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Booth, Reinprecht, 3rd rounder to Vancouver for Samuelsson & Sturm

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Old
11-02-2011, 04:16 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
Booth is working with Kesler, recently back off surgery and missing a couple weeks, alongside Hodgson, new to the NHL. After watching them play so far, I don't believe that's any concern for Vancouver fans. He will do well.

Ballards been playing great this year so far. Turning the corner on earning his pay-cheque and is certainly a serviceable player at the moment.
Ballard is overpaid. So glad we got rid of him.
Sucked here, sucked last year, and now he's playing "great" with 1 point and a -9 to start the year.

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11-02-2011, 04:18 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
I hope you don't think you're getting that in Samuelsson.

Speed: Booth=A-, Samuelsson= C
Effort: Booth=A+, Samuelsson= Ranges from D to C+
Shot: Booth=B, Samuelsson=C-
Passing: Booth=D+, Samuelsson=C+
Defense: Booth=C-, Samuelsson=B
PP: Booth=B, Samuelsson=B
SO: Booth=C+, Samuelsson=D


This is a more accurate assessment of Samuelsson.

What you're getting is a couple bucks to spend in a year. That's where your positive value comes into play.
I agree with this.

As a matter of fact, I'm not sure why no one knows too much about Samuelsson, really. He's already played here once. He's not great. Long-term, I'd rather have Booth. However, Samuelsson is serviceable and in a year we might be able to use the money in a more efficient way.

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11-02-2011, 04:23 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
I hope you don't think you're getting that in Samuelsson.

Speed: Booth=A-, Samuelsson= C
Effort: Booth=A+, Samuelsson= Ranges from D to C+
Shot: Booth=B, Samuelsson=C-
Passing: Booth=D+, Samuelsson=C+
Defense: Booth=C-, Samuelsson=B
PP: Booth=B, Samuelsson=B
SO: Booth=C+, Samuelsson=D


This is a more accurate assessment of Samuelsson.

What you're getting is a couple bucks to spend in a year. That's where your positive value comes into play.
And thats what makes being a fan what it is. One person's C is another's A.

I am the biggest Booth fan on this board. Feel free to change his Defense, shootout, and PP to a D.

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11-02-2011, 05:21 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
As a matter of fact, I'm not sure why no one knows too much about Samuelsson, really. He's already played here once. He's not great. Long-term, I'd rather have Booth.
Samuelsson was a completely different player when he was last in Florida. And with Samuelsson turning 35, there's no long term.


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I am the biggest Booth fan on this board. Feel free to change his Defense, shootout, and PP to a D.
Which is fine. I think Booth can improve his defense and become adequate. If he plays with Kesler he should be fine. As mentioned, in shootouts, Booth is 2 for 10 and Samuelsson is 1 for 9 in their careers. Really not worth mentionoing. As for PP, as long as the Sedins and Kesler are around, Booth is going to get minimal PP time with the Canucks.

The reality for the Canucks is that it's not about how good Booth is individually. It's how he meshes with Kesler. If he doesn't complement Kesler, his acquisition is going to be an epic fail for the Canucks. Booth can score 30 goals but if he doesn't complement Kesler's game, he's better off scoring 20 goals and helping Kesler play his best.

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11-02-2011, 07:50 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I agree with this.

As a matter of fact, I'm not sure why no one knows too much about Samuelsson, really. He's already played here once. He's not great. Long-term, I'd rather have Booth. However, Samuelsson is serviceable and in a year we might be able to use the money in a more efficient way.
His previous play here isnt necessarily going to be the same play now. Since he left, he became a more productive player overall. Like you said, he's serviceable which is basically what Tallon wanted to get. But you say you'd rather have Booth long term but really, let me ask you this...next season would you rather have Booth on this roster or Huberdeau? This deal wasnt just about the money but also the roster flexibility that we lacked. I knew Booth would've gotten moved before next offseason so it was just a matter of time IMO.
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Originally Posted by F A N View Post
Samuelsson was a completely different player when he was last in Florida. And with Samuelsson turning 35, there's no long term.

Which is fine. I think Booth can improve his defense and become adequate. If he plays with Kesler he should be fine. As mentioned, in shootouts, Booth is 2 for 10 and Samuelsson is 1 for 9 in their careers. Really not worth mentionoing. As for PP, as long as the Sedins and Kesler are around, Booth is going to get minimal PP time with the Canucks.

The reality for the Canucks is that it's not about how good Booth is individually. It's how he meshes with Kesler. If he doesn't complement Kesler, his acquisition is going to be an epic fail for the Canucks. Booth can score 30 goals but if he doesn't complement Kesler's game, he's better off scoring 20 goals and helping Kesler play his best.
Yes there is no long term with Samuelsson which is actually what we want. We needed a guy to be useful for this yr and keep us competitive but needed more roster flexibility long term.

I dont know that his defense is going to improve so significantly that he'll be adequate. I'm sure he'll be willing to work at it though and thats never going to change. But if he focuses on it too much, I'd fear that he becomes an above avg 3rd liner at best.

I dont think Booth ever scores 30 goals again. He mentioned before the trade that he missed playing with Weiss (who he was lined up with when he did score 30). Without that playmaking forward to distribute the puck to him, I'm not sure he'll be the scorer that you're expecting. And I think he may not even compliment Kesler as much as Canucks fans are hoping. Booth and Kesler seem like they both want the puck and thats gonna be interesting to see how they really work together.

Only about 30% of Booth's scoring came on the PP so him not receiving a lot of icetime there won't really matter. But if he's not getting close to 16+ mins of even strength time, I'm not sure how he's gonna score 20 goals, let alone ever get a chance at 30 again. But I have faith that he can score close to 20 goals...my prediction for him is he averages around 18 goals and 17 assists per season for the rest of his career.

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11-02-2011, 08:04 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
His previous play here isnt necessarily going to be the same play now. Since he left, he became a more productive player overall. Like you said, he's serviceable which is basically what Tallon wanted to get. But you say you'd rather have Booth long term but really, let me ask you this...next season would you rather have Booth on this roster or Huberdeau? This deal wasnt just about the money but also the roster flexibility that we lacked. I knew Booth would've gotten moved before next offseason so it was just a matter of time IMO.Yes there is no long term with Samuelsson which is actually what we want. We needed a guy to be useful for this yr and keep us competitive but needed more roster flexibility long term.
My point of Booth being better long-term was simply comparing players (Booth, Samuelsson).

From our perspective, I completely understand why the trade was made and I approved of it. Like you said, Huberdeau will take Booth's spot next year and we will be better off for it.

As for Samuelsson, he is indeed serviceable as we've both alluded to. He's definitely not the same player he once was here, but he's also not going to produce like he did some years in Detroit/Vancouver with the caliber of players he got to play in those places. He is what he is.

I think it would be cool to put Samuelsson on a line with Weiss/Versteeg to maybe get the most out of him. Move Flash down to line two. It could give us more scoring depth.

As of right now, we're really only a scoring threat when our first line is on the ice. It's great that they're having this start, but sooner or later we're going to need more balanced scoring. This team was built to roll four lines and get production from all four lines.

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11-02-2011, 08:23 PM
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
My point of Booth being better long-term was simply comparing players (Booth, Samuelsson).

From our perspective, I completely understand why the trade was made and I approved of it. Like you said, Huberdeau will take Booth's spot next year and we will be better off for it.

As for Samuelsson, he is indeed serviceable as we've both alluded to. He's definitely not the same player he once was here, but he's also not going to produce like he did some years in Detroit/Vancouver with the caliber of players he got to play in those places. He is what he is.

I think it would be cool to put Samuelsson on a line with Weiss/Versteeg to maybe get the most out of him. Move Flash down to line two. It could give us more scoring depth.

As of right now, we're really only a scoring threat when our first line is on the ice. It's great that they're having this start, but sooner or later we're going to need more balanced scoring. This team was built to roll four lines and get production from all four lines.
Its really hard to compare because it wasnt just Samuelsson for Booth. We got Sturm in the deal also and he really hasnt been as bad as Canucks fans claimed. Is he the same guy that was scoring 20g every yr for like 7 straight...of course not. But he's pretty good defensively and going to be an asset on the PK which I think we need improvement in right now.

I wouldnt mind that idea of Samuelsson with Weiss and Steeger but obviously not right now. Flash is too hot to be moved off that line and Versteeg is clearly producing as well. Eventually Flash will cool off a bit and hopefully thats when Samuelsson is back and playing at 100% to try that line juggling.

I disagree that we're only a scoring threat with our 1st line out there. The other lines just havent been able to finish so far really but they've gotten chances. Plus we were without Santorelli for the first 8 games so it will be different once he's back up to speed. Then factor in other guys have been out of position (Kopecky) or missing (Bergenheim) and I think we'll eventually start to see the scoring from more than our top line.

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11-04-2011, 05:59 PM
  #408
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Holy crap are you biased. Have you even watched Booth and Samuelsson play? Not saying your comparison is bad overall but how can Booth get a C+ for shootouts when he's 2 for 10 in his career and Samuelsson gets a B for being 1 for 9?

Bottom line is that Tallon wanted to get rid of Booth's contract. Trying to justify the trade by comparing Booth to Samuelsson and concluding that Samuelsson is comparable, equal, or better is just stupid because Booth is turning 27 and Samuelsson is turning 35 and is in the last year of his deal. All else being equal, nobody makes this trade except at the deadline where it makes sense for a team looking to make a playoff push to acquire Samuelsson who can provide veteran leadership and Stanley Cup experience. But things aren't equal and hence we have this trade but don't try to justify this trade solely by suggesting Samuelsson is comparable to Booth.

You make Samuelsson sound like a complete player. His main weakness being injuries? Please. He has two big weaknesses. He's slowing down and he's inconsistent both in production and in effort level. Look... I'm a Canucks fan who speaks highly of Samuelsson. He was a great fit in Vancouver. I remember Babcock saying that if Samuelsson had the confidence in himself he would be a high end player in the NHL. That's how good Samuelsson can be. I'm not sure if confidence is the issue but the deal with Samuelsson is that he can be (at least in the past) be a high end scorer. He was criticized in Detroit for his shot selection. His penchant for shooting worked out great in his first year as a Canuck because he spent time playing with the Sedins who didn't shoot enough. While Samuelsson is a skilled passer, don't expect Samuelsson to make plays with his passing. If you're expecting Samuelsson to be a better passer than Booth you'll be disappointed. Samuelsson doesn't really pass. And when Samuelsson isn't scoring you'll be clammering for him to be benched and lowering that effort and defensive grade you gave him.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't think Samuelsson can be a bottom 6 player anymore. There is nothing wrong with his defensive skills. He's a smart checker. He just doesn't seem interested in playing defense all that much anymore. These days he's more interested in floating around waiting for opportunities to shoot. When he's scoring you'll love him. When he's not you'll hate him. Let me know if this prediction turns out to be true.



Man... who says that? 7th last in scoring? Booth loved playing in Florida and playing for the Panthers and didn't want to leave. Why try to justify the trade by diminishing Booth as a player? Booth had a good game last night. Didn't score but got and assist and drew two penalties by driving to the net.
Great post!!!

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11-05-2011, 06:46 AM
  #409
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Agree with Slickcat and others who describe the Booth trade as a contract dump. The return for Booth is two vets with expiring contracts, one of whom is injured and the other is recovering from knee surgery. If they both return to form,then they might garner a decent return at the TDL.

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11-05-2011, 12:04 PM
  #410
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Even though he isn't playing for us anymore, you don't want to see Booth take punches to the head. He does not need to be fighting.

Anyone have any word on Sammy yet? Is he still a week or two from returning?

-ghoste

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11-06-2011, 11:17 AM
  #411
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We now have a scrappy, physical team that is hard to play against. A soft team that deflates and is an easy night for good teams? No, not anymore. We are now a team that is a tough out for anyone because we play tough and hard. Skille is one of the players that make this team what it is. That's the bottom line for me. Is he less talented than Frolik? Yes, that's obvious. That's not the issue for me though. Tallon and Santos explained their feelings on this trade last season. Skille was just one of the first steps in the remake of this team. It seems like Frolik isn't going to become the player we thought he would anyway. Tobias Enstrom is now on IR because of the hit Skille gave him. I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing, although the hit was clean, but it shows you the physical element he brings to the table. It also goaded Byfuglien into a 5 min. penalty. With the way he hustles, he's going to get his points soon. I liked the trade then and I still like as much now. BTW, that Pacan character isn't that bad either. He's 6'3" and he has 19 pts. in the OHL right now. With everyone now seeing how Markstrom has performed in the NHL, we would have had little use for Salak anyways.

Skille also makes 4M less than Booth and hits a lot more. Not really the same type of player.

Whoops, meant to put this in the Tallon's trade history thread. lol

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11-06-2011, 11:35 AM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
We now have a scrappy, physical team that is hard to play against. A soft team that deflates and is an easy night for good teams? No, not anymore. We are now a team that is a tough out for anyone because we play tough and hard. Skille is one of the players that make this team what it is. That's the bottom line for me. Is he less talented than Frolik? Yes, that's obvious. That's not the issue for me though. Tallon and Santos explained their feelings on this trade last season. Skille was just one of the first steps in the remake of this team. It seems like Frolik isn't going to become the player we thought he would anyway. Tobias Enstrom is now on IR because of the hit Skille gave him. I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing, although the hit was clean, but it shows you the physical element he brings to the table. It also goaded Byfuglien into a 5 min. penalty. With the way he hustles, he's going to get his points soon. I liked the trade then and I still like as much now. BTW, that Pacan character isn't that bad either. He's 6'3" and he has 19 pts. in the OHL right now. With everyone now seeing how Markstrom has performed in the NHL, we would have had little use for Salak anyways.

Skille also makes 4M less than Booth and hits a lot more. Not really the same type of player.

Whoops, meant to put this in the Tallon's trade history thread. lol
Well, it's a great post and puts perfectly how I feel about Skille and the trade. I said at the time that Skille was part of what Tallon wanted this team to be and Frolik just wasn't.

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11-06-2011, 12:11 PM
  #413
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The Skille trade was fine. We traded inconsistent one dimensional offensive player for a third line energy guy who brings a much needed element to the lineup. It was never offense for offense. Tallon filled Frolik's spot with a UFA signing.

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11-06-2011, 12:31 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
We now have a scrappy, physical team that is hard to play against. A soft team that deflates and is an easy night for good teams? No, not anymore. We are now a team that is a tough out for anyone because we play tough and hard. Skille is one of the players that make this team what it is. That's the bottom line for me. Is he less talented than Frolik? Yes, that's obvious. That's not the issue for me though. Tallon and Santos explained their feelings on this trade last season. Skille was just one of the first steps in the remake of this team. It seems like Frolik isn't going to become the player we thought he would anyway. Tobias Enstrom is now on IR because of the hit Skille gave him. I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing, although the hit was clean, but it shows you the physical element he brings to the table. It also goaded Byfuglien into a 5 min. penalty. With the way he hustles, he's going to get his points soon. I liked the trade then and I still like as much now. BTW, that Pacan character isn't that bad either. He's 6'3" and he has 19 pts. in the OHL right now. With everyone now seeing how Markstrom has performed in the NHL, we would have had little use for Salak anyways.

Skille also makes 4M less than Booth and hits a lot more. Not really the same type of player.

Whoops, meant to put this in the Tallon's trade history thread. lol
I hope thats right, I wish thats right, but as I said in the enforcer thread I worry since our physical plays are being rewarded by the player having the crap beat out of him in a follow up fight will soften this team as the season progresses... I truly hope that's not the case.

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11-06-2011, 12:47 PM
  #415
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I hope thats right, I wish thats right, but as I said in the enforcer thread I worry since our physical plays are being rewarded by the player having the crap beat out of him in a follow up fight will soften this team as the season progresses... I truly hope that's not the case.
I don't think we have a scrappy/physical team.

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11-06-2011, 12:54 PM
  #416
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I hope thats right, I wish thats right, but as I said in the enforcer thread I worry since our physical plays are being rewarded by the player having the crap beat out of him in a follow up fight will soften this team as the season progresses... I truly hope that's not the case.
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I don't think we have a scrappy/physical team.
It's a lot more so than the past couple years. I don't think our players are going to back down though. They are going to continue to finish their checks. From top to bottom, we are much more physical than in past years. Even smaller guys like Upshall and Versteeg are hitting and getting involved more in the corners than our small guys in the past.

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11-06-2011, 01:05 PM
  #417
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I don't think we have a scrappy/physical team.
We're no Boston, but we're far more physical that we've been. Upshall hasn't done fought since that first game, but when was the last time that happened? They finish checks and don't give up during games.

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11-06-2011, 01:42 PM
  #418
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Difference of opinion aside, it's hard for me to agree with some here that Booth is a better player than Sammy, straight up. Add to that equation their contractual differences and I can't see why some here are calling this a bad trade. It's as good a trade as Frolik, and probably better in the end. It's not as good as Olesz, but few are, lol.

And Booth is still 0+2=2, with a -3. He's on the bottom of the team of regular skaters. Only Ballard gas displayed the same degree of futility.

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11-06-2011, 08:18 PM
  #419
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Difference of opinion aside, it's hard for me to agree with some here that Booth is a better player than Sammy, straight up. Add to that equation their contractual differences and I can't see why some here are calling this a bad trade. It's as good a trade as Frolik, and probably better in the end. It's not as good as Olesz, but few are, lol.

And Booth is still 0+2=2, with a -3. He's on the bottom of the team of regular skaters. Only Ballard gas displayed the same degree of futility.
update...Booth scores...


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11-06-2011, 08:55 PM
  #420
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We were more physical at the end of last year than we are this year.

This team isn't physical at all. Looking at the box score, they've basically put up 20 or less hits per game in almost all the games lately.

This team is flashy and rather soft. They do stick up for each other when something bad happens, though. But in terms of finishing checks and playing hard in the defensive zone, they don't really do that.

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11-06-2011, 08:58 PM
  #421
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Plenty of room for them to turn up the energy. Seems it's still looking for it's identity.

Honestly, kinda wish we'd traded for Prospal and Dorsett than what we did. No idea if was at all possible, just like it more.

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11-10-2011, 02:13 PM
  #422
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Day by day I'm getting a bad feeling Samuelson is another of those injured players we acquire who never plays a game in our jersey or more than a few.

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11-10-2011, 02:17 PM
  #423
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Day by day I'm getting a bad feeling Samuelson is another of those injured players we acquire who never plays a game in our jersey or more than a few.
Another?

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11-10-2011, 02:18 PM
  #424
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Another?
Kilger, Bertuzzi, Bitz right off my head. I know there are more just don't remember em

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11-10-2011, 02:22 PM
  #425
adam graves
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Kilger, Bertuzzi, Bitz right off my head. I know there are more just don't remember em
that would just make a ad trade even worse. fingers crossed not so.

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