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2012 Draft Thread (Draft Lottery 4/10 8PM on NBC Sports)

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02-06-2012, 12:36 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by kshymkiw View Post
Yakupov the wing, reminds you of Crosby the center?
Since he seemed to be talking about build, you know the comparison might be valid to him. Sure didn't seem like he was talking about anything related to on-ice performance.

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My take pretty much echo's Sore Loser, you don't see many guys who play with a reckless abandonment last very long in the league, think of Eric Lindros, and he was a huge man. The smaller frame of Yakupov is going to under go some pretty strong wear and tear. At 190 pounds he is going to get pushed off the puck a lot. I don't see him being the next St. Louis, and don't think he will be as effective in the long run, as Grigorenko.
You are correct, it's impossible with a 5'11" frame to go beyond 190 pounds.. Ever... That last 1" is impossible to overcome. He could never get to 200-210.

Seriously folks? This is what we are down to? There are plenty of good wingers in this league around 190-200 and 5'11" to 6'1". There are even a few that weight less than 190.

Listening to this nit picking, I'm down with taking Nail... I don't care anymore about anyone else. Geez.

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02-06-2012, 12:57 PM
  #277
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Yakupov has the compete level and hunger for winning that this team desperately needs. His work ethic is awesome and everything I have read references how much extra time he spends on the ice trying to get better. I read somewhere that Grigorenko's flaw was his work ethic and a tendancy to take shifts off. We already have enough of those.

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02-06-2012, 01:21 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GScott View Post
Yakupov has the compete level and hunger for winning that this team desperately needs. His work ethic is awesome and everything I have read references how much extra time he spends on the ice trying to get better. I read somewhere that Grigorenko's flaw was his work ethic and a tendancy to take shifts off. We already have enough of those.
Interesting point, and pretty true.

Tougher decision here than people think it is. Everyone says "Fail for Nail," but it's really not that cut and dry, if you really think about it. Best case scenario might be losing the lottery and getting left without another hexed decision, with this team's bad mojo behind it.

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02-06-2012, 01:22 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Since he seemed to be talking about build, you know the comparison might be valid to him. Sure didn't seem like he was talking about anything related to on-ice performance.
I see what you are saying. my bad for not understanding the original comment.



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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
You are correct, it's impossible with a 5'11" frame to go beyond 190 pounds.. Ever... That last 1" is impossible to overcome. He could never get to 200-210.

Seriously folks? This is what we are down to? There are plenty of good wingers in this league around 190-200 and 5'11" to 6'1". There are even a few that weight less than 190.

Listening to this nit picking, I'm down with taking Nail... I don't care anymore about anyone else. Geez.
Crosby plays at 5'11' and 200lbs, which is a good weight for him, I think Crosby is a big stronger on the puck and his skates than what I have seen from Nail. Especially in the WJC's, Nail seemed to be pushed off the puck easier than I would like to have seen.

I don't think it is "all down to size" but for me, his size is somewhat of an issue. I also don't see him making a lasting impact, like a really skilled center can. I like Grigorenko, as I think he is going to be more Malkin like, and Nail will be more Ovie like.

All of this is just a matter of opinion though. In my ideal world, we draft Grigorenko and Vasilevski in the first round. Then if left, I take a run at Galenchyuk as well. I just don't see that "standout" Defensive prospect in this draft, like with Adam Larsson.

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02-06-2012, 01:24 PM
  #280
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FYI and FWIW, NHL.com experts all have us taking Nail with the first pick.

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02-06-2012, 01:25 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GScott View Post
Yakupov has the compete level and hunger for winning that this team desperately needs. His work ethic is awesome and everything I have read references how much extra time he spends on the ice trying to get better. I read somewhere that Grigorenko's flaw was his work ethic and a tendancy to take shifts off. We already have enough of those.
Not that I don't believe you, but could you possibly link me to that article? I haven't read many negatives about either guy. The one negative to Grigorenko I have read over and over, is he has only played in North America for a single season.

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02-06-2012, 01:34 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by kshymkiw View Post
Crosby plays at 5'11' and 200lbs, which is a good weight for him, I think Crosby is a big stronger on the puck and his skates than what I have seen from Nail. Especially in the WJC's, Nail seemed to be pushed off the puck easier than I would like to have seen.
Since Crosby and Nail are something like 6 years apart, not to mention, what 30 pounds?, I'll just ignore this. Thanks.

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02-06-2012, 01:37 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Since Crosby and Nail are something like 6 years apart, not to mention, what 30 pounds?, I'll just ignore this. Thanks.
10 lbs apart, but yes 6 years in age. My basis for saying Grigorenko, is I think long term he is the better performer. It may take him an extra year or two to develop, but once he does, I think he is the bigger impact.

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02-06-2012, 01:43 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by kshymkiw View Post
10 lbs apart, but yes 6 years in age. My basis for saying Grigorenko, is I think long term he is the better performer. It may take him an extra year or two to develop, but once he does, I think he is the bigger impact.
Did he gain 20 pounds along the way from somewhere? I'm still showing him as around 170 on a couple of sites I am looking it. Edit - the latest ranking I've seen shows him at a little over 180. That usually means he's more like 178.

I know SL listed him as 190 with the term "we", but I looked elsewhere.

You've just gone from speculation to even more gut feel. You aren't reeling me in.

I am now on board for Nail even more. When you get to this level of nit picking on what has been a consensus #1 up till now, I get really, really worried. People look, at the last minute, for something to harp on.

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02-06-2012, 01:58 PM
  #285
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The OHL lists Yakupov as 5'11, 190 but I doubt until the Combine there's no telling how accurate that is. The IIHF's site for the WJC has him listed as 5'11, 161.

As for Yakupov's height, here's a picture of him, Igor Larionov and Alex Galchenyuk from last year.



Larionov is listed as 5'9, but likely is a tad shorter than that. Alex Galchenyuk is listed at 6'1.


Last edited by JacketsFanWest: 02-06-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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02-06-2012, 02:17 PM
  #286
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When did BB become such a mean-spirited guy?

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02-06-2012, 02:20 PM
  #287
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When did BB become such a mean-spirited guy?
Birth. So what do you think of Nail and this other G guy?

Mean spirited? No. Tired of Priest being the bringer of all evil and Nail daring to only be 5'11" and that being used as a weapon so they can go after their guy? That just brings out the impatience.

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02-06-2012, 08:45 PM
  #288
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When did BB become such a mean-spirited guy?

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02-06-2012, 09:08 PM
  #289
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Hey now, I wasn't mean to you... :p

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02-06-2012, 10:46 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by ClevelandJacketFan View Post
FYI and FWIW, NHL.com experts all have us taking Nail with the first pick.
They can't be very good experts if they're actually predicting us to win the lottery now can they?

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02-06-2012, 10:55 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
You are correct, it's impossible with a 5'11" frame to go beyond 190 pounds.. Ever... That last 1" is impossible to overcome. He could never get to 200-210.

Seriously folks? This is what we are down to? There are plenty of good wingers in this league around 190-200 and 5'11" to 6'1". There are even a few that weight less than 190.

Listening to this nit picking, I'm down with taking Nail... I don't care anymore about anyone else. Geez.
I'm 5'11" and living proof that a body that size can carry much more than 190 pounds.

I'm in your camp on this one. The word "inch", quotation marks included, is the difference between 5'11" and 6'0". It's so insignificant as to be inconsequential.

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02-07-2012, 12:24 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I'm 5'11" and living proof that a body that size can carry much more than 190 pounds.

I'm in your camp on this one. The word "inch", quotation marks included, is the difference between 5'11" and 6'0". It's so insignificant as to be inconsequential.
I find it helps if you describe it as the difference between 71 and 72 inches.

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02-07-2012, 12:47 AM
  #293
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I'd be livid if we don't get Yakupov. He fights for the puck like Forsberg did, and channels Bure on the rush.

Don't even care if he helps the record. I just want to watch him day in and out.

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02-07-2012, 12:53 AM
  #294
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I find it helps if you describe it as the difference between 71 and 72 inches.
I think that the bigger surprise is that a man is acknowledging that there is in fact a difference (albeit slight) between a claimed size and an actual size.

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02-07-2012, 05:12 PM
  #295
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Alex Galchenyuk is skating and has a 95% chance of playing by the beginning of March. At least he'll be playing before the end of the season and scouts will be able to get a look at him post-knee injury.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/junio...ies_nhl_draft/

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02-07-2012, 05:37 PM
  #296
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If Galchenyuk is back and healthy this is going to get a lot more complicated. Fully recovered I think he's the best prospect declaring for the draft at the most valuable position. But not only is his return is going muddle the top pick discussion further, but it is going to impact Nail's numbers as well.

Everyone lets redouble our prayers that we have a new front office because this draft is going to be one that will be full of superstars and busts.

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02-07-2012, 05:46 PM
  #297
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If Galchenyuk is back and healthy this is going to get a lot more complicated. Fully recovered I think he's the best prospect declaring for the draft at the most valuable position. But not only is his return is going muddle the top pick discussion further, but it is going to impact Nail's numbers as well.

Everyone lets redouble our prayers that we have a new front office because this draft is going to be one that will be full of superstars and busts.
Could we honestly go wrong with Nail? That is a serious question that needs to be asked to our FO bc of our development. Moore looks good yes but wtf are they doing with Johansen? I think centers take longer to develop then wings and Galchenyuk is someone we could screw up. Not saying he is going to be a bust, but maybe with our organization, we should go with the more sure thing notable number 1. Quite frankly, this happens every year. The consensus number 1 pick gets looked at for year after year and when it comes draft time, they question if he should go first. Finally we have some kind of consensus number 1 that doesnt look like it will change and hear we are debating if we should pick someone else. Tell me why we need another center? I want Yakupov.

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02-07-2012, 06:14 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
Could we honestly go wrong with Nail? That is a serious question that needs to be asked to our FO bc of our development. Moore looks good yes but wtf are they doing with Johansen? I think centers take longer to develop then wings and Galchenyuk is someone we could screw up. Not saying he is going to be a bust, but maybe with our organization, we should go with the more sure thing notable number 1. Quite frankly, this happens every year. The consensus number 1 pick gets looked at for year after year and when it comes draft time, they question if he should go first. Finally we have some kind of consensus number 1 that doesnt look like it will change and hear we are debating if we should pick someone else. Tell me why we need another center? I want Yakupov.
Honestly no, I don't think you could go wrong with either one. Nail is a great talent but if I remember correctly he only became the consensus number one after Galchenyuk went down with what was supposed to be a season ending injury. I personally don't know what to say, if you want Yakupov that is not only your right but also possibly a smarter position than mine. I think it depends on how you want this team structured. If you want a top line heavy team (Washington, Anahiem, Vancouver) than Yakupov is your guy. I personally prefer the Pittsburgh method of Strength down the middle (i.e. Johan, Galchenyuk, Brass)

Your argument that Nail will be harder to screw up is valid, but quite frankly if this organization puts its mind to it it can screw anyone up.

The biggest reason that we have had problems in the draft has the front office. i.e. Bad scouting for character (Filatov, Zherdev), bad scouting for talent ceiling (Klesla). The organizations approach to development didn't help but the jackets made bad choices on who to draft first so they were screwed from the start.

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02-07-2012, 08:53 PM
  #299
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The 2012 NHL Entry Draft will be many things to many people, but let's start by branding it as this: unusual.

It's not every day that the top two prospects are both Russian, but that is indeed the case on TSN's Mid-Season Top 40 Prospects for this year's draft.

Sarnia Sting winger Nail Yakupov is the clear choice as No. 1 at this point, getting the vote of 9 of 10 NHL team scouts surveyed by TSN.

"It's Yakupov and everyone else," one scout told TSN. "We always talk about where there's a drop-off in talent in the first round. Well, this year's it after No. 1."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=387177

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02-07-2012, 09:13 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
The 2012 NHL Entry Draft will be many things to many people, but let's start by branding it as this: unusual.

It's not every day that the top two prospects are both Russian, but that is indeed the case on TSN's Mid-Season Top 40 Prospects for this year's draft.

Sarnia Sting winger Nail Yakupov is the clear choice as No. 1 at this point, getting the vote of 9 of 10 NHL team scouts surveyed by TSN.

"It's Yakupov and everyone else," one scout told TSN. "We always talk about where there's a drop-off in talent in the first round. Well, this year's it after No. 1."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=387177

I trust McKenzie.
As of today Yak is the way to go, folks can debate other players until the sun sets but to according to most professional scouts, sites, NHL sources etc most say he the pick... a no brainer AS OF TODAY.

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