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A true 1st line scorer to NSH. (No WEBER and SUTER)

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Old
10-27-2011, 11:49 AM
  #251
Lex Lupul
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lol, I love these "but every one of our prospects are untouchable" threads. News to every team: your players aren't untouchable. Remember all the Flyers fans who got mad at Carter proposals, and all the Kings fans who couldn't stand Schenn proposals? Although, granted, Schenn probably wasn't going to Toronto for Kadri, Bozak, and Gunnarsson.

If the Predators get a legit first line scorer, they'll probably move Ellis.

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Old
10-27-2011, 12:01 PM
  #252
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Bring over Radulov.

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Old
10-27-2011, 12:29 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Bring over Radulov.
Radulov isn't coming back to play for the salary of his ELC. The only way he comes back is if he gets a raise. First Nashville would have to void his current contract which would make Radulov a RFA who could then accept an offer sheet from another team. Second, Radulov has played in an overseas league (without being on loan from his NHL team) since the start of the NHL season. That's means even if Nashville signed him to a new contract he would have to pass through waivers before he could play in the NHL this season. Think about the Svatos and Nabokov situations last season.

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Old
10-27-2011, 12:34 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by secretsquirrel View Post
Radulov isn't coming back to play for the salary of his ELC. The only way he comes back is if he gets a raise. First Nashville would have to void his current contract which would make Radulov a RFA who could then accept an offer sheet from another team. Second, Radulov has played in an overseas league (without being on loan from his NHL team) since the start of the NHL season. That's means even if Nashville signed him to a new contract he would have to pass through waivers before he could play in the NHL this season. Think about the Svatos and Nabokov situations last season.
If Radulov is coming back he'll have to play for the Predators while on his ELC, simple as that. We have talked to him this past July, and when asked about a trade he said he'd rather stay a predator. The only way he gets traded is if someone offers something stupid for him.

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10-27-2011, 12:34 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Myers + Stafford + 2nd for Weber?
lol overpayment galore from buffalo.. if you're starting point is myers than you barely have to add anythign to get weber..

myers will turn into weber or an almost weber after a couple years of seasoning... keep your 30 goal scorer in stafford and maybe draft your own weber with that second rounder

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10-27-2011, 12:37 PM
  #256
Fehr Time*
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The only way Nashville gets a top end scorer is by moving Suter or Weber.

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10-27-2011, 01:02 PM
  #257
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I posted a thread the other day that generally got good responses along the lines of Suter+something small for Parise

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10-27-2011, 01:18 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
What??

Hemsky 30 to 40 goals?????????

Wowzers! Hemsky will be lucky to play 30 to 40 games, never mind score 30 to 40 goals... how did you come to this conclusion?


That's why I said if(a big if)he stays healthy.Did you not read the part of my post saying that?? You even bolded it!! lol

As for the rest of it,imo he is talented enough to pot 30+,and I came to this concluson by watching him play(on the rare occasions he actually played that is ).I saw enough speed,skill and shooting ability to think that if this guy could stay healthy for a full season,he could hit the 30 mark.

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10-27-2011, 01:39 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
That's why I said if(a big if)he stays healthy.Did you not read the part of my post saying that?? You even bolded it!! lol

As for the rest of it,imo he is talented enough to pot 30+,and I came to this concluson by watching him play(on the rare occasions he actually played that is ).I saw enough speed,skill and shooting ability to think that if this guy could stay healthy for a full season,he could hit the 30 mark.
1) When was the last time he was healthy?

2) Hemsky never scored 30 EVEN when he was healthy, so what makes you think he can score 30 to 40?? I'd love an explanation as to what formula you used to come to this conclusion.

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Old
10-27-2011, 01:42 PM
  #260
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The Ranger that obviously fits the bill is Gaborik, but NYR need more, not less finishers, so he isn't going anywhere unless maybe Shea Weber or Suter involved, and I might want to negotiate w/sign + trade first if you change your mind and include them.

We have a guy who is a reasonable boom/bust risk and while more seasoning is preferable, might be able to handle some NHL minutes now. He is Christian Thomas. There is a thought he will never compete, despite that he already demonstrates real speed and a great shot, because of his frame. The flip side to that is he only needs add 15-20 lbs of muscle to his thin frame.

Thomas is not untouchable like Kreider but we are not giving him away for nothing.
If you throw in the rights to Radulov, and add a good enough pick, that might work.
{Let's be honest, this is a freebie throw in 'cause we're not certain the guy will come back to NHL, and if he does, what kind of $$$ will he eventually if not immediately require, etc. --- his playing out an ELC is nice, but he may not show up under such conditions, and he does have the leverage to play elsewhere.}

Rad rights +
either Preds 2nd 2012
OR
or Preds 1st 2012 + NY adds Ranger's 2nd 2012

for Thomas

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Old
10-27-2011, 02:22 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
The Ranger that obviously fits the bill is Gaborik, but NYR need more, not less finishers, so he isn't going anywhere unless maybe Shea Weber or Suter involved, and I might want to negotiate w/sign + trade first if you change your mind and include them.

We have a guy who is a reasonable boom/bust risk and while more seasoning is preferable, might be able to handle some NHL minutes now. He is Christian Thomas. There is a thought he will never compete, despite that he already demonstrates real speed and a great shot, because of his frame. The flip side to that is he only needs add 15-20 lbs of muscle to his thin frame.

Thomas is not untouchable like Kreider but we are not giving him away for nothing.
If you throw in the rights to Radulov, and add a good enough pick, that might work.
{Let's be honest, this is a freebie throw in 'cause we're not certain the guy will come back to NHL, and if he does, what kind of $$$ will he eventually if not immediately require, etc. --- his playing out an ELC is nice, but he may not show up under such conditions, and he does have the leverage to play elsewhere.}

Rad rights +
either Preds 2nd 2012
OR
or Preds 1st 2012 + NY adds Ranger's 2nd 2012

for Thomas
What on earth makes you think that guy is worth that? The ONLY way any team would trade for the rights to Radulov would be with the express consent of the player and knowing that he fully intends to come back to the NHL. Otherwise why bother? Your boy Kreider may be worth that package (maybe) but little Christian Hanson isn't. That makes zero sense from a Preds POV. The guy is still in junior for godsakes and you make it sound like he's a callup away from the show.

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Old
10-27-2011, 02:24 PM
  #262
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Gomez for Budish

Ty!

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Old
10-27-2011, 02:44 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretsquirrel View Post
Radulov isn't coming back to play for the salary of his ELC. The only way he comes back is if he gets a raise. First Nashville would have to void his current contract which would make Radulov a RFA who could then accept an offer sheet from another team. Second, Radulov has played in an overseas league (without being on loan from his NHL team) since the start of the NHL season. That's means even if Nashville signed him to a new contract he would have to pass through waivers before he could play in the NHL this season. Think about the Svatos and Nabokov situations last season.
As far as I know, since Radulov is technically still under contract with Nashville he would not have to clear waiver to return even though the season has begun. The only negative effect of bringing Radulov back this season is that he would likely wait until the end of the KHL season, meaning that his ELC (read: cheap) year would be shortened dramatically. Of course, I still bring him back if he is interested and the Preds are looking good for the play offs.

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Old
10-27-2011, 02:57 PM
  #264
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
What on earth makes you think that guy is worth that? The ONLY way any team would trade for the rights to Radulov would be with the express consent of the player and knowing that he fully intends to come back to the NHL. Otherwise why bother? Your boy Kreider may be worth that package (maybe) but little Christian Hanson isn't. That makes zero sense from a Preds POV. The guy is still in junior for godsakes and you make it sound like he's a callup away from the show.
Besides the untouchable Kreider, Christian Thomas is the closest who might fit the bill. If Thomas were everything Kreider is now, he too would be untouchable, or command a whole lot more.

I'm not sure I give you Thomas for a second straight up.
He has upside. I want more. A first is probably too much, so he is likely part of a deal.

If you disagree, fine, but that is his current value IMO. He has got a great shot and real speed, reportedly. Size may or may not be an issue, less likely to be so after a year plus of further bulking up.

Yeah Radulov, we see the potential plus.
But your still going to have to pay him to get him to produce.
And even then, will he be a prima donna, or what?

So given Radulov is a potential throw in, and I'm only taking a second (or adding + taking your first), I don't consider it too much.

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10-27-2011, 03:00 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
As far as I know, since Radulov is technically still under contract with Nashville he would not have to clear waiver to return even though the season has begun. The only negative effect of bringing Radulov back this season is that he would likely wait until the end of the KHL season, meaning that his ELC (read: cheap) year would be shortened dramatically. Of course, I still bring him back if he is interested and the Preds are looking good for the play offs.
But can't whoever owns his rights just give him a new contract?
Preferably one that is as bonus laced as possible to encourage performance?

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10-27-2011, 03:02 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
But can't whoever owns his rights just give him a new contract?
Preferably one that is as bonus laced as possible to encourage performance?
Uh, why would we want to? He's making less then a million when he comes back and is as close to a lock for 30 goals as you can get. We'll wait until he comes back.

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10-27-2011, 03:08 PM
  #267
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Uh, why would we want to? He's making less then a million when he comes back and is as close to a lock for 30 goals as you can get. We'll wait until he comes back.
Read: entire reason for this post. Legit first line scorer/playmaker, and you don't have to worry about teams seeking your "untouchables." Nashville's stand on principle is about the dumbest one I have seen in the NHL in years. Like Teddy KGB said: pay the man his money. Otherwise, keep waiting.

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10-27-2011, 03:10 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
But can't whoever owns his rights just give him a new contract?
Preferably one that is as bonus laced as possible to encourage performance?
There won't be performance bonuses in Radulov's next contract. There can't be according to the CBA -- the only exceptions are entry-level contracts and 1-year 35+ contracts.

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10-27-2011, 03:47 PM
  #269
bernmeister
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There won't be performance bonuses in Radulov's next contract. There can't be according to the CBA -- the only exceptions are entry-level contracts and 1-year 35+ contracts.
You are correct sir. Hence my use of "as possible" in case this guy doesn't return til after the next CBA.

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10-27-2011, 03:48 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Karlsson,Spezza
for
Weber,Blum,Hornqvist and your 1st next season.
Sounds fair for both sides.
...no it doesn't.

Weber >> Spezza (top 5 defenseman leaguewide, arguably top 2/3, and a mostly one-dimensional centre who's closer to top 15-20)

Blum/Hornvist/1st > Karlsson (PMD who's not defensively liable, 30 goal scorer at age 21 for NASHVILLES defensive system, and a 1st for a better PMD who's significantly worse defensively)

Maybe Weber ~ Spezza + 1st
Blum/Hornqvist ~ Karlsson

So

Weber/Blum/Hornqvist for Spezza/Karlsson/1st

Granted, that 1st is worth a LOT more than Nashvilles, so you could change it for a solid prospect. Like Puempel.

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10-27-2011, 03:49 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
As far as I know, since Radulov is technically still under contract with Nashville he would not have to clear waiver to return even though the season has begun. The only negative effect of bringing Radulov back this season is that he would likely wait until the end of the KHL season, meaning that his ELC (read: cheap) year would be shortened dramatically. Of course, I still bring him back if he is interested and the Preds are looking good for the play offs.
My post was addressing the person who suggested that Nashville bring over Radulov right now. My point to him was that Radulov isn't going to leave the KHL right now to play for his ELC salary. The only was to entice him over at this point of the season would be to give him more money. That would require voiding the current contract, avoiding offer sheets, signing a new contract, and then passing through waivers. It doesn't make sense for Nashville to do that.

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10-27-2011, 03:49 PM
  #272
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i dunno. take a chance on turris lol

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Old
10-27-2011, 03:54 PM
  #273
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...no it doesn't.

Weber >> Spezza (top 5 defenseman leaguewide, arguably top 2/3, and a mostly one-dimensional centre who's closer to top 15-20)

Blum/Hornvist/1st > Karlsson (PMD who's not defensively liable, 30 goal scorer at age 21 for NASHVILLES defensive system, and a 1st for a better PMD who's significantly worse defensively)

Maybe Weber ~ Spezza + 1st
Blum/Hornqvist ~ Karlsson

So

Weber/Blum/Hornqvist for Spezza/Karlsson/1st

Granted, that 1st is worth a LOT more than Nashvilles, so you could change it for a solid prospect. Like Puempel.
If that happened, I'd be cheering so hard against the Sens... Fail for Nail, baby!

Anyways, I don't think Nashville is interested in Karlsson... and I say that in a way that every team would want Karlsson, but he might not be addressing the teams' most immediate needs.

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Old
10-27-2011, 03:58 PM
  #274
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Uh, why would we want to? He's making less then a million when he comes back and is as close to a lock for 30 goals as you can get. We'll wait until he comes back.

This is why. Because
1 if you don't, he most likely will not come back at all, period.
2 if you won't, which is fine, any team taking him trade has to put that into the total picture, not assume they will get first class production from him at ELC terms.
3 We can't assume he will get 30. He could be like he never lost a step. He could be in his prime and hit 40. But he could be off, so < 30.
4 Plus, this guy is not certain to be a picnic in the clubhouse. Will he fit? Fit well? or not?
5 So given all these real factors actually or potentially discounts some of his value, you certainly don't have to pay him and can sit on him till hell freezes over; but if you want to get something for him, his value has to be accurately discounted.

It's an inexact science, but one option might be to just make him a throw in. Saves you the opportunity cost of surrendering other assets in a deal.

Whether or not you think Christian Thomas for a 2nd + the rights is good value is a fair question. Maybe Rangers add. Maybe Preds take away some. It's open to discussion.

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Old
10-27-2011, 04:00 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretsquirrel View Post
My post was addressing the person who suggested that Nashville bring over Radulov right now. My point to him was that Radulov isn't going to leave the KHL right now to play for his ELC salary. The only was to entice him over at this point of the season would be to give him more money. That would require voiding the current contract, avoiding offer sheets, signing a new contract, and then passing through waivers. It doesn't make sense for Nashville to do that.
Fair enough. I took your two points as separate. My mistake.

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