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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Higher Amount of Brand Identity Changes in Hockey

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Old
10-26-2011, 04:20 PM
  #26
Tinalera
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Gawd no. That'd cost Jerry Reinsdorf a packet in design fee's, plates, new business cards, letterhead...
Yea, those letter heads can be an incredible sunk cost



Actually, thinking of JR and Yotes, I COULD see with new ownership wanting a clean slate, doing a total redo (again) of the Yotes logo and Jersey to "start fresh" on things.

I think they should go back to the "Picasso" Yote, though without the checkered sleeves (mind you they could grab a gravy advertisement from "Checkers" fast food chain )

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10-26-2011, 04:32 PM
  #27
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I'm like most fans of the classiest popular team-game in the world HOCKEY huge believer in tradition.

I don't want to ever see a new Wings logo (small updates ok but not more). Especially for original 6 teams their colors, logos are how people have been identifying them for decades now.

Sure rebranding gets you immediate $ but you also risk losing longtime fans and therefore money in the long run. Just imagine drw going from the wingedwheel to something like an octopus logo, just not the same although cool.

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10-26-2011, 04:46 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Actually, thinking of JR and Yotes, I COULD see with new ownership wanting a clean slate, doing a total redo (again) of the Yotes logo and Jersey to "start fresh" on things.
Depends on whether or not Jerry could find a wholesaler with a good supply of old stock new stock of the original Coyotes jerseys, pants & socks I suppose. Mebbe put Kyle Turris & the scratches to work selling popcorn in the stands. Graduate of the Eddie Shore School of Cheap that one, but he'll do in a pinch, making the Indian ride the Buffalo on every nickle that passes through his fingers.

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10-26-2011, 04:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Grudy0 View Post
Philadelphia Flyers: no real tweaks for forty-plus years. Same owner.
Calgary Flames: no real tweaks for thirty-plus year, other than to add black to the color scheme. Same basic ownership group until recently (?) as I don't know the status of Hotchkiss' shares.
I follow your point about ownership and changes in brand, but I don't know if these two are the best examples.

Remember, the Flyers DID have that flirtation with the sweatpants look back in the mid- to late-'80s (you may not consider that a tweak. I do, though).

And I think the Flames' unis look dramatically different with the change from yellow to black in the color scheme, plus the changes with a few outlines here and there (and change in fonts on the numbers).

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10-26-2011, 05:24 PM
  #30
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Remember, the Flyers DID have that flirtation with the sweatpants look back in the mid- to late-'80s (you may not consider that a tweak. I do, though).
Your referring to Cooperall's, the one piece pant system that was heralded as being a replacement to the pants/socks combo. They were abandoned as they didnt breathe, were uncomfortable. That was more an equipment innovation than a "look" per se'. Traditionalists as well had a problem with it. Sort of like watching the Green Hornet & Kato dashing around below the speed limit in a Robbins Egg Blue Kia Sorrento instead of that stunning Emerald Green/Midnight Black Suicide Lincoln huh?...

doesnt work for me either. Yepp. Gotta have yer Hot. Rod. Lincoln.

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10-26-2011, 05:28 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by AllAbout813 View Post
When I look at football I can hardly pinpoint one drastic logo or color change (the falcons logo tweak being the most recent?).
Actually there have been MANY changes in the past decade to NFL logo's (and tons more when you consider NFL history). Here's a chart to show you. You don't think there have been changes, but it's a matter of perception:


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Old
10-26-2011, 05:33 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Yea, those letter heads can be an incredible sunk cost



Actually, thinking of JR and Yotes, I COULD see with new ownership wanting a clean slate, doing a total redo (again) of the Yotes logo and Jersey to "start fresh" on things.

I think they should go back to the "Picasso" Yote, though without the checkered sleeves (mind you they could grab a gravy advertisement from "Checkers" fast food chain )
The "checkered" trim was one was of the best parts of the uni.

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10-26-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
And what modernization MLB has tried ...




La Russa: "Hey, I told you to warm up Motte."
Lilliquist: "You want me to buy you a yacht?"
La Russa: "Yes, that's right, warm up Motte."
Lilliquist: "Where am I going to come up with that kind of money?"
La Russa: "I don't think it's funny at all. Warm up Motte."
Lilliquist: "You see a swam of dots?"
La Russa: "Yes."
Lilliquist: "Guess what?"
La Russa: "Hey, man, there's a game going on here. Just do it, all right? We've got a game to win.
Lilliquist (to Lance Lynn): "Hey, start warming up."

credit to: http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/201...en-phones.html

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10-26-2011, 05:41 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
The "checkered" trim was one was of the best parts of the uni.
I thought the checkered trim may have been a much for my personal taste-but that just my own taste. They were certainly were unique, no question!

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10-26-2011, 05:43 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Depends on whether or not Jerry could find a wholesaler with a good supply of old stock new stock of the original Coyotes jerseys, pants & socks I suppose. Mebbe put Kyle Turris & the scratches to work selling popcorn in the stands. Graduate of the Eddie Shore School of Cheap that one, but he'll do in a pinch, making the Indian ride the Buffalo on every nickle that passes through his fingers.
Better be careful, Jerry or someone he knows might read these forums and say "hmmmm"

Just remember that folks when you see Turris selling popcorn next game, you know where the suggestion originated

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10-26-2011, 06:14 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Your referring to Cooperall's, the one piece pant system that was heralded as being a replacement to the pants/socks combo. They were abandoned as they didnt breathe, were uncomfortable. That was more an equipment innovation than a "look" per se'. Traditionalists as well had a problem with it. Sort of like watching the Green Hornet & Kato dashing around below the speed limit in a Robbins Egg Blue Kia Sorrento instead of that stunning Emerald Green/Midnight Black Suicide Lincoln huh?...

doesnt work for me either. Yepp. Gotta have yer Hot. Rod. Lincoln.
Yeah, the Cooperalls were what I was referring to. If memory serves, only the Flyers and Hartford Whalers tried them out, no?

As to the rest, I'm assuming you're referring to the movie serial (or even the radio show?) Black Beauty. Since I've had the most exposure to the TV series, I'm most familiar with the '66 Chrysler Imperial. Pretty bad-ass car, too. Oh, and your original point still stands.

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10-26-2011, 06:42 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by GreenHornet View Post
Yeah, the Cooperalls were what I was referring to. If memory serves, only the Flyers and Hartford Whalers tried them out, no?
Yep. Cooperalls', and I believe your right about Hartford as well as a number of other teams trying them out (the Leafs, most Canadian Major Junior leagues etc) over a coupla seasons. More an equipment innovation than "look" as I said. Tried them myself in a beer league. The Drunken Pirates we were called. Everytime we scored an "Arrr ARRRRRR" from the bench. Wearing those things was like being Mummified; Saran Wrapped & forced to run a Marathon. Not pleasant. We went back to playing "Skins"...

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10-27-2011, 03:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Eaglepride View Post
I'm like most fans of the classiest popular team-game in the world HOCKEY huge believer in tradition.

I don't want to ever see a new Wings logo (small updates ok but not more). Especially for original 6 teams their colors, logos are how people have been identifying them for decades now.

Sure rebranding gets you immediate $ but you also risk losing longtime fans and therefore money in the long run. Just imagine drw going from the wingedwheel to something like an octopus logo, just not the same although cool.
Not quite was I was going for, necessarily. It's possible to do an on-ice overhaul without changing the logo, color scheme, or in any destroying "tradition". For example, these pictures are of Adirondack Red Wings jerseys. Would it not be possible for Detroit to do something like this without people getting in an uproar?

I think too many teams paint themselves into a corner with "tradition", essentially being no different than other teams that implicity say that "we don't want to offend our fans, other fans, or the league by having something that doesn't look 'traditional'."



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Old
10-27-2011, 03:54 PM
  #39
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MLB just basically goes with "road team decides what they alone wear". Since they're always going to wear gray, the home team can elect to wear white or an alternate, and I don't think they need the approval of the road team.

Don't forget that MLB is the same league that took years before banning the practice of writing other players' numbers on hats (20 years after Jim McMahon's headbands), and also felt the need to prevent teams from wearing special hats on the 10th anniversary of September 11th. The incredible backwardness of MLB in so many ways is exactly why it's lost so much ground to the NFL, and the people who are trying to figure out why are the same people who are largely responsible for the mess in the first place. Why? "Tradition!" "This might offend or upset our fans!" "We are paralyzed by inaction unless a focus group tells us it's okay!"
I agree MLB is backwards in many, many ways. But the topic is branding, particularly as it has to do with the visual elements of the game. MLB franchises as a whole have done a horrendous job in the past decade of managing their visual brand, to the point that sometimes it's literally difficult to tell which teams are playing.

In a sense, the swarm of throwback jerseys and alternates is just another case of MLB missing the point. The throwbacks are going to appeal ONLY to hardcore fans while simply confusing casual fans, and the alternates are a disgrace to hardcore fans and of marginal interest to casual fans. As a whole, there really doesn't seem to be a strategy at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
Actually there have been MANY changes in the past decade to NFL logo's (and tons more when you consider NFL history). Here's a chart to show you. You don't think there have been changes, but it's a matter of perception:

Looking at the past decade on that chart, the only changes have been very small, contemporary tweaks to very old logos (Cards, Falcons, Browns, Lions, Patriots, Seahawks and Rams) which have the overall effect of things getting marginally sleeker but nobody really changing anything. Only the Bengals have actually replaced their logo, by dropping that silly tiger head in favor of a more traditional "B".

In fact, looking at the league since 1980 the only other logos that have been substantially changed without a relocation taking place were Denver, Philadelphia and Tampa, all three making basically the same kind of changes at the exact same time. By any standard, the NFL has been extremely conservative on its visual branding and it has paid off big time.

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10-28-2011, 12:46 PM
  #40
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During the Thrashers brief tenure in Atlanta, they sported 6 different jerseys in 10 years. That's just whacked merchandising that only cares about the cash.

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10-28-2011, 02:24 PM
  #41
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During the Thrashers brief tenure in Atlanta, they sported 6 different jerseys in 10 years. That's just whacked merchandising that only cares about the cash.
This is true only if you ignore the variable that was the 2007 leaguewide redesign. The Thrashers had a navy and a white jersey originally, then the powder blue alternate. After the redesign, the white was altered slightly and the powder blue became the primary; the cranberry was then added as an alternate.

If you want to look at a money grab, look at Anaheim, which had FOUR different alternates in their first 10 years. Those were the Wild Wing (one year), white with dazzle cloth shoulders (three years), teal with dazzle cloth shoulders (two years), and black with purple baseball script.

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10-28-2011, 02:51 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post


La Russa: "Hey, I told you to warm up Motte."
Lilliquist: "You want me to buy you a yacht?"
La Russa: "Yes, that's right, warm up Motte."
Lilliquist: "Where am I going to come up with that kind of money?"
La Russa: "I don't think it's funny at all. Warm up Motte."
Lilliquist: "You see a swam of dots?"
La Russa: "Yes."
Lilliquist: "Guess what?"
La Russa: "Hey, man, there's a game going on here. Just do it, all right? We've got a game to win.
Lilliquist (to Lance Lynn): "Hey, start warming up."

credit to: http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/201...en-phones.html
Somewhat off topic but this reminds me of a story I just read in a book about baseball's "code." Billy Martin was a famed sign stealer but at the same time he was notoriously afraid of other teams stealing his signs. So when he managed the Rangers in the '70s he tried to use a system where he would relay baserunning/batting instructions via a microphone and transmitter. His base coaches, meanwhile would have a receiver and an earpiece to hear their instructions. One game the Rangers played the Red Sox and Martin gave the order for a suicide squeeze. Problem was third base coach Frank Lucchesi couldn't make out the transmission. Martin ordered louder "Suicide squeeze!" Lucchesi still couldn't understand. Martin screamed into the microphone "Suicide squeeze!" Still no comprehension from Lucchesi. At that point, Red Sox pitcher Luis Tiant stepped off the mound and called to Lucchesi "Hey Frank, Billy said he wants the suicide squeeze." IIRC, that was the last game that Martin used his transmitter system.

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10-28-2011, 03:19 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by garnetpalmetto View Post
Somewhat off topic but this reminds me of a story I just read in a book about baseball's "code." Billy Martin was a famed sign stealer but at the same time he was notoriously afraid of other teams stealing his signs. So when he managed the Rangers in the '70s he tried to use a system where he would relay baserunning/batting instructions via a microphone and transmitter. His base coaches, meanwhile would have a receiver and an earpiece to hear their instructions. One game the Rangers played the Red Sox and Martin gave the order for a suicide squeeze. Problem was third base coach Frank Lucchesi couldn't make out the transmission. Martin ordered louder "Suicide squeeze!" Lucchesi still couldn't understand. Martin screamed into the microphone "Suicide squeeze!" Still no comprehension from Lucchesi. At that point, Red Sox pitcher Luis Tiant stepped off the mound and called to Lucchesi "Hey Frank, Billy said he wants the suicide squeeze." IIRC, that was the last game that Martin used his transmitter system.
It was doomed to failure from the start, because it contained two incompatible elements....technology (the transmitter) and old people (Frank Lucchesi).

I think it was Moe Drabowsky who figured out the phone codes for the other team's bullpen in every park, so he was known to make well-timed calls from his bullpen to the other one to order a reliever to start warming up, or sit a needed reliever who had legitimately started warming up. Then again, considering the loons that the bullpen attracts, it could have been any of about 50 guys besides Drabowsky.

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