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What's the main reason of this mediocre performance ?

View Poll Results: What's the main reason of this mediocre performance ?
The coach 76 36.71%
The offence 9 4.35%
The defense 39 18.84%
Lack of motivation and effort 14 6.76%
Ill prepared (horrible preseason) 11 5.31%
Special team (PP and SH) 32 15.46%
Other 26 12.56%
Voters: 207. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-23-2011, 10:10 PM
  #76
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
IMHO the main reason for the performance that we've seen so far this year is gambling - Habs brass / talent evaluators decided to take too many chances.
in no particular order
- Enqvist equal to Halpern
- emergence of Diaz/Emelin making Hamrlik redundant (thus opting out of the required 2 yr deal)
- Markov's health (or lack thereof)
- Subban's ability to keep growing
- Gorges' ability to step right back into the lineup

The management of this team took too much for granted, taking a gamble on one or two of these points headed into the system is one thing, but all of the above? Recipe for disaster
In management's defense though, I think a lot of us (myself included) figured that too much had to go wrong for us to play as badly as we have. Everything has gone wrong for us. The only player who we can point to as being a positive is Pacman. We should be a better team than this. I'm pretty surprised at how bad we've been.

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Old
10-23-2011, 10:24 PM
  #77
Kimota
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We lost Markov, Hammer, Wiz.

Gill is older, Gorges just came back from an injury year, and we have three inexperienced euros in Weber, Diaz and Emelin.

What do you think is the problem.

Second biggest thing is Cole. If we don't fix that problem it will be the turning point of the season. The start of a biggest fall. It's the white elephant in the room. The guy plays crappy, he seems lost, Martin keep punishing him. And he makes 4 mill a year. If it doesn't get better the athmosphere in room, around the team, everywhere will get heavy.

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Old
10-23-2011, 10:24 PM
  #78
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I voted for "other." It's a combination of injuries, continuation of the Gomez tailspin, reliance on inexperienced players, and the lack of a decent 4th line center. Price hasn't been especially sharp. The Cole signing hasn't worked out so far but there's still time. In the weeks to come Diaz and Emelin will make themselves better known and the injured players will gradually return. I don't think the Habs will be as bad in April as they are in October.

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Originally Posted by franchise player View Post
This organisation's total lack of vision is what kills them today. They've been fine with being a middle of the pack team for so long that they haven't done anything substantial to be anything more than that for the past 20 years.

The habs once had one of the deepest prospect pool in the entire NHL, just a few years ago. What came out of all of this? Pretty much nothing. All the management did is trade their picks for temporary fixes.

They put on an outdated coach beind the bench. They commited to long terme contracts to overpaid players.

The end result? The prospect pool is now amongst the worst in the league, the product on the ice is shameful and there's not any signs of things getting any brighter soon. The UFA market for the next off season is incredibly poor. How are we going to bolster our defense? What are we gonna do with our overpaid players?

The truth is, Gainey and Gauthier pretty much put this team in deep ****.
Don't you want to to add Timmins to your ****list because of the Habs' shallow prospect pool?


Last edited by Mike8: 10-24-2011 at 12:23 AM.
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Old
10-23-2011, 10:44 PM
  #79
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rational in irrational times!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Questionable coaching decisions which lead to not taking advanatge of opportunities. Example, Darche on the 5 on 3. Had no business there, should have been Pacioretty from the start.

We have 4 defensemen in the lineup who have played under 100 nhl games. You won't win many games like that. This one is no one's fault, no one would have predicted that Campoli and Spacek would have gone down in game 1 and 2 respectively.
...I believe ya, and see growth in the TEAM - Eller is becoming the stud some of us believed he could be!!

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Old
10-23-2011, 10:48 PM
  #80
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Jacques Martin 100%

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Old
10-23-2011, 11:00 PM
  #81
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by AraGOHABSGO View Post
Jm And Pg!!!!
Strike 1
Strike 2
Strike 3
You Are Oooouuuuuttttt!!!!!
Winner. PG for not addressing our glaring needs. JM for not being the coach the Habs need right now.

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Besides Hamrlik, how can you properly judge this???

You were there on the phones, hearing of every player PG went after? Who says he didn't try? Maybe the players he targeted didn't want to come here, for many reasons that have nothing to do with the makeup of the team or otherwise?

You say Dmen go down across the league, yet you'd be hard-pressed to find a team that had half it's top 6 on the injury list for EVERY game since the beginning of the season.

Come on, show me at least one team other than the Habs that had half its top 6 injured for all the games. I'll be waiting................ a long time.
GM's get paid for results, not the effort that they put into trying to do their job.

When you get an F on a course in college, do you tell the professor that you worked really hard and should get credit for that hard work? Same if you work. You are doing a lousy job but you tell your boss that you are really trying hard.

Its all about results. The rest is simply making excuses for poor performance.


Last edited by Mike8: 10-24-2011 at 12:22 AM.
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Old
10-23-2011, 11:16 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
GM's get paid for results, not the effort that they put into trying to do their job.

When you get an F on a course in college, do you tell the professor that you worked really hard and should get credit for that hard work? Same if you work. You are doing a lousy job but you tell your boss that you are really trying hard.

Its all about results. The rest is simply making excuses for poor performance.
Of course results doesn't apply to our Price, PK and other top players.
Excuses for poor performance and blaming others is appropriate for them.

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10-24-2011, 12:20 AM
  #83
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Of course results doesn't apply to our Price, PK and other top players.
Excuses for poor performance and blaming others is appropriate for them.
Pardon me, but I don't recall any player on the team throwing another under the bus.
It is quite common however, for posters to create their own fictions for the wonderment of the rest of us.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:31 AM
  #84
Mike8
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Nobody is suggesting we could've just found another Markov dude. But there's no excuse for not getting some more depth. Not if they were looking to ensure the playoffs.
I don't understand. How much more depth do you think an NHL team needs? The club has Markov, Subban, Gorges, Spacek, Gill, Campoli as a top-6, then Weber, Emelin and Diaz. That's 9 defensemen who can play in the NHL. I don't think it's reasonable to add much more depth.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:37 AM
  #85
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The montreal canadiens do not have a capable shutdown unit not named plekanec, gorges and gill. No strong faceoff presence on bottom 2 lines. Only moen as a somewhat physical winger in bottom 6. This team desperately needs a madden(in his prime) type shutdown center. Something we've had with the moores, halperns, smolinskis and bonks but we lack now. Perhaps PN is the answer for the faceoff problem. However, a physical winger like white is missing. When he returns, along with blunden(perhaps 13th fwd), I think our 4th line will provide more energy and be much more solid.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:43 AM
  #86
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I don't understand. How much more depth do you think an NHL team needs? The club has Markov, Subban, Gorges, Spacek, Gill, Campoli as a top-6, then Weber, Emelin and Diaz. That's 9 defensemen who can play in the NHL. I don't think it's reasonable to add much more depth.
That's a very weak top six esp when you factor in that Markov is a huge question mark. I was okay with them letting Hammer go but I figured we'd sign Wiz. If you let them both go, you wind up in the situation we're in now.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:47 AM
  #87
Mike8
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
That's a very weak top six esp when you factor in that Markov is a huge question mark. I was okay with them letting Hammer go but I figured we'd sign Wiz. If you let them both go, you wind up in the situation we're in now.
I don't see how that's a very weak top-six. Markov's a top tier defenseman. Subban's a legit top pairing guy. Gorges is strong in a second pairing role. Spacek's an alright #4/5, and Gill's a solid #5. Campoli's strong as a #6. Seems just about fine to me. Then there's 3 additional defensemen. Seems like a good amount of depth to me. Hard to argue that depth is the issue when there are 9 NHL defensemen on the payroll.

In fact, I can't begin to understand how that can be considered 'very weak.' By any objective measure, it's strong. By knowing the personnel, it's strong. By knowing the competition, it's very strong. So I'm going to assume this is one of those fantasy conversations and bow out now.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:47 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
Carey Price, P.K. Subban and Josh Gorges.

Seriously, Price hasn't been good at all, just look at his stats. He does some marvelous saves, but he's not making saves that a good NHL goalie should do.

Meanwhile, P.K. and Gorges are supposed to be our top-2 D, but they are definately not playing any better than Diaz or Weber. You can blame the young guys and the inexperience, but so far our worst defensemen have been the veterans.
Well, Subban is a 2nd year offensive dman... not exactly a "veteran", especially not the kind of "veteran" you hope will stabilise your defense corps. Also, Gorges is what, 26? And he missed most of last year because of his knee, and is now "learning" to skate with an ACL, which he didn't have for the last 7 years. He shouldn't be a 20 minutes/night 2nd dman right now.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:53 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I don't see how that's a very weak top-six. Markov's a top tier defenseman. Subban's a legit top pairing guy. Gorges is strong in a second pairing role. Spacek's an alright #4/5, and Gill's a solid #5. Campoli's strong as a #6. Seems just about fine to me. Then there's 3 additional defensemen. Seems like a good amount of depth to me. Hard to argue that depth is the issue when there are 9 NHL defensemen on the payroll.
Markov was a question mark from the very beginning and management should know this. Take him out and you've got one guy in his sophomore season who can lead the offense. Gorges is good but even he's coming off an injury plagued season himself.

I'm sorry man, but I'm going to disagree with you on this. Just because we have guys who are "NHL capable" it doesn't make it a good group nor does it constitute a deep one. Both Hammer and Wiz were good 2nd pairing guys and we lost both of them. It would've been good to keep one or get a replacement there. We have a talent gap there and having Spacek, Gill etc... doesn't cut it.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 10-24-2011 at 01:04 AM.
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Old
10-24-2011, 05:20 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Markov was a question mark from the very beginning and management should know this. Take him out and you've got one guy in his sophomore season who can lead the offense. Gorges is good but even he's coming off an injury plagued season himself.

I'm sorry man, but I'm going to disagree with you on this. Just because we have guys who are "NHL capable" it doesn't make it a good group nor does it constitute a deep one. Both Hammer and Wiz were good 2nd pairing guys and we lost both of them. It would've been good to keep one or get a replacement there. We have a talent gap there and having Spacek, Gill etc... doesn't cut it.
Defensive depth isn't the problem, we have plenty, the problem is we have 2 top pairing guys, one hurt and 7 5th or 6th dman. We need a top end dman, not a bunch of bottom dman.

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10-24-2011, 12:05 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Defensive depth isn't the problem, we have plenty, the problem is we have 2 top pairing guys, one hurt and 7 5th or 6th dman. We need a top end dman, not a bunch of bottom dman.
Depends on what you mean by 'depth'. And I'd say it most certainly is a problem.

If by depth you mean having 'NHL capable' then we're fine I guess but that's not what I was talking about. What I said was that Markov is an injury risk (and management should've known this.) Right now the Jets have 7 or 8 guys on their roster who can play center. But I wouldn't say they're deep in center would you? Just because you have guys who can fill out an NHL roster that doesn't mean you have depth. It just means we have players that we could actually dress for an NHL game. Our top six right now is not good.

You aren't going to be able to replace Markov but we should've added more depth in the way of at least some 2nd pairing guys. We would've been okay with Wiz but he's gone. And if you let both Wiz and Hamr go and you don't have Markov, you're going to have problems. We didn't plan for this. Guys like Gill and Spacek don't make up for this problem either.

As for this season I figured Markov would go down at some point and then we'd have to look for some patchwork fix but surprise, surprise he's not even in the lineup now and it looks like we'll need that fix sooner rather than later. We had no backup plan.

And uh, Subban playing a little bit better would help too. We probably gave him too much responsibility this year though and not having guys to share the load is hurting us.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 10-24-2011 at 12:11 PM.
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Old
10-24-2011, 01:33 PM
  #92
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My vote goes to "it's hockey, stuff happens, and sometimes you win one game in a stretch of seven". Of course, when the seven games happen at the start of the season, it's more striking.

Seriously, I'd be worried if the Habs had played poorly but that's just not the case; they've actually done pretty well and have been hammered by the bounces. Imagine they'd scored one on Buffalo (a game they outrageously dominated), a bit more oomph in the shootout versus Colorado (another game they dominated), one more save last game versus Toronto (a game they outplayed, if not dominated) and you'd be looking at 4-3-0 and we wouldn't be having these panicked rantings. And I'm not even pushing this thing very far.

Right now, the correct course of action is to make minor adjustments and keep playing. The Habs will not finish the season with 35 points. If they keep outplaying their opponents, the wins will come.

Actually, this is worth reading, especially since it's from a neutral POV: http://puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1141

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Old
10-24-2011, 02:26 PM
  #93
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Ok I got a plan it worked for my NHL 12 season

Keep Eller - Patches - Price and Subban and trade the rest

Hey I got Stamkos for Pleks Gorges and a 2nd

a first And RNH for cammalleri and Gomez

Taylor Hall for Gionta a 2nd in 2012 and 2013

1st and Adam Larsson for markov,Gill and 3rd

Andrei K and Cole for 1st and Paarjarvi

Draft Day :

1st :12 overall plus 2nd in 2014 for 1st overall + 3rd 2012

1st 17overall plus 2nd 2015 for 1st second overall plus 3rd 2012


Let the rebuild begin,I'll send the email to PG

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Old
10-24-2011, 02:29 PM
  #94
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Above all it is our special teams.

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Old
10-24-2011, 02:32 PM
  #95
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Special teams. When you've given up more shorthanded goals than you have scored on the PP, that's a big deal. Where the fault lies is another story. Management, coaching staff, players, all of the above...

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10-24-2011, 02:54 PM
  #96
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Definitely special teams has been our downfall.

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Old
10-24-2011, 02:59 PM
  #97
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It's easy to blame the coach, and most coaches will stand up for the team and take the heat. So I voted coach...

But this is definitely a combination of GM/Coach/Injuries. I mean how is Darche a top 6 player?

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Old
10-24-2011, 03:00 PM
  #98
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
My vote goes to "it's hockey, stuff happens, and sometimes you win one game in a stretch of seven". Of course, when the seven games happen at the start of the season, it's more striking.

Seriously, I'd be worried if the Habs had played poorly but that's just not the case; they've actually done pretty well and have been hammered by the bounces. Imagine they'd scored one on Buffalo (a game they outrageously dominated), a bit more oomph in the shootout versus Colorado (another game they dominated), one more save last game versus Toronto (a game they outplayed, if not dominated) and you'd be looking at 4-3-0 and we wouldn't be having these panicked rantings. And I'm not even pushing this thing very far.

Right now, the correct course of action is to make minor adjustments and keep playing. The Habs will not finish the season with 35 points. If they keep outplaying their opponents, the wins will come.

Actually, this is worth reading, especially since it's from a neutral POV: http://puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1141
Apart from the fact that I'd like our team to rebuild, I actually agree with most of what you're saying here. I do think we'll still turn around and get hot. We're a streaky club and I think we're too good to stay like this for the whole season. We haven't played great but there are some games we could've and should've won. And there's no way we finish with 35 points.

I can't see management not doing some kind of patchwork on the D though. We'll need another second pairing guy at least if we want to survive another Markov injury.

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Old
10-24-2011, 03:11 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
My vote goes to "it's hockey, stuff happens, and sometimes you win one game in a stretch of seven". Of course, when the seven games happen at the start of the season, it's more striking.

Seriously, I'd be worried if the Habs had played poorly but that's just not the case; they've actually done pretty well and have been hammered by the bounces. Imagine they'd scored one on Buffalo (a game they outrageously dominated), a bit more oomph in the shootout versus Colorado (another game they dominated), one more save last game versus Toronto (a game they outplayed, if not dominated) and you'd be looking at 4-3-0 and we wouldn't be having these panicked rantings. And I'm not even pushing this thing very far.

Right now, the correct course of action is to make minor adjustments and keep playing. The Habs will not finish the season with 35 points. If they keep outplaying their opponents, the wins will come.

Actually, this is worth reading, especially since it's from a neutral POV: http://puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1141
Yeah, maybe we're having our annual monster slump in October rather than December or February

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Old
10-24-2011, 03:24 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
My vote goes to "it's hockey, stuff happens, and sometimes you win one game in a stretch of seven". Of course, when the seven games happen at the start of the season, it's more striking.

Seriously, I'd be worried if the Habs had played poorly but that's just not the case; they've actually done pretty well and have been hammered by the bounces. Imagine they'd scored one on Buffalo (a game they outrageously dominated), a bit more oomph in the shootout versus Colorado (another game they dominated), one more save last game versus Toronto (a game they outplayed, if not dominated) and you'd be looking at 4-3-0 and we wouldn't be having these panicked rantings. And I'm not even pushing this thing very far.
I concur.
Habs weren't excellent, but they weren't as bad as the ranking indicates.
If we get better in PP, and a bit better in D, and get some luck, then we should be fine.

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