HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

A DG like Burke in Montreal, Is it possible?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-20-2011, 12:18 PM
  #76
BeerHell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
As if you would have known if his picture would not have been taken....They had to comment on it based on the picture a guy had taken. As if they are the ones coming forward with those infos instead of the journalists going with their "analysis" of the situation. As in during the draft when now Timmins can give his analysis of the players we got 'cause now everything has to go through Gauthier. As in, the 2 press conferences Gauthier gives each year and always sounds like "We haven't made our final analysis of the team, we'll let you know when we do" compared to most if not all the teams who addresses their weaknesses are have a real press conference with real stuff in it. As in, tons of other examples but if you can't see them, there's nothing I can do more...

I guess I'll be hearing about the fact that it's impossible to see Gauthier say in a market like Montreal that he's looking for a d-man 'cause if he doesn't pull the plug on a guy, he'll be criticized.....as if it stopped people to criticize him anyway....

Just listen to other coaches and GM's throughout the league. And this crap about Montreal not being the same is totally overrated. Whether you say or don't say something, every sports shows will talk about the Habs anyway. But instead of speculating, we might be tempted to talk about the reality a little more. Have we talked to certain players as far as UFA's are concerned? What about Jagr? How the heck is it THAT difficult to say that you were or were not interested? Etc., etc. and freakin etc....
What does it change if Markov is in Florida or in Montreal? and what is the problem with not being proactive about that? What makes you think they wouldn't have told the journalist last thursday morning, like they did with White would not be there because he just got operated. The picture came first because everybody in Montreal knows Markov. In let'S say Columbus, the team would have told the journalist in the morning skate because nobody would have known about Carter for example... So yeah MTL and the a vast majority of the rest of the league is different.

Is it really important that to you, PG throw a press conference tonight saying, you know what guys, We are looking for a top D-MAN? who does except Burke?

I guess that it's another endless discussion because some people might not care for these thing , while other, like you, do care, and in both case I think it's ok to feel like that...

BeerHell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 12:19 PM
  #77
Andy
Moderator
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Gave the bruins a what? Please, this kind of non sense doesn't belong here. Knight never played, Seguin was a healthy scratch on most nights and DH was drafted this year, he had as much to do with the bruins winning the cup as PG, none.

It's fine if you don't like burke, I'm not overly fond of him myself, but there are enough things to be critical about without making **** up. This makes you look like acomplete homer unable to properly judge others work.
trading the two firsts and a 2nd had a profound effect on how the bruins were able to move assets for players afterwards. it wasn't directly responsible, but for instances, having 2 first round picks meant you could me more liberal with one them.

In fact one of those picks was used to trade horton, the other for Kaberle. I wonder if the bruins would have traded their firsts had they had not had the leafs.

I don't think he was responsible at all, that's not what I'm saying. but it helped out in some areas. Horton was an important piece in the lineup. Acquiring Kaberle allowed minutes to be distributed more evenly. Guys like boychuk didn't have to face the same level of competition. Kaberle gets trashed way too much by Bruins fans and i agree offensively he was quite awful, but he played well defensively for the majority of the series.

Andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 12:42 PM
  #78
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
I love how in the Subban thread and in any thread related to Markov... a bunch of posters are quite frankly talking out of their ***** saying stuff about the players they couldn't possibly know unless they were pretty much directly related to them or worked for the Habs.

Really it's just funny. So how do you know the situation with Markov is A-Okay CP? I'm not saying it isn't by the way, but how do you know? Cause of some picture some folks speculated on that you're now regurgitating here? Or was it Tony Marinaro on the radio who said something this time? Heck I'd take that over the speculation based on nothing.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 12:49 PM
  #79
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,814
vCash: 500
for all of his faults, there is a lot to like about Burke imo...

as far as that "type" of GM in montreal, some of his traits (which are exact opposites to our recent GM's) I would appreciate:

- clearly outlined direction & team identity goals
- more open and direct communication (vs the same b.s media comments every year)
- straight forward approach with players (including club policy's that respect players as people)
- open/aggressive negotiations with players under contract (no "end of season" negotiation policies, no leaving players twist in the wind until July 1st)
- ability to stand up to media regularly (Gainey did earn a lot of respect on the few occasions which he did, though he clearly preferred to "pick his spots", i personally appreciate the more consistent approach)
- surrounding the front office management with experienced hockey people who have had degrees of success in other organization & who have strong ties to other organizations (i.e mining the league for front office talent vs insulating oneself with only like-minded people... i believe strong organizations, in any field, are ones where leadership actively seeks out qualified people with diverging view points, so long as they share a common determination towards succeeding)


As much as Burke comes accross as a loud mouth, his track record shows that he's smart enough to hire people willing to stand up to him and challenge his views, as opposed to yes men. He seems to have a very strong reputation from those who have worked/played with him, and despite his seemingly antagonistic approach, over the past decade the habs front office has had FAR more players/staff leave on bad terms than his nucks/ducks/leafs have.

regardless of the demeanor of our front office, i'd hope that this would be a priority... treating all players/staff in a way that, even when tough decisions need to be made, people leave feeling as though they were treated fairly, respectfully.

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 12:51 PM
  #80
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Gave the bruins a what? Please, this kind of non sense doesn't belong here. Knight never played, Seguin was a healthy scratch on most nights and DH was drafted this year, he had as much to do with the bruins winning the cup as PG, none.

It's fine if you don't like burke, I'm not overly fond of him myself, but there are enough things to be critical about without making **** up. This makes you look like acomplete homer unable to properly judge others work.
Wow. What's wrong get up on the wrong side of bed or something?

I stand by what I said. Just read Andy's post.

Jigger77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:14 PM
  #81
BeerHell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
for all of his faults, there is a lot to like about Burke imo...

as far as that "type" of GM in montreal, some of his traits (which are exact opposites to our recent GM's) I would appreciate:

- clearly outlined direction & team identity goals
It is the same here you might not agree, but we want to be a fast, no goon kibnd of team
- more open and direct communication (vs the same b.s media comments every year)
Could be a little bit more openened but should stop way before burk's limit
- straight forward approach with players (including club policy's that respect players as people)Are you a player? what make you think PG doesbn't have a straight forward approach?
- open/aggressive negotiations with players under contract (no "end of season" negotiation policies, no leaving players twist in the wind until July 1st)
That could be nice also. But the point on no distraction and no jealousy because player A got a contract and not player B, at least it straight forward and equal with everybody
- ability to stand up to media regularly (Gainey did earn a lot of respect on the few occasions which he did, though he clearly preferred to "pick his spots", i personally appreciate the more consistent approach)
We already have a huge daily dose of Coach and players no need for frequent GM presence especially if all he has to say is, nothing new...
- surrounding the front office management with experienced hockey people who have had degrees of success in other organization & who have strong ties to other organizations we have a front office filled with experience people, and who in burke's entourage is so prestigious and so covered in past success? we have also trade twice with the same team

But this is all my opinion

BeerHell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:15 PM
  #82
ruski17
Registered User
 
ruski17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 855
vCash: 500
So far, the only trade that made me want to have Burke as a GM here is the Lombardi trade. If Gauthier went for those cap dumps, he could build a solid team. The problem is that the habs are in a win now mode where every penny needs to be spent on players that can help the team now. Burke was rebuilding so he could get contracts like Kolzig, Lombardi (which turned out in his favor), etc. If we do it, the only thing you are gonna hear on this board is: PG sucks, he got a cap dump for us.

Burke is smart in that way because he gives up crap to get worse crap and a shiny pearl. That's how he built his team. Look at Gardiner, Franson, etc.

He also gets players with character like Brown, Rosehill, etc. Habs are desperatly missing that. We need to stop getting smaller or getting inconsistent players.

ruski17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:17 PM
  #83
One Trick Pony
Registered User
 
One Trick Pony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,603
vCash: 500
I find it funny how this thread shows up now just for fun out of nowh... oh wait the leafs are 4-0-1 nevermind.

One Trick Pony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:26 PM
  #84
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32,752
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
As if you would have known if his picture would not have been taken....They had to comment on it based on the picture a guy had taken. As if they are the ones coming forward with those infos instead of the journalists going with their "analysis" of the situation. As in during the draft when now Timmins can give his analysis of the players we got 'cause now everything has to go through Gauthier. As in, the 2 press conferences Gauthier gives each year and always sounds like "We haven't made our final analysis of the team, we'll let you know when we do" compared to most if not all the teams who addresses their weaknesses are have a real press conference with real stuff in it. As in, tons of other examples but if you can't see them, there's nothing I can do more...

I guess I'll be hearing about the fact that it's impossible to see Gauthier say in a market like Montreal that he's looking for a d-man 'cause if he doesn't pull the plug on a guy, he'll be criticized.....as if it stopped people to criticize him anyway....

Just listen to other coaches and GM's throughout the league. And this crap about Montreal not being the same is totally overrated. Whether you say or don't say something, every sports shows will talk about the Habs anyway. But instead of speculating, we might be tempted to talk about the reality a little more. Have we talked to certain players as far as UFA's are concerned? What about Jagr? How the heck is it THAT difficult to say that you were or were not interested? Etc., etc. and freakin etc....
You have to adapt to your surroundings. Burke is making himself look even worse with his "I would do the Kessel trade over again" even though even people who don't follow the game know they got ***** on that deal. I prefer a GM that doesn't advertise his business to the press on a daily basis because it just creates a sideshow, especially with all the clowns employed here on nightly shows who second guess everything.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:27 PM
  #85
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,132
vCash: 500
Burke has a mixed track record. The Kessel trade was not in the Leafs' favor but the Kaberle and Phaneuf trades were. The Leafs finally have a decent goaltender as well as a few decent youn players. Komisarek remains a white elephant. I'd ask myself: Would Habs fans be happy if he traded two first rounders (Including a #2) plus a second rounder for Kessel?

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:27 PM
  #86
conrad420
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Montreal is definitely too conservative for a GM like that...missing the playoffs 6 straight years and not have a powerhouse to show for it wouldn't fly here

In all seriousness he's been a terrible GM in Toronto, the only FA's he's gotten are guys that are massively overpaid(Komisarek Connolly). The Kessel trade is a screw up of monumental proportions. The Phaneuf trade is a salary dump(though Phaneuf is playing better) who is way overpaid. He overvalues his team every year and makes bad moves as a result. All this while spending a pile of money on players and front office people.

To be honest tho, he really has been the exact opposite of terrible. every move he has made has been for the better..how is the kessel trade going to hurt them? they not only got the better player but could easily end up winning that trade in the future.

you keep saying all the trades hes made have been bad when everyone with any clue knows that most of them have been flat out steels..

stajan, hagman, white for phaneuf
2nd rounder for grabo
kaberle for a 1st and colborne
Beauchemin for gradiner, lupul and 4th (lol i read in one of your posts u said Beauchemin has big a value and was there best D man. Well just so you know he had negative value)

Lebda for Cody Franson and lombardi
2nd rounder for liles

you dont seem to understand hockey very well i also was reading you saying that Stajan and hagman were quality players and the leafs shouldnt have traded them, you probly think players like gomez are great players too right?

conrad420 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:28 PM
  #87
uiCk
GrEmelins
 
uiCk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,368
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
Why do you think he was picking so high?
LOL awsome reply.

The guy is a tool;
i can't even belive people, after 5 games, montreal tanking discussion is under way, and discussion of having Burke type GM here.

Mind. Is. Shattered.

uiCk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:28 PM
  #88
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32,752
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruski17 View Post
So far, the only trade that made me want to have Burke as a GM here is the Lombardi trade. If Gauthier went for those cap dumps, he could build a solid team. The problem is that the habs are in a win now mode where every penny needs to be spent on players that can help the team now. Burke was rebuilding so he could get contracts like Kolzig, Lombardi (which turned out in his favor), etc. If we do it, the only thing you are gonna hear on this board is: PG sucks, he got a cap dump for us.

Burke is smart in that way because he gives up crap to get worse crap and a shiny pearl. That's how he built his team. Look at Gardiner, Franson, etc.

He also gets players with character like Brown, Rosehill, etc. Habs are desperatly missing that. We need to stop getting smaller or getting inconsistent players.
The Habs don;t have guys with character? You mean the same Habs taht almost put Boston out(7 games and 3 OT's) without 4-5 regulars?

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:31 PM
  #89
Andy
Moderator
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by conrad420 View Post
To be honest tho, he really has been the exact opposite of terrible. every move he has made has been for the better..how is the kessel trade going to hurt them? they not only got the better player but could easily end up winning that trade in the future.

you keep saying all the trades hes made have been bad when everyone with any clue knows that most of them have been flat out steels..

stajan, hagman, white for phaneuf
2nd rounder for grabo
kaberle for a 1st and colborne
Beauchemin for gradiner, lupul and 4th (lol i read in one of your posts u said Beauchemin has big a value and was there best D man. Well just so you know he had negative value)

Lebda for Cody Franson and lombardi
2nd rounder for liles

you dont seem to understand hockey very well i also was reading you saying that Stajan and hagman were quality players and the leafs shouldnt have traded them, you probly think players like gomez are great players too right?
Burke didn't acquire Grabovski

Andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:32 PM
  #90
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,847
vCash: 500
Everything's possible. Besides, if Rejean Houle can be GM of the Montreal Canadiens, anybody can.

But do we want a Burke-like GM? Probably not, except the media and fans more interested in **** happening off the ice than performance on the ice.

Poulet Kostopoulos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:34 PM
  #91
gusfring
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
for all of his faults, there is a lot to like about Burke imo...

as far as that "type" of GM in montreal, some of his traits (which are exact opposites to our recent GM's) I would appreciate:

- clearly outlined direction & team identity goals
- more open and direct communication (vs the same b.s media comments every year)
- straight forward approach with players (including club policy's that respect players as people)
- open/aggressive negotiations with players under contract (no "end of season" negotiation policies, no leaving players twist in the wind until July 1st)
- ability to stand up to media regularly (Gainey did earn a lot of respect on the few occasions which he did, though he clearly preferred to "pick his spots", i personally appreciate the more consistent approach)
- surrounding the front office management with experienced hockey people who have had degrees of success in other organization & who have strong ties to other organizations (i.e mining the league for front office talent vs insulating oneself with only like-minded people... i believe strong organizations, in any field, are ones where leadership actively seeks out qualified people with diverging view points, so long as they share a common determination towards succeeding)


As much as Burke comes accross as a loud mouth, his track record shows that he's smart enough to hire people willing to stand up to him and challenge his views, as opposed to yes men. He seems to have a very strong reputation from those who have worked/played with him, and despite his seemingly antagonistic approach, over the past decade the habs front office has had FAR more players/staff leave on bad terms than his nucks/ducks/leafs have.

regardless of the demeanor of our front office, i'd hope that this would be a priority... treating all players/staff in a way that, even when tough decisions need to be made, people leave feeling as though they were treated fairly, respectfully.
Agree with this post 100%. We need more of this here.

gusfring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:35 PM
  #92
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32,752
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by conrad420 View Post
To be honest tho, he really has been the exact opposite of terrible. every move he has made has been for the better..how is the kessel trade going to hurt them? they not only got the better player but could easily end up winning that trade in the future.

you keep saying all the trades hes made have been bad when everyone with any clue knows that most of them have been flat out steels..

stajan, hagman, white for phaneuf
2nd rounder for grabo
kaberle for a 1st and colborne
Beauchemin for gradiner, lupul and 4th (lol i read in one of your posts u said Beauchemin has big a value and was there best D man. Well just so you know he had negative value)

Lebda for Cody Franson and lombardi
2nd rounder for liles

you dont seem to understand hockey very well i also was reading you saying that Stajan and hagman were quality players and the leafs shouldnt have traded them, you probly think players like gomez are great players too right?
I never said the Leafs shouldn't have traded Stajan and Hagman, but they were hardly "garbage" as you suggested. When that deal was made they had good value as both were having good seasons. Phaneuf is a good player but he is paid like a great one, much like Gomez he'll struggle to live up to his contract.

The Grabovsky trade, if Toronto is happy, good for them but it was great value at the time. He'll have to put together more than one good season to prove to me that he is a lefit top 2 guy on a playoff team.

The Lombardi trade was a salary dump for a guy with a very poor health history and a big contract. Franson is a decent young player but he isn't even dressed most games so big deal.

The Kaberle deal he did well, but Kaberle was one of the big names on the market.

Not sure where you get that Beauchemin had negative value...quite comical.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:39 PM
  #93
conrad420
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I never said the Leafs shouldn't have traded Stajan and Hagman, but they were hardly "garbage" as you suggested. When that deal was made they had good value as both were having good seasons. Phaneuf is a good player but he is paid like a great one, much like Gomez he'll struggle to live up to his contract.

The Grabovsky trade, if Toronto is happy, good for them but it was great value at the time. He'll have to put together more than one good season to prove to me that he is a lefit top 2 guy on a playoff team.

The Lombardi trade was a salary dump for a guy with a very poor health history and a big contract. Franson is a decent young player but he isn't even dressed most games so big deal.

The Kaberle deal he did well, but Kaberle was one of the big names on the market.

Not sure where you get that Beauchemin had negative value...quite comical.
see tho thats one of the good things about burke, he wont make a trade just so he can get a very small upgrade, he makes those trades to get good young prospects. Franson should be playing a good part of this season but casue of all the other young D man like Gardiner and aullie he picked up there isnt much room but id would assume he will make a trade.

conrad420 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:41 PM
  #94
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerHell View Post
But this is all my opinion
Patrick Boivin, son of Pierre Boivin with no NHL experience except for the jobs with the team that his dad gave him, is our director of hockey operations...

that kind of nepotism shouldn't be tolerated by an organization driven by winning, and committed ot hiring the best of the best in each role.

otherwise, our hockey management consists of this:

Pierre Gauthier (GM, previous experience with other organizations)
Larry Carriere (asst-GM, previous NHL experience)
Trevor Timmins (Director of player procurement-?- & player development, experience in one other organization, which also happens to be the organization that the current GM was a part of... nothing wrong with that in of itself, but as far as getting strong people with experience from various NHL organizations, it's not a bonus)

that's it... 3 people with NHL experience outside of Montreal in our front office management team.

the laffs have:
Burke
Nonis
Dave Poulin
Claude Loiselle
RIck Dudley
Cliff Fletcher
Jim Hughes
Reid Mitchell
Dave Grifiths

only Mitchell and Griffiths don't have previous experience with other pro hockey organizations, but Griffiths worked for the NHL for over a decade, and Mitchell worked his way up internally with the laffs.

that's 9 people (8 with other NHL experience) performing the duties that just 6 (only 3 with NHL experience) handle in montreal

go further, you see that the Laffs have 4 Pro scouts, Habs have 1...

Laffs employ 23 scouts in total, Habs 11...

now i'm all for efficiency, and "more" doesn't automatically mean "better", but especially as far as front office staff is concerned, I'd rather see the Habs employ a "brain thrust" of people with strong NHL background (and we can argue about the "quality" of Fletcher/Poulin/Dudley/Nonis/Loiselle), but bottom line is that those 5 guys have a wealth of experience and a wealth of networks that can be accessed when making roster/trade decisions.

Gauthier/Timmins/Carriere don't have nearly the combined experience, track record or network that the laffs group does.
and it's not just the leafs... a quick look at the Red wings and you see their front office group is 6-deep in terms of NHL experienced "brains", and even there where the owners son has a role in the organization, it's not a hockey related role... no room for nepotism when it comes to building a winner.

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:43 PM
  #95
CGG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 416
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by conrad420 View Post

you keep saying all the trades hes made have been bad when everyone with any clue knows that most of them have been flat out steels..

stajan, hagman, white for phaneuf
Good trade, but Phaneauf is still a shadow of his former self and grossly overpaid
Quote:
Originally Posted by conrad420 View Post
2nd rounder for grabo
Cliff Fletcher did this, not Burke
Quote:
Originally Posted by conrad420 View Post
kaberle for a 1st and colborne
Good deal on a rental
Quote:
Originally Posted by conrad420 View Post
Beauchemin for gradiner, lupul and 4th (lol i read in one of your posts u said Beauchemin has big a value and was there best D man. Well just so you know he had negative value)
Doesn't look like negative value if Anaheim was willing to give up a recent 1st round pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by conrad420 View Post
Lebda for Cody Franson and lombardi
He picked up a salary dump for nothing, good for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by conrad420 View Post
2nd rounder for liles
We know this is a good move 5 games into the season?

It occurs to me that a lot of these "home runs" are because the Leafs are terrible, missing the playoffs, and dumping anyone decent for futures. That leaves them well below the floor so they can pick up overpaid cast offs like Lombardi and Lupul. And Phaneuf for that matter. Good for them. But if they were actually good enough to make the playoffs, a lot of these wouldn't happen.

I think he's about 50-50, there's still some clunkers he's pulled off. Let's be honest, Hab fans would go nuts if PG traded a # 2 overall pick and another 1st and a 2nd for Kessel. Hab fans seem to be going nuts about a 5th round pick for Mara.

Let's re-examine this thread when the Leafs aren't on a 4-0-1 roll and all of these brilliant moves won't look so brilliant any more.

CGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:49 PM
  #96
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32,752
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Patrick Boivin, son of Pierre Boivin with no NHL experience except for the jobs with the team that his dad gave him, is our director of hockey operations...

that kind of nepotism shouldn't be tolerated by an organization driven by winning, and committed ot hiring the best of the best in each role.

otherwise, our hockey management consists of this:

Pierre Gauthier (GM, previous experience with other organizations)
Larry Carriere (asst-GM, previous NHL experience)
Trevor Timmins (Director of player procurement-?- & player development, experience in one other organization, which also happens to be the organization that the current GM was a part of... nothing wrong with that in of itself, but as far as getting strong people with experience from various NHL organizations, it's not a bonus)

that's it... 3 people with NHL experience outside of Montreal in our front office management team.

the laffs have:
Burke
Nonis
Dave Poulin
Claude Loiselle
RIck Dudley
Cliff Fletcher
Jim Hughes
Reid Mitchell
Dave Grifiths

only Mitchell and Griffiths don't have previous experience with other pro hockey organizations, but Griffiths worked for the NHL for over a decade, and Mitchell worked his way up internally with the laffs.

that's 9 people (8 with other NHL experience) performing the duties that just 6 (only 3 with NHL experience) handle in montreal

go further, you see that the Laffs have 4 Pro scouts, Habs have 1...

Laffs employ 23 scouts in total, Habs 11...

now i'm all for efficiency, and "more" doesn't automatically mean "better", but especially as far as front office staff is concerned, I'd rather see the Habs employ a "brain thrust" of people with strong NHL background (and we can argue about the "quality" of Fletcher/Poulin/Dudley/Nonis/Loiselle), but bottom line is that those 5 guys have a wealth of experience and a wealth of networks that can be accessed when making roster/trade decisions.

Gauthier/Timmins/Carriere don't have nearly the combined experience, track record or network that the laffs group does.
and it's not just the leafs... a quick look at the Red wings and you see their front office group is 6-deep in terms of NHL experienced "brains", and even there where the owners son has a role in the organization, it's not a hockey related role... no room for nepotism when it comes to building a winner.
You forgot Gainey who is around as a consultant.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 01:50 PM
  #97
CGG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 416
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The Habs don;t have guys with character? You mean the same Habs taht almost put Boston out(7 games and 3 OT's) without 4-5 regulars?
But the Leafs showed character and Truculence! while missing the playoffs for the 6the straight season with goofs like Orr and Rosehill on the 4th line. Apparently that's more important than actual results.

CGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 02:39 PM
  #98
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,893
vCash: 500
No the gm must be French

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 02:40 PM
  #99
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,893
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Stajan had 31 pts last year, far from being a great player

And Gomez makes..... Don't start talking about salaries now cause we have our own share of players that are way overpaid

I never compared both players, I compared the situations they were in at the time of both being signed by their respective teams.

Because what we traded to get Gomez is such a steal compared to that.

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 02:57 PM
  #100
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 51,307
vCash: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You have to adapt to your surroundings. Burke is making himself look even worse with his "I would do the Kessel trade over again" even though even people who don't follow the game know they got ***** on that deal. I prefer a GM that doesn't advertise his business to the press on a daily basis because it just creates a sideshow, especially with all the clowns employed here on nightly shows who second guess everything.
Which is the reason why I said that I don't need the extreme as far as Burke is concerned.....but somebody in the middle would be nice instead of a FBI agent. Besides....I still believe Burke made a terrible trade....but if Kessel continue like that, it might not be as one-sided as some have thought it to be. Still a win by Boston, yet at least something to show for as far as Burke is concerned. Maybe the same type of trade we look bad at doing in the Leclair-Desjardins for Reechi, yet we still had Reechi to show for 5 seasons and some 75-80 points a year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You forgot Gainey who is around as a consultant.
The same Gainey who, when he retired, admitted that he wasn't up to par with this new NHL anymore.....Not sure I like his "consultations".....

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:20 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.