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Marco van Basten or Ronaldo ?

View Poll Results: Marco van Basten or Ronaldo ?
Marco van Basten 23 63.89%
Ronaldo 13 36.11%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-03-2004, 04:12 AM
  #1
Frolov 6'3
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Marco van Basten or Ronaldo ?

I dreamed about this question last night and now I need answers.

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09-03-2004, 04:25 AM
  #2
Ajacied
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Definitely Marco van Basten for me. One of the most complete strikers in the history of soccer. Interesting comparison though..

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09-03-2004, 04:56 AM
  #3
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I've thought many times about this in the past and i've seen a lot of both players.

I know my opinion will probably be unpopular, but that won't change my mind.

I have to make some distinguishes to make my answer clear.
Van Basten was certainly a more complete player: was a much better header, was more of a fighter,..
but if i have/can compare Van Basten in top form with Ronaldo in top form i would definitely choose Ronaldo.
Ronaldo in 97 and 98 (until,say,April 98) with Barcelona and Inter was just unbelievable, the more decisive player i've ever seen. And he was just 21,22 years old. He didn't need the support of the team behind him as much as Van Basten (or as every other player),he was devastating even when his whole team was thinking only about defense and was just throwing away the ball..
On the other hand, if i had to consider Ronaldo during and after '98 World Cup (and after that devastating injury) then i would choose Van Basten.

so, to make a summary:

97/98 Ronaldo >>>> 21/22yrs old V.Basten
97/98 Ronaldo >> 25yrs old V.Basten
Van Basten >> Ronaldo's shadow (after April 98)

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09-03-2004, 05:13 AM
  #4
rabi_sultan
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i hope your joking?
van Basten by miles, Ronaldo doesn't even come close.

van Basten was capable of scoring from anywhere in ANY fashion, can't see Ronaldo do that except try dribble through defenders.

In terms of Brazil, Barca and Inter how the heck was Ronaldo a one man team? did you see those squads they were racked with talent!

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09-03-2004, 05:20 AM
  #5
Ajacied
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
In terms of Brazil, Barca and Inter how the heck was Ronaldo a one man team? did you see those squads they were racked with talent!
It's not like van Basten played on mediocre teams though. AC Milan was widely known as one of the best teams at the time, before that he enjoyed succeses with a talented Ajax team and played for Holland featuring names such as Koeman, Gullit, Rijkaard, and many more.

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09-03-2004, 06:33 AM
  #6
Evilo
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Ronaldo in his prime was one of the most impressive players ever. Van Basten is quite near that list as well.
I'd give Ronaldo the edge, but not by far.
Simply because there was a time where no team could stop Ronaldo

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09-03-2004, 07:00 AM
  #7
JVR
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Marco Van Bastenn

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09-03-2004, 07:24 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Ronaldo in his prime was one of the most impressive players ever. Van Basten is quite near that list as well.
I'd give Ronaldo the edge, but not by far.
Simply because there was a time where no team could stop Ronaldo

It doesn't happen so frequently that we completely agree, so i have to make the most of it when it occurs!:

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09-03-2004, 07:54 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
In terms of Brazil, Barca and Inter how the heck was Ronaldo a one man team? did you see those squads they were racked with talent!
i said:
"He didn't need the support of the team behind him as much as Van Basten (or as every other player),he was devastating EVEN WHEN his whole team was thinking only about defense and was just throwing away the ball.."
as you should be able to see, i've not talked about Ronaldo as a one man team or said his teams were lacking talent.

Anyway, his first season with Inter proved WHAT i said above. Inter that year was coached by Simoni. He is a defense first coach and in every game against good teams Inter most used system was to play a blocked defense (with the defenders they had at the time it was almost necessary; guys like Galante, appreciated by Simoni, would have sucked big time playing a more open style..) and just throw ahead balls in the room with Ronaldo anyhow arriving always first on the ball, dribbling some opponents to gain fouls or even score.
At least with Inter, he received poor assistance by the team.

Van Basten with Milan played on a outstanding and offensively oriented team.
But i want to make clear that me, as everyone else, think Marco has been an outstanding player.

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09-03-2004, 08:50 AM
  #10
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Yeah that was my first thought as well.. Ronaldo at his peak seemed unstoppable. But he hasnt played like that in years and it didnt last very long. So I voted for Marco Van Basten.. although maybe Im being unfair here if Van Basten didnt have a particularly long reign at the top either ?? I was only a kid then.

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09-03-2004, 09:17 AM
  #11
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I honestly can't decide.

With two players so good you usually have to take their entire career into account, but since both have had theirs cut short by injury this is impossible.

I've not seen much of Marco in his prime, but yet I think he is the all round better player than Ronaldo: passing, heading, general technical ability (yes you read that right) were all in favour of Marco.
Ronaldo had more pure pace, raw strenght and goalscoring power though.

But still, I'm not voting

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09-03-2004, 10:20 AM
  #12
Ajacied
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Not to ruin this thread, but this thread reminded me of another comparison (an entirely Dutch one mind you) I've had in the back of my mind for quite some time now, they aren't very simular or anything, just two strikers, one a goal getter, one a playmaker that have been immensly important for whichever team they were playing for. The matchup is; Dennis Bergkamp or Ruud Gullit.

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09-03-2004, 11:16 AM
  #13
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Ruud Gullit for me. I think because he succeeded so spectacularly in Italy whereas Bergkamp failed. Bergkamp is a superb player .. he just didnt quite cut it in the elite stratosphere like Gullit did.

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09-03-2004, 11:43 AM
  #14
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Bergkamp for me.
He got better every year. He never needed to act like a star to be one.

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09-03-2004, 11:46 AM
  #15
Frolov 6'3
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Dennis Bergkamp or Ruud Gullit, tough call.

I would say Bergkamp was more important to the Dutch team than Ruud Gullit. Bergkamp is sort of a playmaker while Ruud Gullit was the power forward, to speak in hockey terms. Ruud Gullit was much more of a leader and has led teams to the victory. Bergkamp has a better technique while Gullit was a better header.

If you would ask this question to all the soccer fans in the world then I think most of them would say Gullit.

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09-03-2004, 12:26 PM
  #16
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Two other reasons to which why i would rank van Basten ahead of Ronaldo

-better finisher
-in the time when van Basten played a hack to the back of the legs never resulted in an automatic red card

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09-03-2004, 01:06 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
-in the time when van Basten played a hack to the back of the legs never resulted in an automatic red card
So true.. And Marco was a serious victim because of it. I haven't seen a player that got defended so agressively as Marco van Basten. Hence why he had to retire at the age of what? 29/30?

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09-03-2004, 05:27 PM
  #18
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Van Basten would be my choice, but it's very very close. They're like the 15th and 16th greatest players of all time, or thereabouts IMO.

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09-03-2004, 06:18 PM
  #19
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no i wouldnt even put Ronaldo in the top 20.

I'm sorry i don't care what anyone says in todays game and since about 1996 defenders really haven't lunged in or grabbed shirts the way they used to do it. Why do people complain about the shirt tugging now is because all the other rough stuff has gone out of the game. Yes the game has now become such that you have to be an athelete but you put a Maradona or Cruyff or Platini skilled player into the modern game but with the modern conditioning with the relaxed defending because of the fear of an easy red card and they'll be doing tricks that Ronaldo couldn't even dream about.

Stick Ronaldo back in those days where shirt tugging, reckless tackling, barging were common. Also the changes to the offside trap have also helped immensly don't underrate that either.

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09-03-2004, 07:43 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
i hope your joking?
van Basten by miles, Ronaldo doesn't even come close.
Thank you.

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09-04-2004, 01:26 AM
  #21
Evilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
no i wouldnt even put Ronaldo in the top 20.

I'm sorry i don't care what anyone says in todays game and since about 1996 defenders really haven't lunged in or grabbed shirts the way they used to do it. Why do people complain about the shirt tugging now is because all the other rough stuff has gone out of the game. Yes the game has now become such that you have to be an athelete but you put a Maradona or Cruyff or Platini skilled player into the modern game but with the modern conditioning with the relaxed defending because of the fear of an easy red card and they'll be doing tricks that Ronaldo couldn't even dream about.

Stick Ronaldo back in those days where shirt tugging, reckless tackling, barging were common. Also the changes to the offside trap have also helped immensly don't underrate that either.
You seem to foget today's players are much better athletes, and are much more complete players than the all time greats.
As much as I love Platini and Maradona, they were never great "athletes". They weren't half of Ronaldo physically (of course they didn't take the same products either).
Put Platini or Maradona in today's game, they'd still be decisive with their awareness and skill with the ball, but they wouldn't be physically fit enough to beat today's defensemen.

Because you highly underrate today's defensemen. While the Dmen from the 80s were indeed tough, that was also because they didn't have any solution. In today's football, teams are well prepared tactically to stop the other team's star player and they don't even need to break a leg for that.
As much as I like Beckenbauer, he could not compare to a Maldini any top 10 defenseman in today's game either.

Today's players are MUCH better tactically and physically.

You can pick Van Basten, I don't feel it's a problem, but to say it's not even close, ouch!
Ronaldo revolutionnized the game because for the first time, defensemen were beaten by a single man who was more physical than them, faster and deadly from anywhere on the field.
As much as I like Van Basten, he could never beat a defense by himself especially a defense that had no other goal than to stop him.
Ronaldo was the first prototypical gifted power forward. Since then teams are looking for tall, powerful and technical strikers (Cisse, Drogba...).
Van Basten is more a Shevchenko than a Ronaldo (not that there's anything wrong with that).
But to say it's not even close... well IMO you're not even close to the subject then.

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09-04-2004, 04:33 AM
  #22
Frolov 6'3
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I don't agree with "it's not even close" either but I also think it's not fair to say that you can't compare Beckenbauer with Maldini or any top 10 defenseman in today's game. Of course he didn't have the physic of many players today and that's why you must compare him with defenders of his own era.

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09-04-2004, 06:11 AM
  #23
rabi_sultan
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read my post carefully Evilo i did take conditioning into account.

players have always been able to take on defences and score, what do you think Maradona was? Shevchenko was doing that at the same time as Ronaldo. No Ronaldo hasn't revolutionised anything thats a pipe dream.

What has he revolutionised the ability to dribble through players and score a goal from anywhere on the pitch? A "power forward" i'm sorry but there was a Brazilian forward who played JUST before Ronaldo and if anything he was a "power forward" who was it? Romario.

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09-04-2004, 07:47 AM
  #24
Evilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3
I don't agree with "it's not even close" either but I also think it's not fair to say that you can't compare Beckenbauer with Maldini or any top 10 defenseman in today's game. Of course he didn't have the physic of many players today and that's why you must compare him with defenders of his own era.
Oh I agree, which is why Beckenbauer ranks much, much higher than Maldini on the all time list.
But Rabi's saying that Maradona/Platini and co would dominate in today's football. They simply wouldn't.

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09-04-2004, 07:56 AM
  #25
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That's true obviously, if you took a time machine and put the pele from the WC 1970 in any European top club at the moment he probably wouldn't even crack the starting 11. He probably just wouldn't be able to keep up with the tempo of today's game.

But when someone with the talent and mind of Pele (Maradona/Cruijff/...) was born today and enjoyed the training kids today receive he would still be a totally dominating force.

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