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JVR's ice time

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Old
10-25-2011, 01:24 PM
  #1
Hanson Brothers
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JVR's ice time

Kinda surprised that nobody is talking about JVR's ice time. Last three games just about 12 minutes. And he was even taken off the PP2 in the last game. Is he really playing so poorly? Or just in the coach's dog house?

Also, Voracek's ice time is surprisingly low. I'd have guessed these two would be playing regularly 17-18+ minutes each evening. Their skill level should have them in the top 6 without a question.

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10-25-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hanson Brothers View Post
Kinda surprised that nobody is talking about JVR's ice time. Last three games just about 12 minutes. And he was even taken off the PP2 in the last game. Is he really playing so poorly? Or just in the coach's dog house?

Also, Voracek's ice time is surprisingly low. I'd have guessed these two would be playing regularly 17-18+ minutes each evening. Their skill level should have them in the top 6 without a question.
JVR and Voracek for Weber... you heard it first here

I know it doesn't work salary wise too, just kidding around. Jvr just hasnt been playing all that well right now but too early to pass judgement

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10-25-2011, 01:39 PM
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We are rolling 4 line pretty regularly so nobody is seeing huge amounts of ice time. I think it's a good thing seeing how Richie and others just seemed to wear down come playoff time in recent years with seeing 22-25 minutes a game.

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10-25-2011, 02:06 PM
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i would like to see him get more ice time but honestly he hasn't really deserved it. last night was a different story, i thought he was really flying and i was sure something was going to happen for him but it didn't pan out. i think he will have a big game soon and then we'll probably see his ice time shoot up. he got off to a real slow start last season too, in fact lavy benched him for a couple games. i'll start getting worried if things don't turn around for some players by about the 20 game mark.

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10-25-2011, 02:12 PM
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Love JvR, but I don't think he's going to be the player we all wanted him to be.

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10-25-2011, 02:14 PM
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Love JvR, but I don't think he's going to be the player we all wanted him to be.
Same.

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10-25-2011, 02:15 PM
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1) I have a strange feeling, completely without hard evidence, that JVR might just be a slow-starter.

2) I think he's been more affected by the shuffling of the lines than anyone but Briere. He's at his best playing with the puck on his stick, and Jagr-Roo didn't really allow him to do that. He's also been shuffled to a few different lines so far, so he'll need some time to settle in.

3) He's still a relatively young player, particularly for a PWF. I'm not saying the playoff performance was an aberration--but I don't think it was reasonable to expect him to maintain that level of performance thoughout the season.

4) A few of the recent games were penalty-fests--a ton of special teams play, which kept the team from getting in a rhythm, and kept JVR off the ice for long periods of time.

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10-25-2011, 02:25 PM
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He's not looking any more consistent, that's for sure. I'd like to see him step up sometime soon. I'm not terribly worried yet, the season is still young.

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10-25-2011, 02:28 PM
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Remember when he signed his extension despite not having proven a thing and everyone was all "yay" and some of us were all "ehhhh this is kinda scary. I like JVR and all but..." and then you were all like "hater!". Well, we are 8 games in, and he looks like JVR of old. WHo is a solid enough player, but nowhere near deserving of the contract he signed.

I will continue to hope he turns into playoff JVR full time.

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10-25-2011, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
Love JvR, but I don't think he's going to be the player we all wanted him to be.
so glad Homer jumped the gun and gave him that extension!

guess who the new whipping boy will be once Hartnell is gone?

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10-25-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Remember when he signed his extension despite not having proven a thing and everyone was all "yay" and some of us were all "ehhhh this is kinda scary. I like JVR and all but..." and then you were all like "hater!". Well, we are 8 games in, and he looks like JVR of old. WHo is a solid enough player, but nowhere near deserving of the contract he signed.

I will continue to hope he turns into playoff JVR full time.
and to think, Homer apparently would have still picked JVR over Kane if we would have gotten the 1st OA pick

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10-25-2011, 03:02 PM
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JVR gets a lot of scoring chances, but he just can't seem to capitalize on them consistently....Hopefully it will start clicking for him, because he certainly has the talent.

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10-25-2011, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
Love JvR, but I don't think he's going to be the player we all wanted him to be.
My lord this fanbase is so retardedly fickle.
He's TWENTY-TWO years old. His body isn't even done growing...he has exceptional speed for his size and great hands. He's has like 3 great chances so far that were flat out rob jobs this season...AND this team is so deep he isn't NEEDED to log crazy minutes. If he was on MTL he'd play 22 minutes a game and be the face of the franchise...

Settle down...

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10-25-2011, 03:48 PM
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He doesn't deserve the icetime at the moment.

Last night was his best effort of the season, but it still is well below where he was in the playoffs.

The issue with JVR is playing a perimeter game or his he driving the net on a regulations basis.

Far too often he's been playing a little man's game, and not using that size and strength like he did last spring.

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10-25-2011, 03:51 PM
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hey lets all make judgements on him when the season's barely started. he has plenty of time to settle down and get his game on track, patience people...

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10-25-2011, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
My lord this fanbase is so retardedly fickle.
He's TWENTY-TWO years old. His body isn't even done growing...he has exceptional speed for his size and great hands. He's has like 3 great chances so far that were flat out rob jobs this season...AND this team is so deep he isn't NEEDED to log crazy minutes. If he was on MTL he'd play 22 minutes a game and be the face of the franchise...

Settle down...
Voracek is 22 also... and people get on his case when he doesnt do well. Same can be said about JVR. He needs to play better and it has nothing to do with luck.

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10-25-2011, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
My lord this fanbase is so retardedly fickle.
He's TWENTY-TWO years old. His body isn't even done growing...he has exceptional speed for his size and great hands. He's has like 3 great chances so far that were flat out rob jobs this season...AND this team is so deep he isn't NEEDED to log crazy minutes. If he was on MTL he'd play 22 minutes a game and be the face of the franchise...

Settle down...
It's not fickle if he's meeting the expectations you've always had for him.

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Old
10-25-2011, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
My lord this fanbase is so retardedly fickle.
He's TWENTY-TWO years old. His body isn't even done growing...he has exceptional speed for his size and great hands. He's has like 3 great chances so far that were flat out rob jobs this season...AND this team is so deep he isn't NEEDED to log crazy minutes. If he was on MTL he'd play 22 minutes a game and be the face of the franchise...

Settle down...
22 years old isn't at young as you think it is nowadays. Skinner put up 60+ points at 18, THAT'S young. JvR is on his 3rd season as a full time NHL'er and hasn't shown that he can carry a team, let alone a line (besides the short playoff stint of course). Besides one ridiculous backhand I remember him having over Lundqvist, he doesn't really have a shot. His hands aren't excellent as well. He usually just drives wide and tosses it on net. He's just big and fast. I still really hope I'm incredibly wrong and he just busts out with 70+ points. Really...really hope.

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Old
10-25-2011, 06:33 PM
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He has small flashes of brilliance, like making a great deke, or finding a weak spot in the D, and then he doesn't finish and I caught myself saying to the TV last night "Cmon James, you ought to be making these plays by now..."

Right now I'm afraid he's heading to the same spot Coburn is in...a player with RIDICULOUS tools who can't put it all together to become an elite player.

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Old
10-25-2011, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
My lord this fanbase is so retardedly fickle.
He's TWENTY-TWO years old. His body isn't even done growing...he has exceptional speed for his size and great hands. He's has like 3 great chances so far that were flat out rob jobs this season...AND this team is so deep he isn't NEEDED to log crazy minutes. If he was on MTL he'd play 22 minutes a game and be the face of the franchise...

Settle down...
Sorry, but did you used to post on ESPN?

And I also agree with this post. People were still all over Bob last year even though he was god awful after the All Star break. People just need to blame Homer for giving this kid a big contract when he does not deserve it. Somethings never change.

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10-25-2011, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
We are rolling 4 line pretty regularly so nobody is seeing huge amounts of ice time. I think it's a good thing seeing how Richie and others just seemed to wear down come playoff time in recent years with seeing 22-25 minutes a game.
I agree to some extent. The fact that we're rolling our lines so evenly will mean that some of our expected top players won't reach their projected numbers those of us who play with fantasy leagues expected prior to the season started. I don't think Richards/Gagné/Carter or any of our forwards saw that much of ice time in previous seasons though. But say that Giroux and maybe Jagr or Brière might have seen 20 minutes per game with a more "traditional" lineup, now they'll see 17-18 minutes. That will take away a few points for sure from them, but might just make us a better team in the end, and better prepared for the playoffs. The same goes for the rest of our top players of course, and as such to some extent to JvR.

That JvR has had his toi reduced as much is not something that can be so easily waved off though. He hasn't played quite as well as we'd hoped for, but it's still very, very early on in the season. He was kind of left out of play when he was with Giroux and Jagr, let's hope he finds some chemistry with other linemates soon. If Hartnell-Giroxu-Jagr stays as the top line, I wouldn't mind seeing JvR-Brière-Simmonds together and have Schenn centering Read and Voracek. Maybe it's time to stop tinkering with the lines for a while though.

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Old
10-25-2011, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Remember when he signed his extension despite not having proven a thing and everyone was all "yay" and some of us were all "ehhhh this is kinda scary. I like JVR and all but..." and then you were all like "hater!". Well, we are 8 games in, and he looks like JVR of old. WHo is a solid enough player, but nowhere near deserving of the contract he signed.

I will continue to hope he turns into playoff JVR full time.
Deserving of the contract he signed? You mean the one that doesnt start until next season?

Jeez, the entire argument made by the people you are referring to is that by the time the contract starts, JVR will be deserving of $4m per year. Until then, you can not say he is deserved of anything.


That being said, I expect JVR to be producing more. I also believe that if he was given 16-18 minutes per game, he certainly would be producing more.

Unfortunately for him, players like Read have surprised and seized some of the ice time we expected to go to JVR (especially on the PP). That's not an excuse though, as JVR should obviously have to prove that he deserves the ice time before he is given it.


His play hasnt been great, no arguments there from me, but he also hasnt been put into a position to succeed yet either.

I've been saying it for a while, JVR and Schenn would be the best combo for each of them. I'm disappointed that we have yet to see it.

I propose these lines:

Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Schenn-Read
Simmonds-Briere-Voracek


JVR needs to be given room to skate. We cant keep putting him with skill guys like Giroux, Voracek and Briere. Let him have a little room and take the leash off a little and I think he will play up to his contract (which again doesnt kick in until next year )

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Old
10-25-2011, 07:38 PM
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I haven't been particularly fond of his placement on the lines. Would like to see him play with briere

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Old
10-25-2011, 08:38 PM
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For JvR: 8 Games, four points, shuffled lines, inconsistent power play time, lots of scoring chances.

Summary of the Flyers fan base recently: JvR didn't deserve an extension, Jagr has passed his prime, Bryz sucks and wasn't the answer, Brayden Schenn is terrible and belongs in the AHL for the year, Hartnell should be scratched and Briere isn't what he once was.

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10-25-2011, 08:52 PM
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DUHockey9
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Deserving of the contract he signed? You mean the one that doesnt start until next season?

Jeez, the entire argument made by the people you are referring to is that by the time the contract starts, JVR will be deserving of $4m per year. Until then, you can not say he is deserved of anything.


That being said, I expect JVR to be producing more. I also believe that if he was given 16-18 minutes per game, he certainly would be producing more.

Unfortunately for him, players like Read have surprised and seized some of the ice time we expected to go to JVR (especially on the PP). That's not an excuse though, as JVR should obviously have to prove that he deserves the ice time before he is given it.

His play hasnt been great, no arguments there from me, but he also hasnt been put into a position to succeed yet either.

I've been saying it for a while, JVR and Schenn would be the best combo for each of them. I'm disappointed that we have yet to see it.

I propose these lines:

Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Schenn-Read
Simmonds-Briere-Voracek


JVR needs to be given room to skate. We cant keep putting him with skill guys like Giroux, Voracek and Briere. Let him have a little room and take the leash off a little and I think he will play up to his contract (which again doesnt kick in until next year )
You clearly don't get it. It does not matter AT ALL what contract he is currently playing under. The criticism is the fact that he was given an extension at this time. The entire question is whether or not he was deserving of it at the time he signed it. What I, and others have argued, was that perhaps we should have waited just a little bit longer, to ensure he is closer to playoff JVR than the JVR we've seen elsewhere.

To paint a picture...

Let's say JVR signed a 6 year 42 million deal, so 7 million per year. Would you not be saying that the extension was unwarranted, because his play has not done enough to indicate he is a 7 million a year player? I don't care that he is still only making ~1.6 right now, he's still going to earn 7 for the next 6 years, regardless of how well or how poorly he plays under his current contract.

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