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With Adam's emergence be happy with the center situation. Its what we've wanted.

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Old
10-21-2011, 09:48 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by AlexanderMogilny89 View Post
Why not Vanek for this years MVP? or Miller ? Or Adam Calder ?
Seriously? Why not? If Vanek's line stays consistent like this, Vanek will have a shot at his first Rocket Richard, Pomminville will land his first Selke, and Adam will win the Calder. Miller for Vezina isn't hard to imagine either.

I would be very happy for all of them, but right now all that matter his working out the bugs for 82 games and building team confidence that will carry them to a Stanley Cup Championship.

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10-21-2011, 10:24 AM
  #52
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Luke Adam has played center for every second of his time in the Sabres system. How much more 'natural' a center do you want?

This whole thing is so damn overblown. You either know how to play center in a given system, or you don't. The biggest responsibility a center has is defensive coverages. If you have them right, the rest of the game flows from there.

I wish folks would stop pining for the mythical unicorn center that will cure cancer and score 200 goals a week, and realize the crop of centers that are here now are pretty darn good.
False. He played about a 3rd of his time in the NHL on the wing.

And true centers don't have their wingers (aka Pommers) who aren't know for their faceoff abilities taking draws for them. Puck possession and winning faceoffs are a huge part of being a center.

I'm not saying this team doesn't have insane depth, but they DON'T have great depth down the middle. One or two key injuries and Hecht is at the top of your depth chart again.

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10-21-2011, 10:26 AM
  #53
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By my count, they have one top 9 center. Leino is not a center. Gaustad is a liability unless on the bottom line. Hecht? Nothing more needs to be said. Adam has been a nice surprise so far, but he hasn't proven anything- still very much a work in progress.
Adam is playing like a top 9 center, so unless his play falls off to the point where he is not playing like a top 9 center, I don't think it's fair not to include him. Gaustad has proven in the past and proven this year that he is very much capable of playing 3rd line minutes. I don't think he's a great 3rd line center but he is very adequate in that role.

Early season returns on Leino at center have not been good but how do you discount Adam's start because he's only done it for 6 but then when Leino is switching back to center after 4-5 years away from it 6 games is all of the sudden enough to base that off?

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10-21-2011, 10:26 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Mergus merganser View Post
F
I'm not saying this team doesn't have insane depth, but they DON'T have great depth down the middle. One or two key injuries and Hecht is at the top of your depth chart again.
One or two key injuries at center would affect any team negatively. Buffalo is not unique there.

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10-21-2011, 10:27 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Mergus merganser View Post
Four of the seven players you listed are wingers who have been forced to play center due to lack of TRUE center depth. I wouldn't call that depth. How many of them have excelled when put in that situation? You say that you can have depth without having talented depth and that just isn't true. Boston had depth last year because all of their depth players were also very good! Anybody can throw bodies out there.
Boston relied on 2 good two way centers (Bergeron/Krejci) and very deep team. You're honestly going to argue that Campbell, Peverly and Kelly are all "very good"? Campbell and Kelly are 3rd line centers on Goose's level. Peverly is a 2/3 center and is not better than Hecht at the position.

The centers on Boston's roster as a group are not much better, if they are at all, than ours.


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Hell, even Adam is still questionable as to what position he projects to play. There was an interview with Darcy this summer (or maybe Ruff?) where they asked him if Adam will be a winger or a center. They were pretty noncommittal.
Thats simply not true. Since watching him in the AHL playoffs, Ruff has consistantly said he views Adam as a big bodied #1/2 center that can bring a two way game.


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As to your comment about Roy, I only listed wingers who were forced to be centers. Roy doesn't fit that mold, hence why I left him out
Forced to be center? and how can you leave out our 70pt center in a discussion of centers?

Hecht has played center before and is good at it. Leino you have backwards. Up until this season he was a center being forced to play wing. He prefers to play center. McCormick was solid last year as our 4th line center and is actually pretty good at it. I will agree though that last year Boyes was forced into the role.


When Chicago won the Cup they had a winger "forced to play center" as their 2nd line center....Sharp. He has played about as much center as Hecht has in the previous 3 seasons.




Basically you want to take as negative/pessimistic of a stance on this as possible. So be it.

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10-21-2011, 10:30 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I wish folks would stop pining for the mythical unicorn center that will cure cancer and score 200 goals a week, and realize the crop of centers that are here now are pretty darn good.
Here's our new center that will solve all our problems.



Someone make up a crazy trade rumor so we can get him!

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10-21-2011, 10:30 AM
  #57
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[QUOTE=Play4Miracles;38251633]Seriously? Why not? If Vanek's line stays consistent like this, Vanek will have a shot at his first Rocket Richard, Pomminville will land his first Selke, and Adam will win the Calder. Miller for Vezina isn't hard to imagine either.

I would be very happy for all of them, but right now all that matter his working out the bugs for 82 games and building team confidence that will carry them to a Stanley Cup Championship. [/QU

Vanek is playing the best hockey I have ever seen him play before. Miller looks like he is playing in top form. Also Luke Adam plays like he has been on that line for 3 yrs now. It makes me wonder why he wasn't playin last yr?Anyways this is pobably all pre mature. So i will probably get reemed for saying all this to early. I believe if Vanek stays healthy and Luke stays consistent and Miller stays healthy and in top form. This will be a yr to remember for a long time. Rocket Richard, Calder, And Vezina. Has that ever happend on one team before?

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10-21-2011, 10:31 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Here's our new center that will solve all our problems.



Someone make up a crazy trade rumor so we can get him!
Dallas isn't trading Morrow.

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10-21-2011, 10:32 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Boston relied on 2 good two way centers (Bergeron/Krejci) and very deep team. You're honestly going to argue that Campbell, Peverly and Kelly are all "very good"? Campbell and Kelly are 3rd line centers on Goose's level. Peverly is a 2/3 center and is not better than Hecht at the position.

The centers on Boston's roster as a group are not much better, if they are at all, than ours.




Thats simply not true. Since watching him in the AHL playoffs, Ruff has consistantly said he views Adam as a big bodied #1/2 center that can bring a two way game.




Forced to be center? and how can you leave out our 70pt center in a discussion of centers?

Hecht has played center before and is good at it. Leino you have backwards. Up until this season he was a center being forced to play wing. He prefers to play center. McCormick was solid last year as our 4th line center and is actually pretty good at it. I will agree though that last year Boyes was forced into the role.


When Chicago won the Cup they had a winger "forced to play center" as their 2nd line center....Sharp. He has played about as much center as Hecht has in the previous 3 seasons.




Basically you want to take as negative/pessimistic of a stance on this as possible. So be it.
Didn't Peverly play center in Atlanta? I like Peverly, when Horton went down in the playoffs, and he came in I knew he was gonna go big.

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10-21-2011, 10:37 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Mergus merganser View Post
False. He played about a 3rd of his time in the NHL on the wing.

And true centers don't have their wingers (aka Pommers) who aren't know for their faceoff abilities taking draws for them. Puck possession and winning faceoffs are a huge part of being a center.

I'm not saying this team doesn't have insane depth, but they DON'T have great depth down the middle. One or two key injuries and Hecht is at the top of your depth chart again.
Thats the case for most teams. You're setting up a false a paradigm that a team needs enough depth to be able to absorb the loss of 1 or 2 of their top two centers. That they can replace those guys with similarly able centers. Or that a team can realistically overcome those losses and still win in the playoffs.


I'll use Boston from last season to make my point. Since they are a team you feel has great depth. If Bergeron and/or Krejci go down. None of Peverly, Campbell or Kelly can replace what they bring.


The bottom line is if you lose your best two centers you're going no where in the playoffs. Why posters have this false belief that you can somehow have enough depth to overcome this is beyond me.

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10-21-2011, 10:50 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Thats the case for most teams. You're setting up a false a paradigm that a team needs enough depth to be able to absorb the loss of 1 or 2 of their top two centers. That they can replace those guys with similarly able centers. Or that a team can realistically overcome those losses and still win in the playoffs.


I'll use Boston from last season to make my point. Since they are a team you feel has great depth. If Bergeron and/or Krejci go down. None of Peverly, Campbell or Kelly can replace what they bring.


The bottom line is if you lose your best two centers you're going no where in the playoffs. Why posters have this false belief that you can somehow have enough depth to overcome this is beyond me.
If Adam's growth as a center continues, and Leino can really learn to be an NHL center... then the Sabres actually have more center depth then most IF a top 6 center went down.

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10-21-2011, 10:55 AM
  #62
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Adam has worked on his footspeed -- he's getting around faster than he was and that's key for him since that was his biggest weakness. It's not a strength, he'll never be Pat LaFontaine, but he's able to be where he needs to be more so now than at any time last year. He's earned where he is via hard work. He's a big lad, the faceoffs will come with work.

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10-21-2011, 11:06 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Boston relied on 2 good two way centers (Bergeron/Krejci) and very deep team. You're honestly going to argue that Campbell, Peverly and Kelly are all "very good"? Campbell and Kelly are 3rd line centers on Goose's level. Peverly is a 2/3 center and is not better than Hecht at the position.

The centers on Boston's roster as a group are not much better, if they are at all, than ours.




Thats simply not true. Since watching him in the AHL playoffs, Ruff has consistantly said he views Adam as a big bodied #1/2 center that can bring a two way game.




Forced to be center? and how can you leave out our 70pt center in a discussion of centers?

Hecht has played center before and is good at it. Leino you have backwards. Up until this season he was a center being forced to play wing. He prefers to play center. McCormick was solid last year as our 4th line center and is actually pretty good at it. I will agree though that last year Boyes was forced into the role.


When Chicago won the Cup they had a winger "forced to play center" as their 2nd line center....Sharp. He has played about as much center as Hecht has in the previous 3 seasons.




Basically you want to take as negative/pessimistic of a stance on this as possible. So be it.
I had the wrong person, it was Dineen who said it depends on who you talk to in the organization as to what position he projects to play in the NHL. So his coach last year still wasn't convinced he will be a center in the NHL. I'd say that is far from a certainty that he will remain a center. Especially if he doesn't learn how to win a draw.

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10-21-2011, 11:09 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Mergus merganser View Post
I had the wrong person, it was Dineen who said it depends on who you talk to in the organization as to what position he projects to play in the NHL. So his coach last year still wasn't convinced he will be a center in the NHL. I'd say that is far from a certainty that he will remain a center. Especially if he doesn't learn how to win a draw.
Maybe you should listen to Dineen's pregame interview with Paul Hamilton from yesterday where he talked about how Adam was tearing up the AHL last year at center, and he was convinced he had NHL level talent.

Or just run with what you think he thought.

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10-21-2011, 11:11 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Mergus merganser View Post
I had the wrong person, it was Dineen who said it depends on who you talk to in the organization as to what position he projects to play in the NHL. So his coach last year still wasn't convinced he will be a center in the NHL. I'd say that is far from a certainty that he will remain a center. Especially if he doesn't learn how to win a draw.
Faceoffs take extra work. Adam had other fish to fry there first -- like getting around faster. He's done that. He'll improve at the dot as he matures.

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Maybe you should listen to Dineen's pregame interview with Paul Hamilton from yesterday where he talked about how Adam was tearing up the AHL last year at center, and he was convinced he had NHL level talent.

Or just run with what you think he thought.
Yeah, Devine is the one who's said before Adam may be better suited to the wing.

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10-21-2011, 11:14 AM
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Until this year, that made sense. Up until Traverse City plenty of folks questioned his skating ability and foot speed. If you are a poor skater the middle isn't where you want to be playing because of the primary backcheck responsibility.

The kid has found a gear that many didn't think he had.

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10-21-2011, 11:17 AM
  #67
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Pretty awesome to see Adam stepping into that role and producing as quickly as he has. If his performance keeps up, yeah; center depth becomes much less of an issue.

Feels great to say that - nice thread.

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10-21-2011, 11:43 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Here's our new center that will solve all our problems.



Someone make up a crazy trade rumor so we can get him!
Well... the obvious trade to snag aforementioned Unicorn.

To Dallas: Virgin
To Buffalo: Unicorn

Unicorns are European folklore though... I think the unicorn will be soft and not conform to Lindy's style. (I don't really believe in the European hockey player stereotype, but I had to slide that in there)

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10-21-2011, 11:44 AM
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Faceoffs take extra work. Adam had other fish to fry there first -- like getting around faster. He's done that. He'll improve at the dot as he matures.



Yeah, Devine is the one who's said before Adam may be better suited to the wing.
Sorry, I was wrong again. I wasn't wrong in what was said, just who said it. Here is the link: http://www.wgr550.com/pages/10165323.php

Beechsack-
"organizationally we are trying to make our minds up where he will fit positionally, he played A LOT OF LEFT WING THIS YEAR".

Again, to say it is a lock that he will be a center is a stretch. There is still very much a question mark there. He is averaging less than 14:00 per game, his status on the 1st line could change in a heart beat. As soon as that 1st line stops clicking, I expect him to drop down the depth chart pretty quick.

We may not have as large of a hole as we once had down the middle, but I'm sorry, it is not a strong spot yet.

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10-21-2011, 11:47 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Until this year, that made sense. Up until Traverse City plenty of folks questioned his skating ability and foot speed. If you are a poor skater the middle isn't where you want to be playing because of the primary backcheck responsibility.

The kid has found a gear that many didn't think he had.
We are 6 games into the season! Talk about jumping the gun.

He is still one of the slowest skaters on the team.

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10-21-2011, 11:58 AM
  #71
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We may not have as large of a hole as we once had down the middle, but I'm sorry, it is not a strong spot yet.
No, you're right, and to expect it to be smooth sailing for him from here on out is a bit naive. If anything, however, Adam chose a fantastic time to turn on the jets with Hecht out.

Even if Adam does drop down, him merely staying with the team and having a spot on the ice every game would be a good accomplishment for him with a team as deep as we have right now. He's shown he can play with the big boys... that should give us hope for the future at the very least.

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10-21-2011, 12:09 PM
  #72
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No, you're right, and to expect it to be smooth sailing for him from here on out is a bit naive. If anything, however, Adam chose a fantastic time to turn on the jets with Hecht out.

Even if Adam does drop down, him merely staying with the team and having a spot on the ice every game would be a good accomplishment for him with a team as deep as we have right now. He's shown he can play with the big boys... that should give us hope for the future at the very least.
Agreed.

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10-21-2011, 12:40 PM
  #73
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Early season returns on Leino at center have not been good but how do you discount Adam's start because he's only done it for 6 but then when Leino is switching back to center after 4-5 years away from it 6 games is all of the sudden enough to base that off?
Because there exists a presumption that if you haven't shown over a reasonable period of time that you're an NHL caliber center, that you are probably not. I also would not be optimistic about Robyn Regehr being a solid NHL center, despite that I have absolutely zero sample size to justify that opinion. The player has the burden of proof.

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10-21-2011, 04:01 PM
  #74
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I think if the Sabres win the Stanley cup, people will still complain about the center depth and how it is not good enough to win a Stanley Cup.

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10-21-2011, 06:45 PM
  #75
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The best thing about Adam playing well early is its taken alot of pressure of Leino to be a factor immediately.

This gives him times to click with someone and get his offense going (which he will eventually)

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