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Jaromir Jagr vs. Alexander Ovechkin

View Poll Results: Who would you take?
Jagr 147 84.48%
Ovechkin 27 15.52%
Voters: 174. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-27-2011, 07:43 PM
  #1
joe_shannon_1983*
 
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Jaromir Jagr vs. Alexander Ovechkin

At their very best, who would you take?

So we are basically looking at:

Jagr from 1996-2001 vs. Ovechkin from 2006-2011

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Old
10-27-2011, 07:46 PM
  #2
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Jagr.

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Old
10-27-2011, 07:50 PM
  #3
Luigi Lemieux
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Yeah...this one goes to Jagr quite easily. I don't think i even need to explain why.

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Old
10-27-2011, 07:55 PM
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Sky04
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this one isn't fair to Ovy, Jagr took the torch from Lemieux and Gretzky and carried it for those years

imo, Ovy's 65 goal season ranks lower then Jagrs 127 point dead puck era season.

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10-27-2011, 07:56 PM
  #5
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Jagr is a top 10 forward all time. Those years are what propelled him to that level.

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10-27-2011, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
Jagr is a top 10 forward all time. Those years are what propelled him to that level.
Indeed.

But I would bet anyone here $1000 that Ovechkin will go down as either the best or 2nd-best LW'er of all-time by the time he is done. Right now, Hull has him beat, but who knows 10-15 years from now? It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Jagr probably will go down as the 3rd/4th-best RW'er of all-time. Behind Howe and Richard, with personal opinion differing between him and Lafleur.

Granted, RW has always been a more loaded position than LW.

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Old
10-27-2011, 08:53 PM
  #7
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wait what?

ovi is great, don't get me wrong...but jagr is in a league of his own

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Old
10-27-2011, 09:09 PM
  #8
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Because of last year I think Ovy is going to loose pretty easily.

If not, should be kind of close imo, Ovy has better playoff stats.
regular season:
Ovy: 475 301 313 614
Jagr: 447 282 408 690

With a normal season (about 25 more points) Ovechkin would not be that far.

playoff stats :
ovy: 37 25 25 50
Jagr: 65 34 46 80

Extrapoled for 82 games you have.
Ovy: 55.4 goal 55.4 assist 111 points
Jagr: 42.9 goal 58 assist 101 points

Maybe this is because Jagr was so much the focus and the entire match plan of the others team in playoff in the end of the 90', at least I remembered the Habs playing very well against Jagr when playing the pens.

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Old
10-27-2011, 09:12 PM
  #9
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The one with the mullet

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10-27-2011, 09:58 PM
  #10
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I'm a caps fan and even I can admit its Jagr and its not close. Someone else said he is a top 10 forward of all time. I'd say he's pretty close to cracking to the top 5. Just a joy to watch on the ice.

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10-27-2011, 10:18 PM
  #11
czechmate25
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Jagr in his prime would outscore any current superstar by 20+ points a year..

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10-27-2011, 10:24 PM
  #12
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Yeah if you made this poll just after 09-10 season, at least it would've been debatable. Last season really hurt Ovy's image regarding his scoring prowess. He was regarded as a lock for 700 career goals by many, dunno how it is now. Though on the same token Jagr had disappointing seasons production wise of his own (2001-04), even failing to record PPG in one of them.

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Old
10-27-2011, 10:32 PM
  #13
MadLuke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czechmate25 View Post
Jagr in his prime would outscore any current superstar by 20+ points a year..
Crosby would also, creating one infinite loop and destroying the universes.

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10-27-2011, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
Crosby would also, creating one infinite loop and destroying the universes.
I said any current superstar...that means healthy and un-healthy.

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10-27-2011, 10:48 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czechmate25 View Post
I said any current superstar...that means healthy and un-healthy.
Most likely, but I can see Crosby reaching that level of play if he can stay healthy. He was on pace for about 135 points last season if I remember correctly.

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10-27-2011, 11:05 PM
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Jagr AINEC.

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Old
10-27-2011, 11:08 PM
  #17
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Prime Jagr under the new rules would never loose the puck. We're talking about arguably the best puck protection player ever.

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10-27-2011, 11:27 PM
  #18
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OV vs Jagr you say? lol

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10-27-2011, 11:39 PM
  #19
CRSeven
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Easily Jagr.

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Old
10-27-2011, 11:54 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
this one isn't fair to Ovy, Jagr took the torch from Lemieux and Gretzky and carried it for those years

imo, Ovy's 65 goal season ranks lower then Jagrs 127 point dead puck era season.
While the correct answer is clearly Jagr, Ovechkin's 65 goal season was stupid good. He was scoring 1.25 more goals as the next closest guy

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Old
10-28-2011, 12:23 AM
  #21
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I'd like to see what Sid can do in his prime. He outproduced Jagr's early years.

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Old
10-28-2011, 04:35 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I'd like to see what Sid can do in his prime. He outproduced Jagr's early years.
Crosby's first 2-3 seasons are clearly better than Jagr's, but the gap is getting narrower by the day. If you project the '95 lockout year to 82 games:

First 6 seasons

Crosby 412 gm, 215 G, 357 A, 572 Pts
Jagr 475 gm, 242 G, 346 A, 608 Pts

Now you take Jagr's 7th season of 63 gm, 48 G, 47 A and then 4 consecutive Art Ross seasons following that, which averaged 76 gm, 46 G, 68 A

So after 11 seasons (with '95 projected to full season):

Jagr 840 gm, 462 G, 686 A, 1148 Pts

That means Crosby would have to average over the next 5 seasons (including this one):

49.4 G, 65.8 A, 115 Pts

That's a tall order for a player who hasn't even played in almost a year, and who has exceeded each of those numbers only once so far.

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Old
10-28-2011, 04:53 AM
  #23
Czech Your Math
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
Because of last year I think Ovy is going to loose pretty easily.

If not, should be kind of close imo, Ovy has better playoff stats.
regular season:
Ovy: 475 301 313 614
Jagr: 447 282 408 690

With a normal season (about 25 more points) Ovechkin would not be that far.

playoff stats :
ovy: 37 25 25 50
Jagr: 65 34 46 80


Extrapoled for 82 games you have.
Ovy: 55.4 goal 55.4 assist 111 points
Jagr: 42.9 goal 58 assist 101 points

Maybe this is because Jagr was so much the focus and the entire match plan of the others team in playoff in the end of the 90', at least I remembered the Habs playing very well against Jagr when playing the pens.
Using 2001 playoffs is a bit unfair to Jagr. He was already injured in the second round (missing games) and playing basically with one arm by the ECF.

'95 to '00 is Jagr's real playoff prime:

61 gm, 42 G, 41 A
per 82 = 56.5 G, 55.1 A, 111.6 Pts

If you include first two rounds of '01:

72 gm, 44 G, 51 A
per 82 = 50.1 G, 58.1 A, 108.2 Pts

Both players are the focus of the opposition. The main difference is that most of those '95-01 teams were not near the top of the league and Jagr had to carry some of the later teams to the playoffs mostly on his own. Also, once Francis left, his linemates (Straka, Hrdina, Miller, Barnes, Titov, etc.) were not generally of the quality that Ovechkin has had in recent years.

As far as playoffs, Jagr was playing hurt A LOT in the later years. In '99, when he led that epic comeback against the #1 seeded Devils, it was questionable whether he would even return by the end of the series. In '00, after a 5 OT game in which he had almost 60 min. of ice time, he played only 5 min. of the next game before he was injured and did not return, then held scoreless the game after that. And already mentioned injury in '01. I don't think it was a coincidence that in these three seasons (and in '06 w/ NYR as well), he was injured, as Francis had left and Jagr had a tough task getting those teams to the playoffs every year, while taking as much punishment as any player possibly could.


Last edited by Czech Your Math: 10-28-2011 at 05:34 AM.
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Old
10-28-2011, 05:15 AM
  #24
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Jagr.

I don't think the "new" post-lockout fans realize what a force Jagr was.

Aside from the strength you can see today, he was also FAST.
With the post-lockout rules, Jagr in his prime would hardly ever lose the puck.

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Old
10-28-2011, 06:52 AM
  #25
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It's pretty obvious that the majority of Crosby fans weren't watching hockey in the early 90's....if they were, you wouldn't see too many "well, Crosby out produced Jagr through their first 4 years...yada, yada, yada".

The reason for that, is b/c if they had watched the Pens in 1990, they would know that Jagr was drafted on a great team, with loads of talent....and b/c of that, Jagr played the majority of his first few seasons on the 3rd line with guys like Loney, Phil Bourque, Jiri Hrdina and an aged Trottier. He wasn't thrust on the first line right away like Crosby was b/c there was no need. Jagr was brought along slowly, Crobsy wasn't.

Maybe it is this reason that Jagr has such a strong work ethic, b/c he paid his dues and earned his stripes, which continues to this day and evident in the fact that a 39 year old who has nothing left to prove is still pulling two-a-days.....he didn't have a red carpet thrown out for him.

Any rational person would understand why the performance discrepancy exists.

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