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10-24-2011, 09:08 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie to Brownie View Post
Off topic here but what are we going to do with Penner if we can't sign Parise?
Re-sign him if he's willing? I mean the thing is this year you can't really fault him for the effort not being there... He put in the work in the off season and has, to me at least, looked like he is always trying out there. Just not getting the breaks and bounces right now, but there are much worse options out there than more of Penner...

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10-24-2011, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
And for those calling for Lewis to move up to the third line, saying he's a two-way centre now, how do you figure? What has Lewis done to warrant being called a two-way third line forward? Dude has four career NHL goals (five if you count the playoffs) and has yet to get a point this year. He's a good role player, and has some good qualities, but lets see him show something before we say he can replace a guy of Stoll's status.
I think you can look at his games this season you'd see that he's starting to show those flashes of being a third line two-way center. He had a really nice short handed break-away that he didn't score on and while he didn't get and assist on Clifford's goal in the Phoenix game he played a huge part in it by how hard he went to the net. I thhink if you put Lewis with more skilled line mates he would be able to use his speed to create more chances and produce more points. I'd say the defensive play is where it needs to be and the offense is coming around and he just needs to be given the chance.

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10-24-2011, 10:06 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
I think you can look at his games this season you'd see that he's starting to show those flashes of being a third line two-way center. He had a really nice short handed break-away that he didn't score on and while he didn't get and assist on Clifford's goal in the Phoenix game he played a huge part in it by how hard he went to the net. I thhink if you put Lewis with more skilled line mates he would be able to use his speed to create more chances and produce more points. I'd say the defensive play is where it needs to be and the offense is coming around and he just needs to be given the chance.
Perhaps. I just come from the line of thinking that you earn those chances and I don't think Lewis has. It seems to much stock is being put into Lewis and Richardson for a solid offensive showing in the post-season.

Frankly, if Lewis is that good, even in a 4th line role, he should be able to chip in some offense, so if he does so this year I may support the call to move him up the line up more. Until then I'd rather keep Stoll, even at upwards of triple the salary, because we know he can do everything Lewis does, and we know he can score. We also know Stoll can, in a pinch, play on the second line, something we don't know Lewis can.

I think Lewis' break in the organization will have to come on wing, unless Stoll doesn't resign and Loktionov is dealt.

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10-24-2011, 10:41 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
And for those calling for Lewis to move up to the third line, saying he's a two-way centre now, how do you figure? What has Lewis done to warrant being called a two-way third line forward? Dude has four career NHL goals (five if you count the playoffs) and has yet to get a point this year. He's a good role player, and has some good qualities, but lets see him show something before we say he can replace a guy of Stoll's status.
Even if you don't believe that Lewis has done anything to warrant a move to the 3RW, I think he can be just as good if not better option than Richie, who's been pretty much invisible.

Why not try Lewis at 3RW and let Richie move to his stronger position, that being a center.

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10-24-2011, 11:02 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Even if you don't believe that Lewis has done anything to warrant a move to the 3RW, I think he can be just as good if not better option than Richie, who's been pretty much invisible.

Why not try Lewis at 3RW and let Richie move to his stronger position, that being a center.
This I agree with. I was more referring to people saying we should just jettison Stoll because Lewis can replace him.

Richardson has had some chances to hack it on sevral different lines and outside of spurts has never really done a lot. I like him, but I'd gladly play Lewis over Richardson on the 3rd line RW spot and put Richardson back as 4th line C. If Lewis can do something on the wing, then maybe you move him to that 3rd line centre position.

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10-24-2011, 11:29 AM
  #31
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Stoll is gone in the offseason. A team like Florida is going to throw lots of cash at him and it's probably his last chance at a major payday. The Kings are going to take the space created from Stoll, Penner and maybe Mitchell's departures and try to sign Parise.

If you go into next season with a top 6 of

Gagne-Kopitar-Williams
Parise-Richards-Brown

You're far less concerned if Trevor Lewis or Andrei Loktionov is your 3rd line center.

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10-24-2011, 12:16 PM
  #32
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I pray that Parise signs on Januray 1st with NJ so that people will stop with the Parise to LA ****.

He's not signing out West and did everyone forget who his agent is? I doubt he will even take Dean's phone call. If Parise makes it to July 1st, he won't need LA to drive the price up.

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10-24-2011, 12:22 PM
  #33
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^ Yeah I won't be getting sucked into that one. I can't believe anyone actually believes a top UFA is going to sign with the Kings. It didn't work with Kovalchuk or Richards so what is going to be the Parise connection to LA? I predict he'll end up in NYR, Philly or maybe Toronto or Montreal IF he doesn't re-sign with NJ first.

Ryan Smyth is a UFA next summer..

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10-24-2011, 12:23 PM
  #34
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If I'm Stoll I'm looking for a big payday, no way I'm taking a discount to play on the 3rd line in LA. I'm looking for a team that will guarantee me 2nd line duty and I'm looking for a team that has good wingers and a good offensive system to play in. Drew Doughty told me as a fan that the days of the old home town discount are over.

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10-24-2011, 12:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
^ Yeah I won't be getting sucked into that one. I can't believe anyone actually believes a top UFA is going to sign with the Kings. It didn't work with Kovalchuk or Richards so what is going to be the Parise connection to LA? I predict he'll end up in NYR, Philly or maybe Toronto or Montreal IF he doesn't re-sign with NJ first.

Ryan Smyth is a UFA next summer..
I don't really want to get sucked into it either, but it sure would be fun to stick a thumb in the collective eyes of certain NJ fans.

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10-24-2011, 12:37 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
If I'm Stoll I'm looking for a big payday, no way I'm taking a discount to play on the 3rd line in LA. I'm looking for a team that will guarantee me 2nd line duty and I'm looking for a team that has good wingers and a good offensive system to play in. Drew Doughty told me as a fan that the days of the old home town discount are over.
And yet there's this guy named Brown signed for pretty cheap on the Kings right now... Oh and not to mention Richards' and Carter's deals they signed in Philly... Both those were pretty nice home town discount deals at the time.

It comes down to if you are Stoll, do you take a cheaper deal to play for a possible contender, not to mention one that you are a part of turning into a contender... Or do you take the big pay day to go lose and start all over as a part of another rebuild?


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10-24-2011, 12:43 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
If I'm Stoll I'm looking for a big payday, no way I'm taking a discount to play on the 3rd line in LA. I'm looking for a team that will guarantee me 2nd line duty and I'm looking for a team that has good wingers and a good offensive system to play in. Drew Doughty told me as a fan that the days of the old home town discount are over.
Good thing you're not Stoll.

I'd say Williams, Brown, JJ took discounts to stay here, wouldn't be surprised if Stoll does too.

From all accounts (interviews with Mayor / Hammonds) Stoll likes it here. He probably realizes he was slightly overpaid over the life of his current contract here, which may take the sting out of taking less money to stay here. Also, if he does go somewhere where he's the clear #2 center, its likely that the team will suck. (Let's face it, he's not a #2C on a contender.) Would he rather win and make ~10% less?

I think it comes down to how much of a discount DL asks Stoll to take. My bet is that he takes a small discount to stay, but will walk if DL pushes too hard. I'll put the over/under on the breaking point at 5 -10% of contract value, ie $165k - $330k/yr on a $3.3MM contract.

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10-24-2011, 12:47 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
And yet there's this guy named Brown signed for pretty cheap on the Kings right now... Oh and not to mention Richards' and Carter's deals they signed in Philly... Both those were pretty nice home town discount deals at the time.
So you think Stoll is at the same point in his career as Brown, Johnson, Richards and Carter? If you were Stoll's agent you would advise your client to stay, play for less and play less? If you're a member of the players union do you want Stoll taking less from the Kings or the biggest possible free agent deal this summer? I'll take your answers off the air.

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10-24-2011, 12:51 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
So you think Stoll is at the same point in his career as Brown, Johnson, Richards and Carter? If you were Stoll's agent you would advise your client to stay, play for less and play less? If you're a member of the players union do you want Stoll taking less from the Kings or the biggest possible free agent deal this summer? I'll take your answers off the air.
It would be a novel concept if players started doing what they believed is right for them instead of what is right for their agents or other players in the so-called union.

My suggestion to Stoll: Hire Jack Johnson!

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10-24-2011, 12:57 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by driller1 View Post
Good thing you're not Stoll.

I'd say Williams, Brown, JJ took discounts to stay here, wouldn't be surprised if Stoll does too.

From all accounts (interviews with Mayor / Hammonds) Stoll likes it here. He probably realizes he was slightly overpaid over the life of his current contract here, which may take the sting out of taking less money to stay here. Also, if he does go somewhere where he's the clear #2 center, its likely that the team will suck. (Let's face it, he's not a #2C on a contender.) Would he rather win and make ~10% less?

I think it comes down to how much of a discount DL asks Stoll to take. My bet is that he takes a small discount to stay, but will walk if DL pushes too hard. I'll put the over/under on the breaking point at 5 -10% of contract value, ie $165k - $330k/yr on a $3.3MM contract.
I agree with all of this, except the dollar amount. I think DL will try to get him south of Brown's contract, so I say $3.1 million per

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10-24-2011, 01:01 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
So you think Stoll is at the same point in his career as Brown, Johnson, Richards and Carter? If you were Stoll's agent you would advise your client to stay, play for less and play less? If you're a member of the players union do you want Stoll taking less from the Kings or the biggest possible free agent deal this summer? I'll take your answers off the air.
If I was his agent, my advise would be to tell him what he can get someplace else in terms of money, role, contract length, etc.

After that, Stoll tells me what to do and ask for based on that info.

If I'm Stoll's agent, and he tells me he wants to stay in LA, doesn't care if he's on the third line or not and is more interested in winning a cup and staying put in one spot for a few more years, and is willing to take a slight pay cut to make that happen, I work with that.

The agent works for the player and tries to get the player what he wants, not what the agent wants. Agents are no different than lawyers that way, explain the options and pursue the one the client wants.

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10-24-2011, 01:02 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
So you think Stoll is at the same point in his career as Brown, Johnson, Richards and Carter? If you were Stoll's agent you would advise your client to stay, play for less and play less? If you're a member of the players union do you want Stoll taking less from the Kings or the biggest possible free agent deal this summer? I'll take your answers off the air.
No, but you brought up DD as a guy saying home town deals are dead... I brought up 3 guys (forgot about JJ, so if you thrown him in that's 4) who were in a similiar situation as DD and took a home town discount to stay with their current teams. If you want the comparison for Stoll look at guys like Hossa, or Pronger.

And no I'm not saying Stoll is in the same class as them, just saying that sweetheart deals to play for a contender still happen and Stoll seems like the type of guy from reading interveiws that he might consider it.

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10-24-2011, 01:22 PM
  #43
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I agree with all of this, except the dollar amount. I think DL will try to get him south of Brown's contract, so I say $3.1 million per
Stoll makes $3.4MM this year, Brown makes $3.5MM this year. (Remember, Brown's contract took up some RFA years, so the $3.1MM is a bad comparison for Stoll, who is a UFA).

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10-24-2011, 02:47 PM
  #44
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I don't see where this big contract some of you are talking about is going to come from.

Stoll is probably going to score 30-35 points this season, his current contract has him being paid as a 2nd line player, which he isn't. I don't see who is going to pay Jarret Stoll over $3 million.

His faceoff skills do add some value but he is never going to be mistaken for a Selke candidate or an overly physical player. He is a tweener player, not skilled enough for a 2nd line role, not good enough all around to be that game changing 3rd line player teams covet in the playoffs and will overpay for.

Stoll was paid based off his 68 point season in 06 and 40 points in 50 games in 07. Since then he has averaged roughly 40 points a season, and this year will probably lower that even more.

I just don't see where the pay day is going to come from.

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10-24-2011, 03:04 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by driller1 View Post
Stoll makes $3.4MM this year, Brown makes $3.5MM this year. (Remember, Brown's contract took up some RFA years, so the $3.1MM is a bad comparison for Stoll, who is a UFA).
Was talking cap hit, since that's really what matters in a salary cap situation for a team like LA that clearly can spend to the cap limit. And I don't think DL cares about UFA years really in regards to a situation like this. You get slotted where your value to the team translates too, and that would be under Brown and Scuderi for sure IMO. Whether or not SToll takes that is of course up to him, but that's where I see DL's offer coming out at, around $3 million, with a maximum of $3.1.

If Williams signed at $3.65 mill, I can see no reason why Stoll would be asking much north of $3 million anyways, assuming he really wants to resign in LA rather than test the market.

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10-24-2011, 03:05 PM
  #46
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I just don't see where the pay day is going to come from.
The Kings baby! 4 - more - years! 4 - more - years!


I can't wait for your meltdown when the Kings re-sign him haha!

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10-24-2011, 03:16 PM
  #47
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The Kings baby! 4 - more - years! 4 - more - years!


I can't wait for your meltdown when the Kings re-sign him haha!
You must not have much faith in Loktionov, I do. And re-signing Stoll would be the end of Loktionov era and that would be very disappointing.

I was just saying I don't see where the big $$ will come from. If someone offers Stoll 4 million, I won't pull a K17 and blame the team, I'll admit I was wrong.

And hey, if he loves SoCal so much I hope he signs with the Ducks.

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10-24-2011, 03:19 PM
  #48
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I don't see where this big contract some of you are talking about is going to come from.

Stoll is probably going to score 30-35 points this season, his current contract has him being paid as a 2nd line player, which he isn't. I don't see who is going to pay Jarret Stoll over $3 million.

His faceoff skills do add some value but he is never going to be mistaken for a Selke candidate or an overly physical player. He is a tweener player, not skilled enough for a 2nd line role, not good enough all around to be that game changing 3rd line player teams covet in the playoffs and will overpay for.

Stoll was paid based off his 68 point season in 06 and 40 points in 50 games in 07. Since then he has averaged roughly 40 points a season, and this year will probably lower that even more.

I just don't see where the pay day is going to come from.
I think Stoll stays in LA and takes a home town discount of sorts, but assuming he does go to UFA, and does hit say 35 points, he'd be very comparible to guys like Tomas Kopecky, Scottie Upshall, Matthew Lombardi, Colby Armstrong and Joel Ward, and all of them got $3 million per or more. Heck, Handzus got $2.5 million and I'd rather Stoll over Handzus in most situations, not to mention Stoll is five years younger than Handzus. Stoll will get $3 million per on the open market, especially if he's as killer in shootouts as he was last year.

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10-24-2011, 03:21 PM
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You must not have much faith in Loktionov, I do. And re-signing Stoll would be the end of Loktionov era and that would be very disappointing.

I was just saying I don't see where the big $$ will come from. If someone offers Stoll 4 million, I won't pull a K17 and blame the team, I'll admit I was wrong.

And hey, if he loves SoCal so much I hope he signs with the Ducks.
Why can't Stoll play the wing? He did it Edmonton from time to time. I think next year a 3rd line of Stoll-Loktionov-Lewis/Richardson would be great, and you'd have three centres so that someone can rotate in for Loki on the key faceoffs if he's not that good at them.

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10-24-2011, 03:50 PM
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Stoll, sadly is a goner. Even though he makes his home here year round and is dating an actress, Loktionov was one of the best forwards in camp and is primed to take that #3 spot.

Hunter, Moreau, Penner, Stoll and Mitchell are all UFA's....no one in Manchester besides Loki is ready to take any one of those spots...possibly Dwight King...so it's either re-sign those guys or go for other UFA's.

Mitchell is an interesting situation, he looks great this year BUT what happens to Voynov? He is NHL ready according to Hextall. Do they deal Scuderi, let Mitchell walk or trade Martinez? You have to do one of those three things to make room for Voynov.

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