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Old
10-19-2011, 07:38 PM
  #51
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no thanks. he hasn't lived up to the promise. his one good season in the AHL (24-39-63) compared to Anisimov's (37-44-81), the fact that we have Richards and Anisimov as our 1-2. Don't really see how he's gonna fit in. He's not really known as a 2-way center which will immediately put him in Tort's doghouse. Just not a good fit IMO.

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10-19-2011, 07:43 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
no thanks. he hasn't lived up to the promise. his one good season in the AHL (24-39-63) compared to Anisimov's (37-44-81), the fact that we have Richards and Anisimov as our 1-2. Don't really see how he's gonna fit in. He's not really known as a 2-way center which will immediately put him in Tort's doghouse. Just not a good fit IMO.
I am pretty sure he has played wing as well.

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10-19-2011, 07:53 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I am pretty sure he has played wing as well.
myeh, i guess i'm responding to the notion that we have to send someone like Anisimov, Stepan, or Kreider for him. No way is he worth those guys. Not a good fit.

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10-19-2011, 11:40 PM
  #54
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I'd rather not. The only place where Turris turns into anything more than solid is NHL 12.

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10-20-2011, 06:37 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
youre crazy if you think thats what a potential return for him would be. AA and Stepan have both outperformed him by a considerable margin.

Turris(22 years old) NHL numbers: 46pts in 131 games (.35PPG)
AA (23 years old): 74 in 169 games (.44PPG)
Stepan (21 years old): 45 in 86 (.52PPG)


right now the only players id be looking to move for turris would be Wade Redden and Wojtek Wolski.
No offense Inferno, but here are the real number comparisons for Turris, AA, and Stepan, which takes into consideration not only games played but time on the ice, which is crucial to deciding what the points per game truly are on an equal playing field. Basically, I take the number of games played (make sure that you divide the minutes by 60 to get decimals), multiply by time on the ice, figure out how many whole games that comes out to, and then compare the stats.

Turris--65 games in 2010-11 @ 11:16 TOI per game; 25 points. 732.55 minutes for the season, divided by full games is 12.21 games.
63 games in 2008-09 @ 12:55 TOI per game; 20 points. 813.96 minutes, 13.57 full games.
3 games in 2007-08 @ 19:45 TOI per game; 1 point. 59.25 minutes; .99 games.

Total full games for Turris is 26.77 with 46 points. That's 1.72 points per game.

AA--82 games in 2010-11 @ 16:12 TOI per game; 44 points. 22.14 games.
82 games in 2009-10@ 12:54 TOI per game; 28 points. 17.63 games.

Total full games thus far for AA is 39.77 with 72 points. That's 1.81 points per game.


Stepan--82 games in 2010-11 @ 16:26 TOI per game; 45 points. 22.45 minutes per game with 45 points. That's just above 2.00 points per full game.

In essence, in his career, Turris has been as effective in offensive production as AA has been. In his single season, Stepan has beaten them both.

Turris still has quite a bit of potential and is definitely an NHL player. Don't be so quick to write him off.

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Old
10-21-2011, 01:14 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Treff View Post
No offense Inferno, but here are the real number comparisons for Turris, AA, and Stepan, which takes into consideration not only games played but time on the ice, which is crucial to deciding what the points per game truly are on an equal playing field. Basically, I take the number of games played (make sure that you divide the minutes by 60 to get decimals), multiply by time on the ice, figure out how many whole games that comes out to, and then compare the stats.

Turris--65 games in 2010-11 @ 11:16 TOI per game; 25 points. 732.55 minutes for the season, divided by full games is 12.21 games.
63 games in 2008-09 @ 12:55 TOI per game; 20 points. 813.96 minutes, 13.57 full games.
3 games in 2007-08 @ 19:45 TOI per game; 1 point. 59.25 minutes; .99 games.

Total full games for Turris is 26.77 with 46 points. That's 1.72 points per game.

AA--82 games in 2010-11 @ 16:12 TOI per game; 44 points. 22.14 games.
82 games in 2009-10@ 12:54 TOI per game; 28 points. 17.63 games.

Total full games thus far for AA is 39.77 with 72 points. That's 1.81 points per game.


Stepan--82 games in 2010-11 @ 16:26 TOI per game; 45 points. 22.45 minutes per game with 45 points. That's just above 2.00 points per full game.

In essence, in his career, Turris has been as effective in offensive production as AA has been. In his single season, Stepan has beaten them both.

Turris still has quite a bit of potential and is definitely an NHL player. Don't be so quick to write him off.
just looking at it little deepr....heres just the 10/11 numbers...

AA: Total TOI in 10/11:1,329:02
Broken down it's
1,096:50 of ES time
84:44 of SH time (~6.3% of total TOI)
and 147:28 of PP time.

Stepan: total TOI: 1,348:24
ES: 1,117:27
SH: 36:53 (~2.7% of total TOI)
PP: 194:04

Turris: 732:45
ES: 633:30
SH: 5:13 (~0.7% of total TOI)
PP: 94:02


Turris plays very little on the PK, whereas both Stepan and AA see proportionately significantly more time on the PK (and thus fewer minutes on the PP and at ES) than Turris.


The full game calculation that you are doing is a little weird, and im not sure i understand why youre doing it when the total TOI stat works just as well. I mean, i guess you can say then that AA spend a game and a period last year doing nothing but penalty killing...and AA played a little over 1/2 a game on the PK, whereas Turris spent 1/4th of 1 period on the PK. He also sees more time the AA on the PP, again proportionately...but Stepan plays more than them both, though thats not surprising given Stepans skill set. AA plays elite level D, Turris doesnt. I cant even remotely compare these 2 players.

Anyways, ill just leave my opinion as it is, i have ZERO interest in Turris. NONE.

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Old
10-21-2011, 07:43 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
just looking at it little deepr....heres just the 10/11 numbers...

AA: Total TOI in 10/11:1,329:02
Broken down it's
1,096:50 of ES time
84:44 of SH time (~6.3% of total TOI)
and 147:28 of PP time.

Stepan: total TOI: 1,348:24
ES: 1,117:27
SH: 36:53 (~2.7% of total TOI)
PP: 194:04

Turris: 732:45
ES: 633:30
SH: 5:13 (~0.7% of total TOI)
PP: 94:02


Turris plays very little on the PK, whereas both Stepan and AA see proportionately significantly more time on the PK (and thus fewer minutes on the PP and at ES) than Turris.


The full game calculation that you are doing is a little weird, and im not sure i understand why youre doing it when the total TOI stat works just as well. I mean, i guess you can say then that AA spend a game and a period last year doing nothing but penalty killing...and AA played a little over 1/2 a game on the PK, whereas Turris spent 1/4th of 1 period on the PK. He also sees more time the AA on the PP, again proportionately...but Stepan plays more than them both, though thats not surprising given Stepans skill set. AA plays elite level D, Turris doesnt. I cant even remotely compare these 2 players.

Anyways, ill just leave my opinion as it is, i have ZERO interest in Turris. NONE.
I understand, Inferno. All I am suggesting with this is that when you are pointing out stats to compare production, as you did above, there has to be some way to even up the time on the ice per game or the numbers comparison is not meaningful. You have correctly pointed out that I probably should not have included PK time, but then you also would have to take out any points that any of the players posted on the PK to do an offensive comparison.

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Old
10-21-2011, 10:03 AM
  #58
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Why would we trade for Turris? We don't need another reclamation project. Who is he gonna replace on the top6? What we need is someone that can step into a top6 wing and perform better than what we currently have. If we want to upgrade top6, we will have to trade one of our top6 and that is not likely to happen anytime soon.

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10-21-2011, 12:27 PM
  #59
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Take my view of him in light of the fact that I've not seen a ton of him lately -- but I would hardly call him a reclamation project yet.

He is a very good player who was rushed to the NHL maybe, and who has played behind two other centers who has done a really good job the last couple of years. You cannot produce on a third line on a defensive team like that.

I defintely think Turris is on par with Stepan. Maybe a little notch above him even. Today.

Personally I just cannot accept that you can be in a situation were you do NOT need a player like that. I'd definitely take him and I'd give up alot to get him and I'd pay him alot (like 3.5m per).

Like I just can't believe that we could not fit him into the lineup.

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10-21-2011, 12:32 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashiva View Post
Why would we trade for Turris? We don't need another reclamation project. Who is he gonna replace on the top6? What we need is someone that can step into a top6 wing and perform better than what we currently have. If we want to upgrade top6, we will have to trade one of our top6 and that is not likely to happen anytime soon.
He could very well be a 75 pts players within 12 months. Who on this team would than prevent him from being our NR 1 forward?

Look, I don't k ow the kid. If he has "issues" and don't work extremely hard, it don't matter how talented he is he could "bust". But the kid has alot of gods like no doubt... He ain't extremely fast, but besides that he is almost elite all over the board.

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Old
10-22-2011, 02:41 PM
  #61
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Which is pretty dumb since if he's not good enough to get $4 mill he's asking for, he's not good enough to be traded for those players (well maybe Kreider)

But I understand Phoenix doesn't really want to trade him

All that said, Turis woudl becoming into a tough situation where would have to outplay a bunch of guys already entrenched in order to get top six minutes
No. Kreider has too much upside.

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10-22-2011, 03:18 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Guys, don't look too far ahead. Who knows if Stepan stays at center or moves to wing permanently like Dubinsky? A few years ago we thought we were good with Anisimov + Dubinsky as the future centers. Anisimov is still here.

Who is to say Miller remains a center or becomes a power forward winger?

The question is very simple:

Can the Rangers get Turris for less than 100 cents on the dollar? If the answer is yes, than you pull the trigger and add talent to the organization. If not, then look elsewhere.
Spot on^. Don't immediately see smaller deal. How about Turris a throw in on something bigger?

Keith Yandle + Kyle Turris for Girardi + Sauer + Ryam Bourque + Christiansen + Kolarik (salary dump)

Sure 'yotes would want Sauer straigjt up, not happening, but this maybe...?

Yandle is heart of their D, but their D gets 2 solid additions; Bourque will hustle and may bring something before he gets run over; EC + Kolarik are throw-ins.

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10-22-2011, 03:49 PM
  #63
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Phoenix is going to want value players for him; from their point of view, I'd be looking at Fasth (untouchable IMO) and Kundratek as starting points. To which I say no *** way.

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10-22-2011, 03:54 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Spot on^. Don't immediately see smaller deal. How about Turris a throw in on something bigger?

Keith Yandle + Kyle Turris for Girardi + Sauer + Ryam Bourque + Christiansen + Kolarik (salary dump)

Sure 'yotes would want Sauer straigjt up, not happening, but this maybe...?

Yandle is heart of their D, but their D gets 2 solid additions; Bourque will hustle and may bring something before he gets run over; EC + Kolarik are throw-ins.
Kolarik hasn't been on the Rangers in quite some time. At this point, Bourque and Christensen don't have much value so it's Girardi+Sauer for Yandle+Turris... Phoenix laughs a lot and hangs up.

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10-23-2011, 10:25 AM
  #65
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Kolarik hasn't been on the Rangers in quite some time. At this point, Bourque and Christensen don't have much value so it's Girardi+Sauer for Yandle+Turris... Phoenix laughs a lot and hangs up.
Specified Kolarik was a salary dump.
If they get a better offer, we could consider how much adding to match.
But consider Turris another disappointment not up to par, only subject of trade at all because of POSSIBLE upside.

So it really is Girardi + Sauer + the unknown Bourque + the limited stopgap EC
for
Yandle + the unknown gamble Turris.

Agreed, 'yotes not rushing to do this deal, but suspect the value is closer than you think.


Last edited by bernmeister: 10-26-2011 at 04:31 PM. Reason: sp. correction
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10-27-2011, 11:21 AM
  #66
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http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/71...-coyotes-trade

Kyle Turris asks for a trade. Do we want?

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10-27-2011, 11:46 AM
  #67
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I'd rather have him in the lineup as our annual restoration project than Wolski, but I don't think it'd be worth the price and it'd be a marginal upgrade if an upgrade at all. Ceiling is much higher with Turris than Wolski.

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10-27-2011, 12:26 PM
  #68
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He went 3rd overall almost 5 years ago! Daigle, Falloon, Chyzowski, Brule, etc. This kid is a bust, and a greedy one at that. He and his agent know the window to benefit from the "I was 3rd overall" ruse is closing by the minute. Some idiot GM will give away key assets as well as give this kid the money and regret it. Stay away. I say again, STAY AWAY!

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10-27-2011, 12:34 PM
  #69
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He went 3rd overall almost 5 years ago! Daigle, Falloon, Chyzowski, Brule, etc. This kid is a bust, and a greedy one at that. He and his agent know the window to benefit from the "I was 3rd overall" ruse is closing by the minute. Some idiot GM will give away key assets as well as give this kid the money and regret it. Stay away. I say again, STAY AWAY!
There are plenty of kids from that draft who only within the last season or so began to make an impact. Couture, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Shattenkirk.. all players who only started making an impact last season. Turris is 22 years old.. he's hardly some washed up bust that has squandered any opportunity to make it in the NHL.

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10-27-2011, 12:45 PM
  #70
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Read Maloney's email to LeBrun:

Quote:
If he wants to play in the NHL this season, he will resign with us. We will not trade his rights unde any circumstances and are prepared to live with the consequences if he decides to sit out this and future seasons
Strong words, at this stage of the game, I'm inclined to believe him.

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10-27-2011, 12:58 PM
  #71
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Read Maloney's email to LeBrun:



Strong words, at this stage of the game, I'm inclined to believe him.
So, he WILL resign him? That means he'll be an UFA, right?

Tee-hee.

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10-27-2011, 02:57 PM
  #72
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Looking at what Filatov drew in, and what Don Maloney and Sather's history together has shown us. I would trade

Kundratek
'12 3rd round pick

for

Turris

Filatov who was the 6th overall pick in '08 had his misgivings with Columbus, going back to Russia, whining about his playing time, not being happy with the AHL stints. He got a 3 round pick in return with Scott Howson (a Sather protege) cutting his losses.

Turris is in a very similar situation to Filatov, except he doesn't have the Russian factor about him. Both he and Filatov were mismanaged but there's no point in arguing semantics there.

Don Maloney (like Howson another Sather protege), likes his Czech defenseman, trading for both Rosival and Klesla just last season. Much like the trade for Wolski, and Zherdev (traded by Howson for Tyutin) we are in a situation where a small market team with a disgruntled skilled player is availble and their GMs have a history with ours. Sather has shown a penchant for making these deals, trading a top 4 capable defenseman for a skilled player hoping to breakout here, only to have disappointing results. Could third time be the charm?

Turris isn't European and unlike Wolski, he has never played (or earned) top six minutes. I would have no problems with Turris being the 4th line shootout specialist, and the skilled utility player that Torts likes to use over Wolski and Christensen.

Some AHL time wouldn't hurt where Turris can work on his conditioning and learn the system, he doesn't have to clear waivers yet.

We are also seeing this team take a very North American and Swedish turn in our system. Trading away Grachev and Horak this past off season, so seeing Kundrateck go wouldn't come as a surprise. He is a solid pro defensman and the Rangers have shown that they can develop NHL players under Sather's regime, with the likes of Grachev, Weise, Potter, and Horak as NHL rookies this year on other teams. Not to mention the bunch that is on the NYR roster.

The 2008 draft was a good one for us with Del Zotto, Stephan on the big squad, and Wiese and Grachev playing NHL minutes. I think Kundratek can play in the NHL as well with his size, mobility, toughness and defensive acumen. He's not a world beater by any cmeans, but Gernander and co have graduated many defensmen through their ranks in recent years and I think the Kundratek is no different.

The 3rd round pick is there since Kundratek isn't an NHL player. Filatov only got a third in return.

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10-27-2011, 03:02 PM
  #73
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There are plenty of kids from that draft who only within the last season or so began to make an impact. Couture, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Shattenkirk.. all players who only started making an impact last season. Turris is 22 years old.. he's hardly some washed up bust that has squandered any opportunity to make it in the NHL.
None of those guys were top-3 picks.

Do we want Turris to just "make it in the NHL" as you stated, or do we want him to be a dominant, franchise player like other skill forwards taken 3rd overall, like Savard and Toews and Sedin and Duchesne and Gaborik?

Read your history. Outside of Olli Jokinen -- who took three teams and almost 7 years to develop into a star--top picks like Turris who don't impact within two or three years of getting drafted usually become role players.

Turris is a bust because of where he was drafted and the pisspoor stats since then.
You can wait for him to develop. I've moved along, thank you

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10-27-2011, 03:06 PM
  #74
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I think Turris is a bust. The guy has not really shown anything special or being worthy of his high draft position. I also would not want to move the required pieces to acquire him nor pay him the money he is looking for.

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10-27-2011, 03:06 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by DrSutton View Post
Read Maloney's email to LeBrun:



Strong words, at this stage of the game, I'm inclined to believe him.
He's bluffing. he wants to get him signed for cheap, and at least up his value even if only slightly.

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