Hear, hear. I feel like we're watching two different players when people break that out. I can believe that Enstrom is still working up to his "A" game, but I keep finding myself drawn to watching him more than almost any other player -- and not just because he's on the ice more than anyone else. It's because he's doing great stuff out there. Cleans up a lot of messes or messes-in-the-making. Plays steady, smart and hard, and is one of our most consistent guys -- right up to the end.
Plus, given his linemate's uh, "quirks," he seems to "get" Buff as well as anyone could be expected to do. That speaks pretty well of his talent in and of itself.
There was one play he made in the 3rd. We were hemmed in for over a minute, iced the puck a couple of times. It was like he said "ENOUGH ALREADY". He muscled a much larger guy off the puck in open ice, took it away from him, did a couple of quick spins, reset the team calmly and switched it to his partner. I was extremely impressed, considering he was obviously gassed from the icings.
I am absolutely dumbfounded that with the serious holes/ lacklustre play of certain key players on this team, that anyone would have negative comments about Enstrom.
Once his offensive game comes around, people are going to have to eat thier words (though I think they should now)
so pissed that I was sick... I fell asleep and only woke up for the third... I can take outplaying a team and losing... its better then some of their bomb performances and it can only be an encouraging sign...
I thought the refs had a really good game for the Rangers. I hope they paid them well for their efforts.
Biron got so lucky... I don't know how many times he looked over his shoulder looking for the puck, even he had no idea how it didn't go in.
The crowd really did try to jumpstart the Jets, but for some reason they really came out flat for a great duration of the 1st.
The Rangers were playing nothing more than desperate hockey for the majority of the game.
Jets MUST score more in the 3rd period. I think they have.... one third period goal this season? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the third is nasty for them.
Lots of blocked shots by Rangers BUT Buff and some others put some real nasty stingers into their legs. You could tell the Rangers were starting to second think going down on a shot.... those hurt like hell. I wish the jets would have kept doing that, but instead they started looking for the perfect goal and it wasn't going to happen.
That was one of those games where a loss can't be faulted upon effort.
I can see why Noel was limiting Kane's time on ice to start the season though; he was soft on some pucks in the offensive zone last night and that resulted in a few giveaways. Same with Burmistrov.
Buff with the stupid penalty that cost us a goal.
Can't fault Mason; he was very good. McArdle was a spark plug out there; he really is a borderline AHL player but brings more to this team than does Stapleton. Maxwell was alright.
I did notice one thing last night. While we now have guys populating the front of the net, we lack guys that will consistently do the truly dirty work down in front required to pot the dirty goals. Hartnell for Philly last night was a perfect example; not the greatest player but sometimes is able to score them via sheer will, hard work and determination in the crease, just grit, a willingness to shove the goalie into his net if required. Time to move Buff up front and to staple his fat ass in front of the net whenever we have the puck?
Hard to fault the team effort last night though. The outcome was disappointing but at least they worked hard.
I was at both the Carolina game and at last nights game as well.
For some reason there was much more emotion and intensity on Saturday, both from the players and the crowd. I would have thought with the Rangers finishing off a lengthy road trip, that the Jets would have come out fired up and laid the body early and often. I am a little surprised and disappointed that they didn't.
I agree with the majority here that our "1" line needs to be better. For us to compete, they need to be MUCH better. I agree with the thoughts on Wheeler. He really needs to pick up his game and work harder each night. Little, IMO, is skating ok (I still think he is a better and more shifty skater than we have seen so far), but I don't feel he is really battling hard enough. I have seen too many curls at the half boards, and curls around the net looking to dish from him. I would love to see him get a little more aggressive (and selfish), and drive to the net and take some shots.
Kane/Antro/and Burmi were good. Burmi is a true star in the making, and Antropov is turning the non believers (I admit, I was not pro Antropov before the season) into believers. He is a rock down low, and has been solid in our zone as well. I thought Kane had an OK night. He's skating hard, and trying to make things happen, but it's not going his way yet. I'm hoping that once he gets a couple more, things might start to snowball (positively) for him.
I thought Wellwood made some very good moves down low. He was cycling well, and made some very nice reads. Maxwell I thought was average. McArdle I thought had a decent game. I didn't think he was such a good skater. I was expecting a slower, more physical "muscle" type, but he really impressed me with his skating. I might go out on a limb and say with a healthy Slater, that McArdle could possibly battle Glass for the spot on the 4th line.
On D, I think Stuart and Bogo had another good game. I just can't say enough about Stuart. This guy is a beast, warrior, whatever. I absolutely love having guys like him. Bogo was solid again I thought. He was making good passes out of our zone, and was skating well. He also brought out the physical play as well. I know it's early, but he looks very different than last year. It just looks like he has more confidence. Whether it's because he truly took to heart the whole "fresh start" message, or if he isn't being ripped by Torchetti for every mistake, I think he's playing with some more confidence and it shows.
Oduya had a decent game. For me it's frustrating to see Oduya's decision making because the guy IS a pretty good skater. If he could just make decent choices with his passing, he could be serviceable.
Jones is not good. I don't think Meech is that great of a D man, but at least he can skate. I would make Jones a permanent member of the press box once Hainsy gets back.
Enstrom I though had another strong game. You really need to watch everything this guys does to appreciate it. From the covering for Buff's lapses, to breaking up developing plays, to his breakouts and special teams work, to his ability to calm things down in our zone and re group, he is a very good D man. And I still think he isn't playing his best yet.
Mason had another strong game. I would imagine that our Atlanta friends must be wondering who this new goalie is and what did he do with Chris Mason. I can't remember Mason playing this well in Atlanta. At least not last year.
Last, and maybe least is Buff. This isn't like one of those "Enstrom sucks" rants but IMO Buff is not playing very well. And what scares me most, is that unless he wants to change, I don't think he will because to me what's holding him back is his attitude, and his vision of what he sees himself as, as a player.
Forget for a moment about him becoming a forward. I just don't see him even embracing becoming a capable defenseman. For a guy with his size and skating ability, he could be a dominant physical threat from the back end. The kind of guy that makes the other team keep their heads on swivals coming into our zone. But he doesn't do that. Instead he wants to go on Bobby Orr rushes every second time he has the puck. Which causes a winger who is not trained as a D man, to have to cover for him. If he just picked his spots and came in from the point on back door plays that would be one thing. But the guy is down low in the other end more often than not.
What makes it even worse, is that he gives almost 0 effort to backcheck. A couple of times last night when he went on yet another rush, I told my buddy to watch him backcheck. Buff didn't give any effort to backcheck. No head down, no skating. His head was up and I think he was the LAST guy back.
I'm all for trying to have players play to their strengths. But I just don't see how his style of play will make us a winning team (this year, next year, the year after, etc). I just don't see consistent, playoff or Stanley Cup caliber teams, employing players that "do their own thing".
I really hope that Buff decides to become a defenseman. Because IMO, this "Rover" position that he is currently playing won't help this team get to the next level.
I was at both the Carolina game and at last nights game as well.
For some reason there was much more emotion and intensity on Saturday, both from the players and the crowd. I would have thought with the Rangers finishing off a lengthy road trip, that the Jets would have come out fired up and laid the body early and often. I am a little surprised and disappointed that they didn't.
I agree with the majority here that our "1" line needs to be better. For us to compete, they need to be MUCH better. I agree with the thoughts on Wheeler. He really needs to pick up his game and work harder each night. Little, IMO, is skating ok (I still think he is a better and more shifty skater than we have seen so far), but I don't feel he is really battling hard enough. I have seen too many curls at the half boards, and curls around the net looking to dish from him. I would love to see him get a little more aggressive (and selfish), and drive to the net and take some shots.
Kane/Antro/and Burmi were good. Burmi is a true star in the making, and Antropov is turning the non believers (I admit, I was not pro Antropov before the season) into believers. He is a rock down low, and has been solid in our zone as well. I thought Kane had an OK night. He's skating hard, and trying to make things happen, but it's not going his way yet. I'm hoping that once he gets a couple more, things might start to snowball (positively) for him.
I thought Wellwood made some very good moves down low. He was cycling well, and made some very nice reads. Maxwell I thought was average. McArdle I thought had a decent game. I didn't think he was such a good skater. I was expecting a slower, more physical "muscle" type, but he really impressed me with his skating. I might go out on a limb and say with a healthy Slater, that McArdle could possibly battle Glass for the spot on the 4th line.
On D, I think Stuart and Bogo had another good game. I just can't say enough about Stuart. This guy is a beast, warrior, whatever. I absolutely love having guys like him. Bogo was solid again I thought. He was making good passes out of our zone, and was skating well. He also brought out the physical play as well. I know it's early, but he looks very different than last year. It just looks like he has more confidence. Whether it's because he truly took to heart the whole "fresh start" message, or if he isn't being ripped by Torchetti for every mistake, I think he's playing with some more confidence and it shows.
Oduya had a decent game. For me it's frustrating to see Oduya's decision making because the guy IS a pretty good skater. If he could just make decent choices with his passing, he could be serviceable.
Jones is not good. I don't think Meech is that great of a D man, but at least he can skate. I would make Jones a permanent member of the press box once Hainsy gets back.
Enstrom I though had another strong game. You really need to watch everything this guys does to appreciate it. From the covering for Buff's lapses, to breaking up developing plays, to his breakouts and special teams work, to his ability to calm things down in our zone and re group, he is a very good D man. And I still think he isn't playing his best yet.
Mason had another strong game. I would imagine that our Atlanta friends must be wondering who this new goalie is and what did he do with Chris Mason. I can't remember Mason playing this well in Atlanta. At least not last year.
Last, and maybe least is Buff. This isn't like one of those "Enstrom sucks" rants but IMO Buff is not playing very well. And what scares me most, is that unless he wants to change, I don't think he will because to me what's holding him back is his attitude, and his vision of what he sees himself as, as a player.
Forget for a moment about him becoming a forward. I just don't see him even embracing becoming a capable defenseman. For a guy with his size and skating ability, he could be a dominant physical threat from the back end. The kind of guy that makes the other team keep their heads on swivals coming into our zone. But he doesn't do that. Instead he wants to go on Bobby Orr rushes every second time he has the puck. Which causes a winger who is not trained as a D man, to have to cover for him. If he just picked his spots and came in from the point on back door plays that would be one thing. But the guy is down low in the other end more often than not.
What makes it even worse, is that he gives almost 0 effort to backcheck. A couple of times last night when he went on yet another rush, I told my buddy to watch him backcheck. Buff didn't give any effort to backcheck. No head down, no skating. His head was up and I think he was the LAST guy back.
I'm all for trying to have players play to their strengths. But I just don't see how his style of play will make us a winning team (this year, next year, the year after, etc). I just don't see consistent, playoff or Stanley Cup caliber teams, employing players that "do their own thing".
I really hope that Buff decides to become a defenseman. Because IMO, this "Rover" position that he is currently playing won't help this team get to the next level.
Very well said, pretty much agreed on all counts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo
I realize it's still early but so far the only difference I see between the Thrashers and the Jets is 1300 miles and a better looking sweater.
I always liked our white away jerseys. They looked sharp.
Thor is a good player but we need both of them on the ice at the same time to get that 4th line fully intact.
Let's hope that's the only game he misses.
This was pretty much my strongest opinion after the game when I was thinking about it, it seemed like one of the top two lines was out every shift at the game, and looking at the game sheet now the top two lines all played ~20 minutes, and the bottom two line were all under 10 minutes (other than Tim Stapleton for some reason..).
Without Slater we lose what was looking to be a dominant 4th line, and Noel clearly wasn't comfortable giving them very much in the way of ice time. When Scheifele was sent down I had wondered if they would start playing the third line a little more often since they didn't seem to want to play his line in too many situations, but despite playing fairly well and having some really good shifts Wellwood's line barely played either.
I think the key thing to take away from this game is this team lacks NHL level depth, the top two lines are looking alright to this point in time, some more goals would be great sure, but if you're riding them as hard as you currently are throughout a game you can't be surprised when everyone's out of gas and can't mount a comeback in the last 5 minutes of the game when you really need to push for that tying goal.
A part of me has been thinking and wishing Zherdev decided to come here in the offseason. I'm sure many will disagree with this, and that's okay, but this team could use his goal scoring abilities and natural talent right now.
I know it's a moot point bringing it up now, obviously. But we lack a true finisher or two on this team and it's hurting us big time.
A part of me thinks we're relying and playing guys like Ladd, Little and Wheeler in roles they are not and possibly will never be good enough for. They'd be great on the 2nd and 3rd lines if this team had some talent in the top 6, but we don't.
It is becoming more and more evident that this team will only go as far as our "best players" will take us, and when your "best players" are possibly in roles over their heads, you get the results we've gotten to date. Our record is exactly what it should be considering our top line has been non-existent the entire season. I don't think any team would be worth a damn if they weren't getting production from their "best players".
It's tough, but, perhaps this is a good thing and management is getting it's firsthand picture painted for them of what this team is lacking.
Gump: Great name BTW. That's all well and good and I'm truly happy the team is a place where they'll be appreciated. Still, the fans, the media, and the suits don't lace up the skates on game day.
You can find encouragement in the Carolina game; a division rival that has over the years been a tough team to beat and has been playing pretty well this season.
Jets MUST score more in the 3rd period. I think they have.... one third period goal this season? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the third is nasty for them.
I heard this stat earlier today
Bad enough 5 one goal games, but only 1 third period goal (against Montreal in home opener)... yikes!
... a lot better playing and creativity the last couple of games, but somehow we gotta start getting some production from a few guys ..... and hopefully we can find a way to start pulling victories out of these one goal games, because I think we're going to be in a lot of them
Last edited by Hammer Slammer: 10-25-2011 at 11:10 AM.
Reason: fixed quotes
A part of me has been thinking and wishing Zherdev decided to come here in the offseason. I'm sure many will disagree with this, and that's okay, but this team could use his goal scoring abilities and natural talent right now.
I know it's a moot point bringing it up now, obviously. But we lack a true finisher or two on this team and it's hurting us big time.
A part of me thinks we're relying and playing guys like Ladd, Little and Wheeler in roles they are not and possibly will never be good enough for. They'd be great on the 2nd and 3rd lines if this team had some talent in the top 6, but we don't.
It is becoming more and more evident that this team will only go as far as our "best players" will take us, and when your "best players" are possibly in roles over their heads, you get the results we've gotten to date. Our record is exactly what it should be considering our top line has been non-existent the entire season. I don't think any team would be worth a damn if they weren't getting production from their "best players".
It's tough, but, perhaps this is a good thing and management is getting it's firsthand picture painted for them of what this team is lacking.
I agree with much of your premise but Zherdev is hardly the sort of forward we need(ed); if he was a top 6 NHL talent he would be currently employed in that role.
In my own view what we need is a much higher compete level up front. Look at the Bruins last year as an example; the only truly elite level talent up front there was Bergeron. They didn't win the cup with snipers; they did it with grind, and good defense and goaltending. I'm not denigrating the efforts of a Lucic either for example; he competes, is exactly the sort of player I'm referring to.
This team is way too easy to play against down low; we need a Chris Neil/ Scotty Hartnell type down low to do some dirty work. I don't see any of that on this Jets team.
Agreed that we aren't deep enough up front though.
Buff would be a viable option down low but according to his interview yesterday where he said "I'll never be a forward again", it seems that's not in the cards.
Buff would be a viable option down low but according to his interview yesterday where he said "I'll never be a forward again", it seems that's not in the cards.
Saw that; very disappointing.
I thought coaching and management made personnel decisions, not players.
The Jets dominated much of the third period but didn't get the bounces or the calls. I was impressed by both Stapleton and Oduya. That's not to say they were great, they were just far better than I expected. Both played smart games and took away scoring chances for the Rangers. Antropov was a beast around the net. Kane and Wheeler could learn from Antropov - sometimes it's better to take the puck behind the net and set up the cycle rather than try to power it to the net from the outside.
It was a great game to see in person. I don't mind them losing that way. Hopefully they can keep this up on their road trip.
Buff would be a viable option down low but according to his interview yesterday where he said "I'll never be a forward again", it seems that's not in the cards.
This is starting to be very concerning to me. If this is true and the comments he made that the coaches don't want him down low they want him at the point. I'd start shopping him now. You won't win with players that think they decide how to play or where they'll play.
If was Noel I'd give him the choice start playing D at an NHL level and playing like your told or your going up front. I'd take no crap.
I agree with much of your premise but Zherdev is hardly the sort of forward we need(ed); if he was a top 6 NHL talent he would be currently employed in that role.
In my own view what we need is a much higher compete level up front. Look at the Bruins last year as an example; the only truly elite level talent up front there was Bergeron. They didn't win the cup with snipers; they did it with grind, and good defense and goaltending. I'm not denigrating the efforts of a Lucic either for example; he competes, is exactly the sort of player I'm referring to.
This team is way too easy to play against down low; we need a Chris Neil/ Scotty Hartnell type down low to do some dirty work. I don't see any of that on this Jets team.
Agreed that we aren't deep enough up front though.
I can agree to that. I've said since the summer that this team is built much like Boston, no true superstars in the 80+ point column, but likely/hopefully a solid amount of 50-60 point guys, 40-50 point guys, 30-40 point guys, etc. Nothing too fancy, but a solid, balanced attack that can get the job done. Bruins have it, not saying we do, just a bit similar, if you will. We aren't there yet, but that's where I see this core potentially getting in 2-3 years, hopefully. But even as this team is right now, I believe if we had some more natural goal scoring talent in the top 6, we could be a much better team. Right now I view this team as not good enough to be right in the basement, but also not good enough to be a playoff team. We're right in the middle, in my opinion. If we had 1 or 2 natural goal scorers in our top 6, I think we would be better off and could compete with more teams than not on many nights.
We'll agree to disagree on Zherdev. I know he's not in the NHL and I know there is reason for that, but whether it's Zherdev or not, my opinion stands that we do not have enough talent up front. We've got some nice pieces there in the form of complimentary scorers and role players, but for these guys to put the puck in the net consistently enough for this team to win, i'm not so sure. Last night was a good example. There were plenty of times we had the Rangers pinned in their own zone, but we couldn't finish. Time after time, opportunity after opportunity, and zero goals to show for it.
I definitely agree though we're easy to play against down low, which is my main reasoning for wanting Byfuglien at forward. We don't have a forward on the roster who can do what he can down low physically. His size and strength, skating ability, etc. would be a blessing to this team and it's play down low in the offensive zone. But, I think the wishing and hoping of Byfuglien to forward is a lost cause, unfortunately.
This is starting to be very concerning to me. If this is true and the comments he made that the coaches don't want him down low they want him at the point. I'd start shopping him now. You won't win with players that think they decide how to play or where they'll play.
If was Noel I'd give him the choice start playing D at an NHL level and playing like your told or your going up front. I'd take no crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy
I definitely agree though we're easy to play against down low, which is my main reasoning for wanting Byfuglien at forward. We don't have a forward on the roster who can do what he can down low physically. His size and strength, skating ability, etc. would be a blessing to this team and it's play down low in the offensive zone. But, I think the wishing and hoping of Byfuglien to forward is a lost cause, unfortunately.
Agreed.
He is not a reliable defenseman in any zone and is being rewarded with top line minutes and alternate captain status (although I believe the last one is simply carry over from last year). Yet he doesn't seem willing to do what is needed to make this team better which is putting him where he can be an asset and not a liability. The strong bold statement of "I'll never be a forward again" is almost hostile, like it would be such an insult to place him anywhere else and that's not the type of team guy I want.
He seems more than willing to play like a forward while simultaneously neglecting his primary role of stopping the opposition in our zone and yet it's almost insulting to ask Buff if he would ever consider being put in that role again.
I have no issue with Byfuglien playing as a defenseman (assuming the coaches are the ones to decide it), but I don't want him playing the point on the PP. I want him get in the goalie's face like he did with Luongo.
I'd rather have Bogosian take the shot on the 1st unit PP and eventually Postma take the shot on the 2nd unit PP.
I won't even comment on the Enstrom hate. How people can't see what he does out there is beyond me. He plays against the oppositions best players, plays a TONNE, and is a beast. His offensive game isn't there yet but if he was out of the line up, you would know what hurt is.
Although I was joking around with moving wingers, I am in the camp of leave Buff alone.
Last night was probably one of his bigger 'stay at home' moments.
The main reason I feel this way is I really believe he is piloting the power plays most effectively right now.
He has a very hard shot, and isn't afraid to pull the trigger. Yes, he still gets caught pinching but it's getting better.
I fear to think of how much worse our power play would get without him piloting it. He has great reach, a good shot, and it's hard enough to make people have a second thought on blocking it.
I just don't like it when Buff is doing a little too much high in the play, but I really don't want to see him play offence.
I guess it's a moot point anyway seeing that it's never going to happen.
Although I was joking around with moving wingers, I am in the camp of leave Buff alone.
Last night was probably one of his bigger 'stay at home' moments.
The main reason I feel this way is I really believe he is piloting the power plays most effectively right now.
He has a very hard shot, and isn't afraid to pull the trigger. Yes, he still gets caught pinching but it's getting better.
I fear to think of how much worse our power play would get without him piloting it. He has great reach, a good shot, and it's hard enough to make people have a second thought on blocking it.
I just don't like it when Buff is doing a little too much high in the play, but I really don't want to see him play offence.
I guess it's a moot point anyway seeing that it's never going to happen.
Quite frankly if Byfuglien is unwilling to become a defensively responsible Dman then he should be traded. All the "Buff to forward" talk is dependent on him remaining a liability at the back end, which at the moment he is consistently game in, game out.
If you take away the first three games, Jets are now playing .500 hockey for the last 5, with signs of being able to do better. That's not bad. Hopefully they'll be able to stay close to .500 on the road. They've done relatively well against some good teams so far. Their worst games have mostly been against the worst teams they've faced. All of this convinces me to be optimistic.
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