on this.
I don't think is the cowardly way when it comes to rebuilding. if our team was crp then rebuild but its not crap at all. Thats the point im making in short. Tanking and purposely losing games is cowardly and you agree with me on that from your previous post, so we actuality agree on that. but we are in a league were in the offseason we could sign a top caliber player, rumor has it we wer even in on Richards this past summer, so its not like habs management isn't trying. As for Calgary I live there and I think Jay Feaster is doing a great job here in calgary because hes doing it the right way. I'm done with this though we obviously have different opinions so leave it at that.

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Old
10-20-2011, 12:25 PM
  #148
Jabba11
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Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
You meant Yakupov
No, he really meant MacKinnon. And I will take MacKinnon over Yakupov, no hesitation.

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Old
10-20-2011, 12:34 PM
  #149
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No, he really meant MacKinnon. And I will take MacKinnon over Yakupov, no hesitation.
Me too. Kid is real good.

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Old
10-20-2011, 12:46 PM
  #150
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I feel the notion of tanking is simplistic and attractive to fantasy hockey participants, and has no place in reality.

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