LOL that was a great call by you... did not think we would steal 2 in their building, thats why you play em...
Also helps that I work with a huge Habs fan, and I'll have heard about the last week or so is how much they've been struggling. He can't wait to see JM fired.
Also helps that I work with a huge Habs fan, and I'll have heard about the last week or so is how much they've been struggling. He can't wait to see JM fired.
CW, share with us. How much is their slow start JM's fault? Im not a JM fan, his teams are so boring, plus he picked our last coach whom you know how i feel about; but i dont follow each habs game close enough to opine on this.
CW, share with us. How much is their slow start JM's fault? Im not a JM fan, his teams are so boring, plus he picked our last coach whom you know how i feel about; but i dont follow each habs game close enough to opine on this.
I think it boils down to what I think, and my fellow co-worker agrees, and that's JM style of coaching is outdated. He coaches a boring style, and it doesn't work anymore.
Part of the problem they had against us was when we were trapping in the neutral zone, they weren't adjusting their game plan. They weren't trying to figure out how to break that pattern. JM is stubborn (as I'm sure we all remember).
My coworker is fed up with watching the team play lackluster hockey and seeing guys like Cole do nothing. He wants a shakeup to wake the team up, and he really feels that the team has turned on JM and are just playing to get him fired (remember, Jokinen did the same thing in FLA...)
It's not going to be a fun season for the Habs methinks, unless they do something soon. But apparently JM is old buddies with the Habs ownership & GM so he may not be going anywhere anytime soon.
I think it boils down to what I think, and my fellow co-worker agrees, and that's JM style of coaching is outdated. He coaches a boring style, and it doesn't work anymore.
Part of the problem they had against us was when we were trapping in the neutral zone, they weren't adjusting their game plan. They weren't trying to figure out how to break that pattern. JM is stubborn (as I'm sure we all remember).
My coworker is fed up with watching the team play lackluster hockey and seeing guys like Cole do nothing. He wants a shakeup to wake the team up, and he really feels that the team has turned on JM and are just playing to get him fired (remember, Jokinen did the same thing in FLA...)
It's not going to be a fun season for the Habs methinks, unless they do something soon. But apparently JM is old buddies with the Habs ownership & GM so he may not be going anywhere anytime soon.
so that means... it's true? i see. so he somehow magically had success in montreal for a couple of seasons (including the playoffs) and now the magic's gone and his coaching doesn't work again?
and breaking a trap is some new-fangled strategy that JM can't wrap his head around?
I am impartial toward Martin; if I'm being fair, I'd have to say they more than likely beat us were it not for Markstrom's great performance. There's nothing a coach can do about that.
I am impartial toward Martin; if I'm being fair, I'd have to say they more than likely beat us were it not for Markstrom's great performance. There's nothing a coach can do about that.
I dont know Erick I thought we beat them in the neutral zone more often then not and the two forward forecheck played real well. I think Dineen outcoached JM on this day. JM was so clueless at the end of the game he forgot to pull the goalie ... the asst coach had to jump in.
Dineen's doing amazing and we are all taking note of it at the arena.
I dont know Erick I thought we beat them in the neutral zone more often then not and the two forward forecheck played real well. I think Dineen outcoached JM on this day. JM was so clueless at the end of the game he forgot to pull the goalie ... the asst coach had to jump in.
Dineen's doing amazing and we are all taking note of it at the arena.
I agree with that, certainly.
I'm just saying they had their fair share of glorious scoring chances in that game, and Markstrom stopped them. On two of them, I'd say he made miraculous saves which ultimately ended up being the difference in the game's result.
Realistically speaking, the only reason why this is a story is because it's Montreal and, like, God forbid the Montreal Canadiens don't win.
If you look at their roster, they're just not talented enough to be a very good team. They're a team that if everything goes well can be a bubble team down the stretch, especially because they have good goaltending in Carey Price.
Most analysts have been bashing our team saying we have no chance, but if you compare the rosters, you could make the case that the Panthers have the more talented roster.
Who do the Canadiens have? Their forwards just aren't talented enough, imo. People continue to talk about us overpaying players, but isn't Montreal the best case of that? They have two of the most overpaid forwards in the game (Gomez, Cole).
They're just not that good.
I think they have a lot of names on their roster who were once good but are now rather washed up.
They've also let go of some talent over the years like Streit, etc. When you keep making dumb moves, it catches up with you, sooner or later.
I'm just saying they had their fair share of glorious scoring chances in that game, and Markstrom stopped them. On two of them, I'd say he made miraculous saves which ultimately ended up being the difference in the game's result.
Realistically speaking, the only reason why this is a story is because it's Montreal and, like, God forbid the Montreal Canadiens don't win.
If you look at their roster, they're just not talented enough to be a very good team. They're a team that if everything goes well can be a bubble team down the stretch, especially because they have good goaltending in Carey Price.
Most analysts have been bashing our team saying we have no chance, but if you compare the rosters, you could make the case that the Panthers have the more talented roster.
Who do the Canadiens have? Their forwards just aren't talented enough, imo. People continue to talk about us overpaying players, but isn't Montreal the best case of that? They have two of the most overpaid forwards in the game (Gomez, Cole).
They're just not that good.
I think they have a lot of names on their roster who were once good but are now rather washed up.
They've also let go of some talent over the years like Streit, etc. When you keep making dumb moves, it catches up with you, sooner or later.
I dont know Erick I thought we beat them in the neutral zone more often then not and the two forward forecheck played real well. I think Dineen outcoached JM on this day. JM was so clueless at the end of the game he forgot to pull the goalie ... the asst coach had to jump in.
Dineen's doing amazing and we are all taking note of it at the arena.
Either way, we gave up about 10 more shots than we took. Any game in which you give up 40 shots is gonna be a tough game to win. We definitely didn't help ourselves in that 3rd period, other than the Upshall goal.
But i'm sure Dineen took note of the shout count, and will give a nice hard practice before the Sens game.
so that means... it's true? i see. so he somehow magically had success in montreal for a couple of seasons (including the playoffs) and now the magic's gone and his coaching doesn't work again?
and breaking a trap is some new-fangled strategy that JM can't wrap his head around?
I've always felt this way about JM, even when he coached the Panthers and before that with Ottawa.
I used the trap as an example of how maybe the team isn't listening to JM anymore OR he isn't trying to adjust to in one game only. Should've made that clearer (thats what happens I guess when I'm trying to sneak posts in at work! )
You could also argue that Halak played a larger role in the playoffs than JM's coaching ever did two years ago. (To play devil's advocate).
I just don't like him as a coach, and now the Mtl fans in my office at least are starting to turn on him. I'll happily admit to my own bias.
But yeah- sounds like the magic is gone in Montreal... everyone needs a scapegoat. The fans I'm with here at the office all seem to be pointing their finger in that direction, that's for sure.
I've always felt this way about JM, even when he coached the Panthers and before that with Ottawa.
I used the trap as an example of how maybe the team isn't listening to JM anymore OR he isn't trying to adjust to in one game only. Should've made that clearer (thats what happens I guess when I'm trying to sneak posts in at work! )
You could also argue that Halak played a larger role in the playoffs than JM's coaching ever did two years ago. (To play devil's advocate).
I just don't like him as a coach, and now the Mtl fans in my office at least are starting to turn on him. I'll happily admit to my own bias.
But yeah- sounds like the magic is gone in Montreal... everyone needs a scapegoat. The fans I'm with here at the office all seem to be pointing their finger in that direction, that's for sure.
JM seems to want out too. With 2 years left and a million dollars bonus if he gets kicked out ... people are wondering if he still want to go through all the crap that Montreal is throwing at him.
The thing that sparked that thought is that Carbonneau (the ex-coach) got fire by playing a defensemen as a foward and yesterday JM did the exact same thing in the lineup ...
The thing that sparked that thought is that Carbonneau (the ex-coach) got fire by playing a defensemen as a foward and yesterday JM did the exact same thing in the lineup ...
I've always felt this way about JM, even when he coached the Panthers and before that with Ottawa.
I used the trap as an example of how maybe the team isn't listening to JM anymore OR he isn't trying to adjust to in one game only. Should've made that clearer (thats what happens I guess when I'm trying to sneak posts in at work! )
You could also argue that Halak played a larger role in the playoffs than JM's coaching ever did two years ago. (To play devil's advocate).
I just don't like him as a coach, and now the Mtl fans in my office at least are starting to turn on him. I'll happily admit to my own bias.
But yeah- sounds like the magic is gone in Montreal... everyone needs a scapegoat. The fans I'm with here at the office all seem to be pointing their finger in that direction, that's for sure.
well, you've consistently mirrored prevailing opinion. so? i would argue it's a bad rap and have done so in great detail here.
and your trap example is a bad one. we were playing a straight up 1-2-2 neutral zone trap only after the 2nd goal and there were maybe a handful of rushes at most that ran up against it. we (the players *on the ice*) executed very well and montreal, at home and struggling with their confidence, tried to do too much individually. however, any nhl player will tell you in a blink of an eye how to deal with that trap. the mistakes made on the ice had nothing to do with JM. in fact, teams fail in that manner all the time. that's why the trap is so effective! JM knew that was coming before you and i did and knows exactly how to attack it but he can't go out there and make the plays. i think that fans turn on him because he's not the firebrand they want but rather more of a funny looking guy who nerds out on the game. the fact of the matter is that he's had an incredibly successful career coaching in the nhl. he had success in FLA with a middling team and again in MTL with another middling team. this is not an accident. he's a good coach. was and is.
halak played a role two years ago, certainly. a bubble team talent-wise never goes far in the playoffs without several players and/or a goalie getting hot. what about last year? a good season and a game 7 OT loss to the eventual cup champions? regardless, JM *was* the coach. halak/price didn't win games by themselves, overcoming out-dated coaching. doesn't that sound pretty far-fetched? well it is. the games weren't boring either. fans are completely subjective, over-emotional and, sometimes, completely ignorant. so it's no surprise that they are now looking to throw JM under a bus. that's what happens when teams lose. even teams that aren't that talented and are dealing with some big injuries.
to keep it current, the latest news is that his friend and assistant coach pearns was fired tonight. i think we are seeing a quick realization that JM is missing muller as a translator.
closer to home, i noticed a quoted comment by someone talking how amazing dineen's doing and i have to laugh. i think dineen's looked flabbergasted at times on the bench. and he's not jumping up and down and screaming, either. and the team's looked incredibly disorganized this year up until last game. to look at dineen now with this team, at all of his interviews and compare them to pete's from the past 3 years... (yes, i watch all the player, coach and GM interviews that GR posts every day, the pre and post game interviews posted on panthers.nhl.com) you get a fuller picture. dineen's in a good situation here and he's got very good people around him and a much better, more cohesive and dynamic team to work with. i like him and of course am rooting for him. but i'm not stupid - the team's not 5-3 because dineen's doing a fantastic job. i guarantee you not even dineen would agree with that. he'd be embarrassed for the person suggesting it.
Well zero, we can just agree to call it a day. This topic is already off the rails.
You have a different idea on JM than I, and all's fair.
I'd like to get back to the task at hand- Ottawa tonight! Everyone's rested, and Ottawa has had a day off too. Should be an interesting game. I'm still hoping for two points.
I've always felt this way about JM, even when he coached the Panthers and before that with Ottawa.
I used the trap as an example of how maybe the team isn't listening to JM anymore OR he isn't trying to adjust to in one game only. Should've made that clearer (thats what happens I guess when I'm trying to sneak posts in at work! )
You could also argue that Halak played a larger role in the playoffs than JM's coaching ever did two years ago. (To play devil's advocate).
I just don't like him as a coach, and now the Mtl fans in my office at least are starting to turn on him. I'll happily admit to my own bias.
But yeah- sounds like the magic is gone in Montreal... everyone needs a scapegoat. The fans I'm with here at the office all seem to be pointing their finger in that direction, that's for sure.
CW, i apologize for the rudeness of the poster you are encountering, i promise you this is the exception and not the rule here on HF. You know more in one finger than the poster might, but dont spend all day trying to prove it. The ignore button works very well on this board.
"hats off to kevin dineen"!!! Thats the quote from NHL on the fly, true experts not middle school coaches. As they say, under Pete the bore, they were lacking identity. Finally, under Dineen, they have a 2 man aggressive forecheck etc. etc. AS they said Dineen is giving them the structure they have lacked under the bore. When you have a 3 time Captain and successful NHL'er who is vociferous behind the bench and proactive with timeouts etc., its a different game.
Back on topic... Hoping for a great effort tonight get a W and meet the 5 game quota!!!!
i think jaffe's comments were right on with regard to the montreal game. did i say anything different? i commented in the game thread that we looked much more organized in every facet of the game than we had before and gave dineen props. and i wasn't being hard on dineen above or saying he was a bad coach; it takes time to get a new bunch of guys all on the same page.
i don't think his comment about deboer is very fair - pete had a completely different team and we all know that he came in here with a very aggressive philosophy (more aggressive than what we saw in montreal, imo). and when they were on, they were impressive. it was only after he realized what he was dealing with that he pulled in the reigns and tried to win more conservatively. his teams were always well organized and always competed hard, though. does anybody argue that?
anyhow... did not intend to diss dineen as a coach or in general. i like him. just pointing out that the team won it's previous 4 games in spite of the lack of organization and discipline (because we have some better players now who made some plays). and that's fine; it's early in the season.
What a frustrating game. Those PP's should've given us the lead and the win. Buffalo is going to be tough- but hopefully they can rebound. Would be nice to help close out October (aside from Winnipeg on Monday)
I dont care how they win or lose they just need to get 6 points in 5 games. We still have one more game to get those 6 points.
If we beat Buffalo, im just going to think that we should of had at least 7pts in these 5 games. I mean, all we had to do was clear the puck and we get a point. This one hurts.
If we beat Buffalo, im just going to think that we should of had at least 7pts in these 5 games. I mean, all we had to do was clear the puck and we get a point. This one hurts.
These are the games that good teams win. Good teams do not make mental lapses in those scenarios. It's absolutely unacceptable for that to have happened. Are we a good team? Not yet. We may get there. This loss helps us get closer to that point than stealing another win, if and only if we learn from it and lock it down when needed. I wonder who will be sitting when Samuelsson can make it back in. Wouldn't be surprised to see some guys in the pressbox after tonight's meltdown to send a message.
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