HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade Rumors and Proposal Thread XVIII

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-27-2011, 02:49 PM
  #76
operasen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Never suggested he couldn't score, but he is lazy defensively and takes games off regularly. Obviously you like him, but I think GMs around the league are fairly aware of his talent, but penchant to not work hard.

Also never suggested the Canadiens would trade him, just said I doubt he would fetch a first round pick, let alone a 1st and a prospect.

I also don't support your notion that all these players are better than Lee or Kuba, matter of opinion I guess.
Kovalev Lite - No Thanks. Prima Donnas will not work here with macLean guiding the ship.

As for Turris - I'd swap Foligno and Lee for him, IF we got his name on a two year deal we liked first. Neither of these guys are in our plans and as indicated we need short-term depth at centre. Next year we may not though.

Next year we will choose from Spezza, Zibanejad, DaCosta, Regin, Smith, Konopka (I think we re-sign him for face-offs), Winchester, O'Brien, Grant, Pageau, Greening (can play centre), 2012 1st or 2nd rounder, Locke - without thinking of Turris.


Last edited by operasen: 10-27-2011 at 03:10 PM.
operasen is offline  
Old
10-27-2011, 03:00 PM
  #77
MAK19
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 14,323
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Filatov was very responsible defensively when he was playing, he just needs more confidence offensively. The kid oozes talent, far moveso than Nick, hopefull some time with KK will bring out the best in him.

Nick can be effective, but he is far from a reliable top 6 point producer, and can also look pretty lost defensively. IMO the real question facing the Sens is does Nick fit into the team's future?

With the likes of Zibby, Da Costa, Silfverberg, Stone, Puempel, etc, on the way and players like Daugavins, Hoffman, O'Brien, Grant, etc available now, maybe it is the time to make a decision on Nick and see what his market value is.
I don't think Foligno looks bad defensively. He's fine. When Filatov was up here, he never seemed to have the puck on his stick and hardly did anything to get it back. I guess he was fine in defensive positioning. But Foligno can grind it along the boards, be a presence in front of the net and wear down opponent. Filatov was kind of just there, not doing much of anything.

Though I agree a decision needs to made about Foligno. But that should wait til at least the trade deadline for 1-to evaluate Foligno over this season and 2-to evaluate other players in the system and better project who will be NHL ready next year, and thus determine if Foligno should have a spot on the team/is in the long term plans.

MAK19 is offline  
Old
10-27-2011, 06:19 PM
  #78
SensAreReligion
GT- CxC Senator
 
SensAreReligion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,022
vCash: 500
Do you think we should go for Turris?

SensAreReligion is offline  
Old
10-27-2011, 06:22 PM
  #79
mitch27
Registered User
 
mitch27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,375
vCash: 500
The Phoenix fan in me says no, but there's no denying the kid has talent. He just needs to bulk up. But with what's going on he might have some serious attitude problems.

mitch27 is offline  
Old
10-27-2011, 06:33 PM
  #80
ARS
Registered User
 
ARS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,548
vCash: 500
No thanks to giving anything valuable for Turris.

This kid is 22, has a career high of 25 points, has been given ample opportunity to be successful in the NHL and is already making trade demands.

If we were to trade for Turris, I would expect us to give something similar to what we gave up for Filatov.

ARS is offline  
Old
10-27-2011, 06:56 PM
  #81
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Nick Foligno + Brian Lee + 2nd for Turris.

Lee isn't ever going to get a fair shake here, Foligno is replaceable (IMO) and a 2nd isn't THAT bad to get rid of. I think it would also help us immediately with Regin likely out for an extended period and Zibanejad back in Sweden.
Foligno isn't replaceable right now because he is one of the very few players on this team who have proven that they belong in the top-9 of an NHL team.

He's also a better player than Turris right now. He produces more, is a better defensive player and is much tougher than Turris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trobby View Post
Foligno + 2nd
or
Lee + 2nd
Still too much. Throw the 2nd rounder on the Turris side.

Foligno for Turris and 2nd.

1-way playing panseys who don't score don't have a lot of value regardless of how high they were drafted 4 1/2 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
But for the most part Turris would replace Foligno's production and he was money in the playoffs last year.
We could sign a minor league tweener like the next 'Randy Robitaille' to replace Turris' offensive and defensive contributions to an NHL team and it wouldn't cost us anything.

Oh, wait... Turris was good for an entire week? I take it all back.

When has Turris proven that he can handle a 2nd line job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Nick can be effective, but he is far from a reliable top 6 point producer, and can also look pretty lost defensively. IMO the real question facing the Sens is does Nick fit into the team's future?
He's an all-round 3rd line LW who is competing with some fairly weak initial competition for a role in the top-6. He's also been identified as a part of the leadership core at the age of 23. He has a present and future on this team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARS View Post
No thanks to giving anything valuable for Turris.

This kid is 22, has a career high of 25 points, has been given ample opportunity to be successful in the NHL and is already making trade demands.

If we were to trade for Turris, I would expect us to give something similar to what we gave up for Filatov.

trentmccleary is online now  
Old
10-27-2011, 07:35 PM
  #82
Robin Lehner*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,999
vCash: 500
Butler for Turris?

Robin Lehner* is offline  
Old
10-27-2011, 07:43 PM
  #83
White Goodman
smell that fitness?
 
White Goodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: England
Posts: 6,780
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler16 View Post
Butler for Turris?
Yes.

White Goodman is offline  
Old
10-27-2011, 08:22 PM
  #84
aragorn
YES WE CAN
 
aragorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Azores
Posts: 12,010
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler16 View Post
Butler for Turris?
I wouldn't Butler's scoring could return, I'd do Lee for Turris no more than that.

aragorn is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 11:11 AM
  #85
TeamRenzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post
Yes.
Why? What has Turris accomplished in his NHL career to warrant fetching anything of value in a trade? He has red flags all over him. He might be someone you take a chance on if you do not have to give up a roster player or a pick of significant value (maybe 3-4th rounder)

TeamRenzo is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 11:24 AM
  #86
Curtinho
YNWA
 
Curtinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamRenzo View Post
Why? What has Turris accomplished in his NHL career to warrant fetching anything of value in a trade? He has red flags all over him. He might be someone you take a chance on if you do not have to give up a roster player or a pick of significant value (maybe 3-4th rounder)
Considering the amount of players we're going to have fighting for a spot next year it wouldn't hurt us to drop a guy like Butler who hasn't really shown anything exceptional. He has a nice shot and decent hockey sense but that's about it. I don't even know if he's good enough to play in our top 6 right now and he's not a bottom 6 player.

Curtinho is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 11:37 AM
  #87
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Considering the amount of players we're going to have fighting for a spot next year it wouldn't hurt us to drop a guy like Butler who hasn't really shown anything exceptional. He has a nice shot and decent hockey sense but that's about it. I don't even know if he's good enough to play in our top 6 right now and he's not a bottom 6 player.
A lot of players hit a wall in their second year because they think they have it all figured out, aren't scared enough anymore, can't pace themselves over a full season, get injured, etc.

They're all going to disappoint you constantly if you don't start to spend more time coming to conclusions.

trentmccleary is online now  
Old
10-28-2011, 11:43 AM
  #88
operasen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,709
vCash: 500
Turris has not even played the game for 6 months with his holdout.

It would take him the rest of the year just to get into Phoenix shape, never mind MacLean's speed shape.

Plus the system is quite different and our guys have had Camp 101 and 10 games to get a rhythm going

operasen is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 12:33 PM
  #89
Lenny the Lynx
Registered User
 
Lenny the Lynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,362
vCash: 50
I'd do Lee for Turris - I think that would be a fair deal straight up.

Lenny the Lynx is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 12:55 PM
  #90
Bob Kudelski
Registered User
 
Bob Kudelski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,383
vCash: 500
I'd do Butler for Turris.

Butler looks to be a Bochenski/Muckalt hybrid with a top-end potential of Mark Parrish. I'd be willing to move him for a guy like Turris.

Bob Kudelski is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 01:03 PM
  #91
L'Aveuglette
Beef-mode activated
 
L'Aveuglette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,953
vCash: 1000
I'd do Butler for Turris, who imo, has bigger upside than Bobby.

L'Aveuglette is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 02:06 PM
  #92
Curtinho
YNWA
 
Curtinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,102
vCash: 500
Is there any chance that Omark could be had from Edmonton? I don't know if he's worth going after because we already have enough prospects in our system, but I also feel as though moving Lee + for him wouldn't hurt us.

Curtinho is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 02:31 PM
  #93
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
A lot of players hit a wall in their second year because they think they have it all figured out, aren't scared enough anymore, can't pace themselves over a full season, get injured, etc.

They're all going to disappoint you constantly if you don't start to spend more time coming to conclusions.
Not favouring one side or the other in the Butler or Turris discussion, but there are similarities in both cases as they relate to the Sens.

In the case of Turris, Spezza, Zibanejad, Regin, Smith, Da Costa probably eliminate Ottawa from a Turris trade. He would cost the Sens an asset, be redundant in a year, and be more expensive than any current Sens' center with the exception of Spezza. I would be really surprised to see Murray make a deal for him under these circumstances.

In Butler's case, he really hasn't had an opportunity to prove himself yet this season, however, injuries always seem to provide opportunities and Greening has grabbed it and run. The real problem Butler is now facing is Michalek, Alfie and Neil have all played well, so for Butler to get into the top 9, he must replace Foligno or Daugavins playing on his off wing. I really think he is in for a long, tough struggle this season, unless injuries or a trade opens up a spot.

Butler is a sniper, a goal scorer, when he isn't doing that he really doesn't belong in the line-up. So when he returns, hopefully he finds the touch again. Considering Silfverberg, Daugavins, and Hoffman will be knocking on the door next fall, Butler needs to find the net or he might be expendable.

Holdurbreathe is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 02:40 PM
  #94
guyzeur
Registered User
 
guyzeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,665
vCash: 500
Which defenseman has more value to other GMs: Lee or Carkner?

Carkner? Tough, somewhat physical and a great vet to have in a team, Perfect bottom 6

Lee? Average Shutdown D, trying to be physical with still some potential to improve as a top 4.

Your thoughts

guyzeur is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 02:49 PM
  #95
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
Which defenseman has more value to other GMs: Lee or Carkner?

Carkner? Tough, somewhat physical and a great vet to have in a team, Perfect bottom 6

Lee? Average Shutdown D, trying to be physical with still some potential to improve as a top 4.

Your thoughts
Lee probably, he has shown he can play in the top four. I am not yet convinced he is the guy the Sens will move though, I still think Kuba is probably at the top of Murray's list.

Carkner will end up being the 7th guy, I really don't see him fitting in on a regular basis. Most teams aren't even deploying a heavyweight now.

Holdurbreathe is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 02:56 PM
  #96
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by L'Aveuglette View Post
I'd do Butler for Turris, who imo, has bigger upside than Bobby.
Problem is where does Turris fit in the organization next year.

Holdurbreathe is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 03:58 PM
  #97
operasen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,709
vCash: 500
This is correct in my view as well. Our centre depth next year will include the likes of Spezza, Regin, Zibanejad, DaCosta, Smith, Konopka (I think they resign him for faceoffs), Locke, O'Brien, Grant, Pageau and our possible 2012 1st rounder. Throw in Greening and Foligno who can also skate down the middle. And there are others after these guys as well.

Turris for a year - he'll never be in shape or know the system.

operasen is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 04:05 PM
  #98
HSF
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Problem is where does Turris fit in the organization next year.
move Zbad to wing if he pans out

HSF is offline  
Old
10-28-2011, 04:05 PM
  #99
JonnyMacSen
Divide and Conacher
 
JonnyMacSen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Problem is where does Turris fit in the organization next year.
I know you can't base a trade around "what-if's" but if Regin does end up getting hurt again and requires surgery, he could be the odd man out next year as he's a RFA and they could let him walk or trade his rights at the draft. Granted even without Regin we have alot of depth at center.

JonnyMacSen is online now  
Old
10-28-2011, 04:14 PM
  #100
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSF View Post
move Zbad to wing if he pans out
Zbad isn't being moved to the wing, anyone that watched that experiment knows the Sens will leave him develop and play as a center.

Holdurbreathe is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:54 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.