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Will Any of these Nationalities ever Draft Higher?

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Old
10-26-2011, 04:24 PM
  #1
Granlund2Pulkkinen*
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Will Any of these Nationalities ever Draft Higher?

Tough worded question... I apologize... but this is the highest any nationality has ever been drafted..

Austria 5th Overall
Belarus 9th Overall
Canada 1st Overall
Czech Republic 1st Overall
Denmark 8th Overall
Estonia 283rd Overall
Finland 2nd Overall
France 19th Overall
Germany 3rd Overall (1963) otherwise 19th Overall
Hungary 32nd Overall
Israel 67th Overall
Italy 26th Overall
Japan 39th Overall
Kazakhstan 10th Overall
Latvia 30th Overall
Lithuania 15th Overall
Netherlands 104th Overall
Norway 42nd Overall
Poland 65th Overall
Russia 1st Overall
Scotland 195th Overall
Serbia 11th Overall
Slovakia 3rd Overall
Slovenia 11th Overall
South Korea 181st Overall
Spain 110th Overall
Sweden 1st Overall
Switzerland 5th Overall
United Kingdom 53rd Overall
Ukraine 41st Overall
United States 1st Overall

Source for Questions: http://www.eliteprospects.com/nhldraft.php

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Old
10-26-2011, 04:36 PM
  #2
Tony Clifton Leaf
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I'm not sure if someone like Kadri would be considered lebanese in a thread like this, but he was 7th overall and lebanese background.

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10-26-2011, 04:37 PM
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Majik1987
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I can say a definite no to the US, Canada, Sweden, Russia, and Czech Republic. These countries cannot go any higher than they already have.

As for some of the other European countries, I think there could be a chance for them to go higher, especially Finland. I know it is only one spot, but they could go higher. I think Germany, Norway, and Switzerland could, too.

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10-26-2011, 04:37 PM
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Old
10-26-2011, 04:40 PM
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J17 Vs Proclamation
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Pretty easy ....


Austria 5th Overall - Unlikely. Vanek was basically a fluke (cultivated his skills in the US 3 years prior to draft). As a nation probably capable of randomly producing good player from time to time, but highly improbable that anything betters Vanek in the forseeable future.
Belarus 9th Overall - Unlikely. The talent level should actually be improving, but again it takes almost random chance and its close relationship with the KHL means even if the talent exists, the "Russian factor" also exists.
Canada 1st Overall - Obviously yes.
Czech Republic 1st Overall - Difficult to say. Programme is trending downwards and we won't be seeing a #1 calibre player for along time i suspect. But it's possible in 10-15 years perhaps.
Denmark 8th Overall - Possible. Improving nation development wise and had recent 1st round picks. But you need a super talent who is in the right time and the right place. I think one day it's likely, but difficult to project when.
Estonia 283rd Overall - Possible. Just takes one player who developed in European system from an early age. Not likely because the programme is very poor, but it's not impossible. Impossible thing to project.
Finland 2nd Overall - Possible. Barkov in 2013 could go that high, although a long way to go. The development system is improving. It's not something that would ever happen regularly, but it's certainly possible.
France 19th Overall - Unlikely, but possible. Slovenia produced Kopitar, so basically random chance says it could happen. But don't expect it to ever happen.
Germany 3rd Overall (1963) otherwise 19th Overall - 3rd overall? Almost no chance. 19th? I guess, but the system seems to be stagnating, and i wouldn't say its very likely in the mid-term future.
Hungary 32nd Overall - Comes down to random chance. Highly unlikely.
Israel 67th Overall - Almost impossible.
Italy 26th Overall - Almost impossible, but again random chance
Japan 39th Overall - Almost impossible
Kazakhstan 10th Overall - Almost impossible. Programme isn't that strong and would suffer same issue as Belarus, "Russian factor".
Latvia 30th Overall - Highly likely. Should have a 1st round pick in 2012 and other promising youngsters coming up that could have a shot.
Lithuania 15th Overall - Almost no chance. Needs development intwined with KHL and then random chance to happen.
Netherlands 104th Overall - Random chance. Highly unlikely.
Norway 42nd Overall - Possible. Markus Soberg 2013 seems highly promising. I'd be suprised if in ten years this isn't beat.
Poland 65th Overall - Highly unlikely. Random chance.
Russia 1st Overall - Highly likely ; Yakupov
Scotland 195th Overall - Almost impossible. Needs random chance.
Serbia 11th Overall - No chance.
Slovakia 3rd Overall - Highly unlikely. Programme in decline, but even strong heatlhy Slovak system isn't likely to produce players to go this high.
Slovenia 11th Overall - Highly unlikely. Kopitar is "random chance".
South Korea 181st Overall - Highly unlikely. Random chance.
Spain 110th Overall - Almost impossible.
Sweden 1st Overall - Possible.
Switzerland 5th Overall - Unlikely, as #5 is very very high.
United Kingdom 53rd Overall - Almost impossible.
Ukraine 41st Overall - Unlikely, system in ruin. Random chance.
United States 1st Overall - Yes

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Old
10-26-2011, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majik1987 View Post
I can say a definite no to the US, Canada, Sweden, Russia, and Czech Republic.

As for some of the other European countries, I think there could be a chance for them to go higher, especially Finland. I know it is only one spot, but they could go higher. I think Germany, Norway, and Switzerland could, too.
Obviously.


Norway has Søberg
Latvia had Girgensons

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10-26-2011, 04:41 PM
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I see no reason not to trust EliteProspects, though a lot depends on your definition of word "nationality". Is Wojtek Wolski Canadian or Polish?

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10-26-2011, 04:42 PM
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SmellOfVictory
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Depends how long the NHL is around. Give it a few thousand years and all of those countries will end up with a pick drafted first overall at some point.

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10-26-2011, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
I see no reason not to trust EliteProspects, though a lot depends on your definition of word "nationality". Is Wojtek Wolski Canadian or Polish?
He's listed as Canadian.

Go ahead and do your own research then and get back to us.

They have Maxim Birbaer as Israeli even though he was born in Ukraine... Kolzig as German even though he was born in South Africa.

Seems pretty objective to me.

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10-26-2011, 04:49 PM
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That stat for the United Kingdom is misleading.

To say Corey Neilsen is the highest UK draftee, is nonsense. The guy is Canadien. Born in New Brunswick - he got a UK passport in the last year and was named in the GB squad back in March. Being a dual nationality barely counts.

If you're on the "he was born in the UK, so he's from the UK full stop" brigade, then Steve Thomas is the most successful "UK" NHLer, but he wasn't drafted. He got over 400 goals and was born in Stockport.

Of UK-born players to do well in the draft, you've got Owen Nolan (Belfast, NI) who went 1st overall in 1990 but he lived in the UK for less than a year. If you're including him, then yeah, the UK does pretty well in this draft exercise. Honourable mention too, to Byron Dafoe, the ex-Bruins goalie who was also born in the UK but again, moved to NA when he was less than 1 year old. He was drafted the year before Nolan, 35th overall.

But if the true acid test isn't merely being 'born' in the UK but growing up, then there's only two names of interest: Tony Hand (EDM 252nd overall, 1986) who stayed in the UK for his whole career or Colin Shields (PHI 19th overall, 2000) who went down the NCAA route.

Shields was technically the highest but Tony Hand is a legend in UK hockey - the Wayne Gretzky of our era. If you ever get 5 spare minutes, go read up on his story, it's very interesting and full of "what if?" moments...

So to in summary, I think your answer should be 195th for the UK. And yes, I believe it will one day be beaten, but most likely by a talented young UK player who has probably gone to North America to develop at a higher level than is available over here...


Last edited by Le Rosbeef: 10-27-2011 at 04:02 AM.
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10-26-2011, 04:57 PM
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Luca Sbisa is Italian born and he was drafted 19th overall in 2008.

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Old
10-26-2011, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
Luca Sbisa is Italian born and he was drafted 19th overall in 2008.
He has Swiss nationality.

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10-26-2011, 05:10 PM
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john g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
He's listed as Canadian.

Go ahead and do your own research then and get back to us.

They have Maxim Birbaer as Israeli even though he was born in Ukraine... Kolzig as German even though he was born in South Africa.

Seems pretty objective to me.
those specific examples have to do with whom their nationalities truly are or whom they decided to play with later on in their life. Kolzig and Birbraer regardless of their birth country are what they are: Israeli and German. Similar to Tim Erixon being born in NY but is Swedish.

Now you'll have some skewing from countries that allow citizenship after years of servitude (for example germany) upon revocation of your current citizenship. Jason Holland would be an example there as someone on EP that is listed as German despite being born and raised in Canada.

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10-26-2011, 05:26 PM
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Pretty difficult to say. You can say that any of these countries can suddenly have a hockey phenom born there. You can also say, it will never happen.

Most of them will require the player to be born there, but leave fairly young to find a better hockey system somewhere else. Then you have to argue if that counts.

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10-26-2011, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Spain 110th Overall


Seriously, Miguel Baldrís is not exactly "spanish". He was born and raised in Canada, and his brother, Roberto, is playing also in Canada. Last year, Miguel played with Jaca after five years of retirement, and now i think that he's working with the Spanish National Team. I suppose that his family is Spanish, but is a similar case like Raphael Diaz, with spanish ties but he's swiss.

Otherwise, I don't think that we have enough potential to put a player in the NHL Draft. Maybe the CHL Import Draft in anyone take a chance with our prospect, but no more than that.

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10-26-2011, 07:18 PM
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I could deffinately see there being some great swiss prospects in the very near future like #1-3 calibre type players

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10-26-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulkkinen View Post


Seriously, Miguel Baldrís is not exactly "spanish". He was born and raised in Canada, and his brother, Roberto, is playing also in Canada. Last year, Miguel played with Jaca after five years of retirement, and now i think that he's working with the Spanish National Team. I suppose that his family is Spanish, but is a similar case like Raphael Diaz, with spanish ties but he's swiss.

Otherwise, I don't think that we have enough potential to put a player in the NHL Draft. Maybe the CHL Import Draft in anyone take a chance with our prospect, but no more than that.

Ivan Gracia is about as close as it gets? or maybe that goalie you guys have playing in the french league( I think)

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10-26-2011, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Pretty easy ....

Canada 1st Overall - Obviously yes.
Czech Republic 1st Overall - Difficult to say. Programme is trending downwards and we won't be seeing a #1 calibre player for along time Russia 1st Overall - Highly likely ; Yakupov
Sweden 1st Overall - Possible.
United States 1st Overall - Yes
I disagree.

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10-26-2011, 07:48 PM
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Probably not in the short term, but if hockey continues to develop as a major sport in Europe and the world talent pool gets deeper (so countries like SVK/CZE get back to producing regularly plus new European producers) its possible that one day there'll be infrastructure for more kids of new nationalities to make it to a high level. But that's decades away, at the earliest. Otherwise a random could just bounce in.


I will however use Switzerland, Denmark and Norway as good examples of growth. Ten years ago there would have been very little optimism in a player coming out of those countries but now a country like Switzerland has strong prospects every year. Denmark and Norway are definitely both improving though their domestic leagues and infrastructure are still a long way behind Switzerland.

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10-26-2011, 08:03 PM
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ponder
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+1 to Switzerland, Norway and Denmark, all up and coming hockey nations who have a good chance to produce some great talent in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Canada 1st Overall - Obviously yes.
Czech Republic 1st Overall - Difficult to say. Programme is trending downwards and we won't be seeing a #1 calibre player for along time
Russia 1st Overall - Highly likely ; Yakupov
Sweden 1st Overall - Possible.
United States 1st Overall - Yes
You should probably review your understanding of the word "higher."

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10-26-2011, 08:07 PM
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LolungoReboundo
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There was a player drafted from Japan and from South Korea :O

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10-26-2011, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
He has Swiss nationality.
He was actually born in Italy and then moved to Suiss. But in reality Northern Italians and Southern Suiss are basically the same people.

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10-26-2011, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Denmark 8th Overall - Possible. Improving nation development wise and had recent 1st round picks. But you need a super talent who is in the right time and the right place. I think one day it's likely, but difficult to project when.
I'm ready to speculate that 2013 might just be the year.

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10-26-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LolungoReboundo View Post
There was a player drafted from Japan and from South Korea :O
and one from south africa and one from lebanon. so what?

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10-26-2011, 11:52 PM
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kaiser matias
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
He was actually born in Italy and then moved to Suiss. But in reality Northern Italians and Southern Suiss are basically the same people.
Not to detract anything from your statment, but Sbisa was born on Sardinia.

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