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Old
10-30-2011, 12:42 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by JC93 View Post
I don't have anything important to say, other than the name "Randy" is hilarious. And every time I read "the Randy's" on this site I cant stop laughing.
Got any better suggestions to what we should call them?

Edit:
Yes! I know Randy is another term for Horny in parts of Canada. :-)

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10-30-2011, 12:45 AM
  #327
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Got any better suggestions to what we should call them?
Macho Men?

OOOOOH YEAH!!!


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10-30-2011, 12:46 AM
  #328
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Macho Men?

OOOOOH YEAH!!!

PS my Edit above.

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10-30-2011, 12:50 AM
  #329
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PS my Edit above.
Yeah, read it. Didn't know that.

Do I make you randy, Randy? Do I?

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10-30-2011, 12:52 AM
  #330
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CBC hotstove re-affirming my initial reaction to the decision... classless (at least as viewed from people around the league... "experts" as opposed to just us fans).

but hey, 3 wins in a row, so who needs class anyways
Totally agree. Classless and desperate. Yet, in every classless and desperate move, good could come out from it....and it's possible it did. Though while PG and JM aren't my favorite people, I'm not saying PG is classless but clearly at the time it was done and all, let just say that the timing was off. Frankly, I had hoped Pearn was gone in the summer and especially when we learned about both of the Randys coming. I had Ladouceur behind the bench at that exact moment. Pearn should have been helped to choose something else then....

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10-30-2011, 12:52 AM
  #331
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I prefer winning to class, especially when you have lots of class already and desperately need wins.

It'll be hard to criticize the decision if it marks the turning point of Montreal's season, regardless of class and/or whether it made logical sense. I'm going with the hockey gods being pleased with the sacrifice.
sadly, that is more a reflection of our own perception, than it is of a league wide perception.

i suppose in the day/age we live in, doing things "right" is always sacrificed in favor of the short-term fix (be it in wins, or financial gain)... why should habs be any different.


brings an interesting question to mind though... the "class" that is/was associated with our organization seems largely tied to certain ex-players/individuals who not only "won", but did so in a way that earned the respect of their peers.

I wonder how much of that is a true reflection of the individuals/teams who brought glory to the organization, and how much of that is simply the fact that "we" won so much.

in other words, is the much celebrated "class" of the montreal canadiens really about the behaviour of past teams/players while winning, or is it the humbled reaction of all the other teams/players who were never quite as good?

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Totally agree. Classless and desperate. Yet, in every classless and desperate move, good could come out from it....and it's possible it did. Though while PG and JM aren't my favorite people, I'm not saying PG is classless but clearly at the time it was done and all, let just say that the timing was off. Frankly, I had hoped Pearn was gone in the summer and especially when we learned about both of the Randys coming. I had Ladouceur behind the bench at that exact moment. Pearn should have been helped to choose something else then....
yeah, that's the thing... I have no issue whatsoever with the decision to replace a coach... that's what a GM is paid to due (manage staff).

but even aside from the issue of wether or not the decision to fire Pearns lacked class or reeked of desperation, I'm more concerned about what it says of PG's ability to proper evaluate the organization's needs, and his decision making process in general.

strikes me as a very "weak" move, and imho, GM is a position that requires and incredibly strong individual, at least if they expect to build a real, long-term "winner".


Last edited by Habsfan18: 10-30-2011 at 01:00 AM. Reason: merge
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10-30-2011, 01:21 AM
  #332
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I think people across the league are overreacting to the firing of an assistant coach. To call it "classless" is a bit much, especially if they aren't privy to what's happening internally in the organization, nor had access to see exactly how Pearn was doing his job. Maybe Pearn was asleep at the wheel, not pulling his weight behind the bench, in practice, in meetings, in video sessions, and was distributing ice time incorrectly both among the defence and on the power play. Maybe he's been to blame on numerous too many men penalties this season and last. Maybe this, maybe that... we don't even know, and we watch this time with a microscope. NFL head coaches fire their offensive or defensive coordinators when necessary if something isn't working. This is probably no different. I think it's easy to call the team "classless" without adding anything of substance to such a claim.

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10-30-2011, 01:27 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Habit11 View Post
I think people across the league are overreacting to the firing of an assistant coach. To call it "classless" is a bit much, especially if they aren't privy to what's happening internally in the organization, nor had access to see exactly how Pearn was doing his job. Maybe Pearn was asleep at the wheel, not pulling his weight behind the bench, in practice, in meetings, in video sessions, and was distributing ice time incorrectly both among the defence and on the power play. Maybe he's been to blame on numerous too many men penalties this season and last. Maybe this, maybe that... we don't even know, and we watch this time with a microscope. NFL head coaches fire their offensive or defensive coordinators when necessary if something isn't working. This is probably no different. I think it's easy to call the team "classless" without adding anything of substance to such a claim.
Bingo. We have no idea what's going on behind closed doors. In that regards, Gauthier's "think outside the box" message might mean that Pearn was refractory to some changes that needed to be made to the way the team is coached/trained/managed day-to-day.

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10-30-2011, 01:32 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Bloumeister View Post
Bingo. We have no idea what's going on behind closed doors. In that regards, Gauthier's "think outside the box" message might mean that Pearn was refractory to some changes that needed to be made to the way the team is coached/trained/managed day-to-day.
I trust MAGs comments on this from La Presse On TSN-Habs the other night. "out side the box" I think means JM listening to the Randy's & taking their opinion rather than his buddy Pearn all the time.

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10-30-2011, 01:43 AM
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I trust MAGs comments on this from La Presse On TSN-Habs the other night. "out side the box" I think means JM listening to the Randy's & taking their opinion rather than his buddy Pearn all the time.
Or having to listen to their opinion, i.e. being told by his boss to "think outside the box" too.

In any case, there's nothing wrong with shaking things up a little. I'd be surprised if Pearn gets treated poorly or "classlessly" by Habs management.

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10-30-2011, 01:45 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Bloumeister View Post
Or having to listen to their opinion, i.e. being told by his boss to "think outside the box" too.

In any case, there's nothing wrong with shaking things up a little. I'd be surprised if Pearn gets treated poorly or "classlessly" by Habs management.
People also forget they offered him another position in the organization, so he'll still have a job if he wants it.

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10-30-2011, 01:47 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Habit11 View Post
I think people across the league are overreacting to the firing of an assistant coach. To call it "classless" is a bit much, especially if they aren't privy to what's happening internally in the organization, nor had access to see exactly how Pearn was doing his job. Maybe Pearn was asleep at the wheel, not pulling his weight behind the bench, in practice, in meetings, in video sessions, and was distributing ice time incorrectly both among the defence and on the power play. Maybe he's been to blame on numerous too many men penalties this season and last. Maybe this, maybe that... we don't even know, and we watch this time with a microscope. NFL head coaches fire their offensive or defensive coordinators when necessary if something isn't working. This is probably no different. I think it's easy to call the team "classless" without adding anything of substance to such a claim.
I think that is exactly why the reaction has been the way it's been...

A HC firing his assistant or deciding to make a change is one thing. A GM going over the head of the HC to fire an assistant, in the middle of the season, is pretty rare (does anyone ever recall hearing of this happening before?).

the habs offering him a job, and JM trying to stop PG from firing him, both point to a decision that was made more for publicity and/or to "shake up the room" than for any other reason.

i think that's likely why other coaches around the league are shaking their heads at it, and why observers who understand what goes on behind the scenes, think so poorly of it.

PG was obviously under pressure, the team was playing poorly, apparently he was trying very hard to make a roster change, and when that fell through, he seemingly made a sacrificial lamb out of a coach with a long track record of success, and who could hardly be considered the source of the teams problems (what with the HC fully supportive of his work to date).

as has been talked about at length, even with the bad start results-wise, the team wasn't actually playing that bad.

firing a person from their job, and one who is clearly being made a scapegoat, just to make a statement, is i think what is, rightfully so, being called classless.

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10-30-2011, 01:50 AM
  #338
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I trust MAGs comments on this from La Presse On TSN-Habs the other night. "out side the box" I think means JM listening to the Randy's & taking their opinion rather than his buddy Pearn all the time.
talk about being a "lame duck" if that is the case...

imagine your boss firing your best friend & a coworker whose work/contributions you value, just to get you to listen to the two other guys he brought in to work under you a few months earlier.

Habs now officially have a eunuch as a head coach...

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10-30-2011, 01:53 AM
  #339
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People also forget they offered him another position in the organization, so he'll still have a job if he wants it.
True, it's not like they threw him out. He's not living in the park....

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talk about being a "lame duck" if that is the case...

imagine your boss firing your best friend & a coworker whose work/contributions you value, just to get you to listen to the two other guys he brought in to work under you a few months earlier.

Habs now officially have a eunuch as a head coach...
I Know, It sucks hard! But I think with Muller gone(The BIG Missing Piece), those new guys are here because of experiences & not supposed to just watch the game. we were losing & apparently JM wasn't taking their opinions, which seem to be helping!

Maybe JM can grow! everyone can, just need a kick in the Arse sometime! habits are natural & hard to break...


Last edited by Habsfan18: 10-30-2011 at 11:41 AM. Reason: merge
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10-30-2011, 02:09 AM
  #340
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I think that is exactly why the reaction has been the way it's been...

A HC firing his assistant or deciding to make a change is one thing. A GM going over the head of the HC to fire an assistant, in the middle of the season, is pretty rare (does anyone ever recall hearing of this happening before?).

the habs offering him a job, and JM trying to stop PG from firing him, both point to a decision that was made more for publicity and/or to "shake up the room" than for any other reason.

i think that's likely why other coaches around the league are shaking their heads at it, and why observers who understand what goes on behind the scenes, think so poorly of it.

PG was obviously under pressure, the team was playing poorly, apparently he was trying very hard to make a roster change, and when that fell through, he seemingly made a sacrificial lamb out of a coach with a long track record of success, and who could hardly be considered the source of the teams problems (what with the HC fully supportive of his work to date).

as has been talked about at length, even with the bad start results-wise, the team wasn't actually playing that bad.

firing a person from their job, and one who is clearly being made a scapegoat, just to make a statement, is i think what is, rightfully so, being called classless.
Perhaps JM couldn't fire his friend Pearn? Does he even have the power to do that? I'm not so sure he does. I think head coaches are allowed to bring in their assistants when hired, but often times we've seen head coaches fired, and assistant coaches retained, so I don't think JM has the power to do so.

Assistant coaches have more responsibility now than ever, and the start to the season indicates that the two things Pearn was in charge of absolutely sucked, and look completely different after he was fired. Coincidence? Maybe. Again, all I'm saying is, it's possible Pearn wasn't doing his job, and PG stepped in and let him go.

Burke fired Wilson's assistants, and no one said a peep about it in the media, not like this anyway. It was Burke being Burke. Their special teams were awful, the assistants got canned. No one cared. If people want to disagree with it, fine, but to call it classless when a GM fires someone he thinks isn't doing his job, is such a mischaracterization of a situation they don't have real information about.

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10-30-2011, 02:12 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I think that is exactly why the reaction has been the way it's been...

A HC firing his assistant or deciding to make a change is one thing. A GM going over the head of the HC to fire an assistant, in the middle of the season, is pretty rare (does anyone ever recall hearing of this happening before?).

the habs offering him a job, and JM trying to stop PG from firing him, both point to a decision that was made more for publicity and/or to "shake up the room" than for any other reason.

i think that's likely why other coaches around the league are shaking their heads at it, and why observers who understand what goes on behind the scenes, think so poorly of it.

PG was obviously under pressure, the team was playing poorly, apparently he was trying very hard to make a roster change, and when that fell through, he seemingly made a sacrificial lamb out of a coach with a long track record of success, and who could hardly be considered the source of the teams problems (what with the HC fully supportive of his work to date).

as has been talked about at length, even with the bad start results-wise, the team wasn't actually playing that bad.

firing a person from their job, and one who is clearly being made a scapegoat, just to make a statement, is i think what is, rightfully so, being called classless.
But you don't know that. Any of that. No one does.

As for the scapegoat theory: PG could just as easily made the switch between Ladouceur and Pearn, putting the Randys behind the bench and Pearn upstairs. Of course, there's no scapegoat in this move, but is it possible that Pearn has been let go because he just wasn't able to "get with the program"?

It's been hinted at that Muller and Pearn didn't see eye-to-eye last year, that JM ultimately sided with Pearn, hence signaling the end of Muller in the organization. Maybe upper management - Gauthier, Carrière, Timmins or even Geoff Molson and right-hand man Kevin Gilmore - challenged the coaching staff to "think outside the box", and came to the realization that Pearn couldn't/wouldn't.

Maybe. Just maybe.

Making Pearn the scapegoat makes for a very poor smokescreen, if you ask me. I have a hard time believing that it's the best idea Gauthier could come up with to buy himself some time/save his skinny butt.

Personally? I still think my "human sacrifice" theory is the soundest one yet..




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10-30-2011, 02:14 AM
  #342
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Perhaps JM couldn't fire his friend Pearn? Does he even have the power to do that? I'm not so sure he does. I think head coaches are allowed to bring in their assistants when hired, but often times we've seen head coaches fired, and assistant coaches retained, so I don't think JM has the power to do so.

Assistant coaches have more responsibility now than ever, and the start to the season indicates that the two things Pearn was in charge of absolutely sucked, and look completely different after he was fired. Coincidence? Maybe. Again, all I'm saying is, it's possible Pearn wasn't doing his job, and PG stepped in and let him go.

Burke fired Wilson's assistants, and no one said a peep about it in the media, not like this anyway. It was Burke being Burke. Their special teams were awful, the assistants got canned. No one cared. If people want to disagree with it, fine, but to call it classless when a GM fires someone he thinks isn't doing his job, is such a mischaracterization of a situation they don't have real information about.
Don't disagree with most of what you said...

but the big difference with the leafs move is the timing. I think had PG replaced Pearn in the offseason, no one would have said anything.

heck, even with Muller moving on, as much grumbling as there was for losing him, there really wasn't any big flack and certainly no outright negativity from the hockey world.

what akes this situation the attention-grabber and controversial topic it's been, is the timing and the context. 8 games into the season the GM decides to change the direction of the team, by firing an assistant coach? doesn't really fit... and those most familiar with how things go behind the scenes seem to be calling it for what it "really" was, at least in their eyes.

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10-30-2011, 02:15 AM
  #343
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Habs now officially have a eunuch as a head coach...
As opposed to one who asks that his team plays as ones?

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10-30-2011, 02:18 AM
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But you don't know that. Any of that. No one does.

As for the scapegoat theory: PG could just as easily made the switch between Ladouceur and Pearn, putting the Randys behind the bench and Pearn upstairs. Of course, there's no scapegoat in this move, but is it possible that Pearn has been let go because he just wasn't able to "get with the program"?

It's been hinted at that Muller and Pearn didn't see eye-to-eye last year, that JM ultimately sided with Pearn, hence signaling the end of Muller in the organization. Maybe upper management - Gauthier, Carrière, Timmins or even Geoff Molson and right-hand man Kevin Gilmore - challenged the coaching staff to "think outside the box", and came to the realization that Pearn couldn't/wouldn't.

Maybe. Just maybe.

Making Pearn the scapegoat makes for a very poor smokescreen, if you ask me. I have a hard time believing that it's the best idea Gauthier could come up with to buy himself some time/save his skinny butt.

Personally? I still think my "human sacrifice" theory is the soundest one yet..



you are right, of course, we don't "know" anything beyond the clips/soundbites that we get. hasn't stopped us from discussing items before, isn't that why we're here?


the human sacrifice idea has some merit, but if we're going that route, I'd go more down the lines of some sex scandal involving swingers clubs, costumes, and scientology... something about PG's demeanor has "eyes wide shut" written all over him.

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10-30-2011, 02:18 AM
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Why is it classless? The D sucked. The special teams sucked. Both of which Pearn was apparently responsible for.

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10-30-2011, 02:24 AM
  #346
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don't disagree with most of what you said...

but the big difference with the leafs move is the timing. I think had PG replaced Pearn in the offseason, no one would have said anything.

heck, even with Muller moving on, as much grumbling as there was for losing him, there really wasn't any big flack and certainly no outright negativity from the hockey world.

what akes this situation the attention-grabber and controversial topic it's been, is the timing and the context. 8 games into the season the GM decides to change the direction of the team, by firing an assistant coach? doesn't really fit... and those most familiar with how things go behind the scenes seem to be calling it for what it "really" was, at least in their eyes.
I get that, it's unusual, and it's not how things are normally done. I also see the reaction to it as unusual, that's all. Don't want to go back and forth here with ya, I just think that a team that also continues to pay Gomez that salary should never, ever be called classless

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10-30-2011, 02:33 AM
  #347
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you are right, of course, we don't "know" anything beyond the clips/soundbites that we get. hasn't stopped us from discussing items before, isn't that why we're here?

the human sacrifice idea has some merit, but if we're going that route, I'd go more down the lines of some sex scandal involving swingers clubs, costumes, and scientology... something about PG's demeanor has "eyes wide shut" written all over him.
I totally see it. I was heading to sleep in a few minutes, but now that you've implanted this image in my mind, I'll spend the night "eyes wide open"...

Back to the topic at hand: in all seriousness, I think that management and coaching staff had a lot of meetings over the last 3 weeks. Ultimately some lines were drawn, and there was probably some consensus as to which direction the team had to go from where it was. If Gauthier felt that Pearn was the odd man out, the fifth wheel on his bandwagon or just the guy rowing in another direction, it was his prerogative to pull the trigger on the guy. I just don't buy the scapegoat theory. It would be like sacrificing kittens when the gods expected the village newborns.

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I get that, it's unusual, and it's not how things are normally done. I also see the reaction to it as unusual, that's all. Don't want to go back and forth here with ya, I just think that a team that also continues to pay Gomez that salary should never, ever be called classless
Classless, no. Clueless, maybe?


Last edited by overlords: 10-30-2011 at 02:39 AM.
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10-30-2011, 08:12 AM
  #348
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no bench minors since....a ton b4

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10-30-2011, 09:16 AM
  #349
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Perry Pearn was a real dick...I mean we are 3w after he left

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10-30-2011, 11:38 AM
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I never liked him. To be honest, I think he was Santa Clause's foil.

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