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#9 Kings @ Stars 10/27/11 - POST GAME WIN THOUGHTS & TIDBITS ‎

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10-28-2011, 02:19 AM
  #126
jonrazor12
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
They both want to do the same thing offensively and defensively so it just doesn't seem like it would be a good mix long-term.

If Voynov goes down, it would be telling to see if the team begins to mix and match defensive pairings. If they do that and find two that work, something will happen to fit Voynov in on the third one.

It's funny.....recently I have felt jj is more responsible than DD. They are both great players with high hockey iq. I would think they would figure out a way to play off of each other and do things no other d pairing in the league is capable of doing without sacrificing their defensive responsibility.

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10-28-2011, 02:32 AM
  #127
Johnny Utah
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Jim Fox pointed out that both Voynov and Greene are Right handed D man, where as Martinez is a lefty, which is why that pair works.

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10-28-2011, 02:32 AM
  #128
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I'd like to see Voynov stay up but honestly there's no room for him and he's the only waiver exempt defensemen we have. I'd rather send him back to Manchester and have him able to come up for the next, inevitable injury to a defenseman than to waive Drewiske and then have someone get injured.
Hickey and Muzzin can hang at the NHL level.

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Old
10-28-2011, 02:36 AM
  #129
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You people are hilarious...Trade Greene? The Kings traded Teubert because they have Greene...Kings are loaded with puck moving D-men but have no physical D men...Hickey, Voynov, Muzzin, Deslauries are all offensive guys, Muzzin has a bit of a physical side, but all those guys are offensive.

Martinez is the guy that goes if anyone...DD is the perfect #7 Dman who can sit and not have his development hurt.

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10-28-2011, 02:57 AM
  #130
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does anyone think anyone is actually going to claim Drewiske ? You all are acting like it's a given.

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10-28-2011, 03:16 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Rod Buskas View Post
does anyone think anyone is actually going to claim Drewiske ? You all are acting like it's a given.
Whether he would be claimed or not is irrelevant, Drewiske doesn't really matter much in this situation. The only reason Drewiske would be waived would be to free the roster spot for Doughty to come of the IR....but then what? Voynov is not going to sit in the press box when he could be getting playing time in Manch, Greene and Martinez sitting is also a waste of talent. Therefore there is no point in waiving Davis. There appears to be only 2 solutions, send Slava back down or trade someone.

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10-28-2011, 03:50 AM
  #132
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I don't get why you would want an established JJ-DD pairing. Both of these guys are at their best when they are the defenseman that is getting the puck when they are on the ice. They both make the breakout passes, both carry the puck through the nuetral zone, and both are the defenseman people look for at the point. Sure, it's a great "we need some goals right now" pairing and PP pairing, but I don't want to see a permenantly. We know that JJ can be dominate out there, he just needs to start doing it when DD is in the lineup.

Would you rather have both of them on the ice, niether one being THE guy that they do so well, because they are both out there, for 25+ minutes a night or have them on seperate pairings and see them 45+ minutes a night running things with Mitchell/Scuderi backing them up? Keep in mind that they will still be put together in certain situations and I don't see how you choose the former.

Also, don't trade Greene, especially not to put a Martinez-Voynov 3rd pairing. Come on people.

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10-28-2011, 04:30 AM
  #133
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Character win. I was asleep before the last two goals, but I saw Dallas tied it up and was wondering if we'd see the ye ole collapse in the third and they pulled out of the dive.

Wonderful game for Slava!


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10-28-2011, 04:50 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by FootKnight View Post
I don't get why you would want an established JJ-DD pairing. Both of these guys are at their best when they are the defenseman that is getting the puck when they are on the ice. They both make the breakout passes, both carry the puck through the nuetral zone, and both are the defenseman people look for at the point. Sure, it's a great "we need some goals right now" pairing and PP pairing, but I don't want to see a permenantly. We know that JJ can be dominate out there, he just needs to start doing it when DD is in the lineup.

Would you rather have both of them on the ice, niether one being THE guy that they do so well, because they are both out there, for 25+ minutes a night or have them on seperate pairings and see them 45+ minutes a night running things with Mitchell/Scuderi backing them up? Keep in mind that they will still be put together in certain situations and I don't see how you choose the former.

Also, don't trade Greene, especially not to put a Martinez-Voynov 3rd pairing. Come on people.
Really

So Pronger Niedermayer was a bad idea?
Pronger MacInnis?
Niedermayer Stevens?
They didn't have enough time with the puck? Come on man
Honestly if putting DD and JJ together would make the D totally unbalanced i would agree with you but it wouldnt.

And if you think Greene is dominate in any aspect of the game you are delusional. If people were clamoring to get rid of Scuds or Mitch i would totally be on your side as they bring D to the Defense. But all i see Greene do is make a hit here or there and take bad penalties and be out of position cause he is slow. Greene is on par with DD44 imo.

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10-28-2011, 04:58 AM
  #135
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A lot of good stuff going on tonight. Wont bother with the obvious praising of Voinov. Hats off to JJ though, tremendous game - and tremendous start to the season - from him.

I like the move of "demoting" Penner to the Stoll line. He had been a passenger on the Richards line until now, but on the Stoll line he seemed to be more on the puck and more of a factor. Gave us a threat. Parse looked decent too, helped the Richards line look more dangerous. He created some turnovers and grabbed a goal by going to the net for Rick's outstanding pass. Just stay out of the box, Scott. Being slightly optimistic, I will hope that this game - at least for a while - solidifies the top-9. Just have to figure out what works well for the 4th line.

Finally, wow, does the powerplay ever look better. Both units moved the puck around well creating chances. Those savvy vets Gagne and Richards certainly is a big boost.

Looking forward to the next game.

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10-28-2011, 05:56 AM
  #136
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Like I said in the GTD, watching Greene is like watching Doug Zmolek (for anyone old enough to remember).

Looks like he is playing with a pitchfork when he has the puck, always in terrible position, making terrible reads, going out of position to make hits, dumb penalties.

Martinez has not been much better, that pairing has been pretty bad this year.
That has always been my biggest problem with him. It nice to make hits and to be pysicical but sometimes that's not the best option. I cant even remember how many times a team have scored against us because Greene decided to play the body instead of the puck. I never like his cap hit either for a 3rd pairing defenseman.

Now he also makes terrible plays with dumb penalties on top of that. I cant take it anymore. Problem is, he's the only tough defenseman on this team,

I've missed last nights game. I just couldnt get out of bed (2.30 AM) but it seems like he was bad again.

I do not agree with Martinez though. He has had his fair share of very good games. Its surprising he doesnt have any points yet.

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Old
10-28-2011, 06:06 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by JT8888 View Post
Really

So Pronger Niedermayer was a bad idea?
Pronger MacInnis?
Niedermayer Stevens?
They didn't have enough time with the puck? Come on man
Honestly if putting DD and JJ together would make the D totally unbalanced i would agree with you but it wouldnt.

And if you think Greene is dominate in any aspect of the game you are delusional. If people were clamoring to get rid of Scuds or Mitch i would totally be on your side as they bring D to the Defense. But all i see Greene do is make a hit here or there and take bad penalties and be out of position cause he is slow. Greene is on par with DD44 imo.
Pronger and Niedermayer played apart most of the time (Beauchemin was paired with one of them), and Niedermayer and Stevens were very different types of players. I don't remember enough about Pronger-MacInnis to comment on them together.

How does having both of your best offensive D-men on a single pairing not make the defense unbalanced anyway? With the way Voynov has been playing you could probably pull it off, but I don't see why you would have them together ALL the time instead of keep them on different pairings and let them do their thing most of the time and then pair them together when needed.

I never said Greene was dominate at anything, but he does bring things no one else in our D or our prospect pool bring. He doesn't just hit here and there, he's the only one who's really physical on opposing forwards. Johnson is the only other one that actually muscles other players a bit, but no one would really describe him as physical. He's had a bit of a rough start with minors this year and in the playoffs last year, but he's nowhere near as bad as some people are trying to make him out to be. He had whole 25 minors last year, that's not bad at all. Although, honestly, I'm surprised how often he gets away with interference. I swear he should be called at least once a game, because he makes contact long enough after the forward has chipped the puck past him. 44DD definitely isn't on par with him and doesn't bring the same kind of game anyway. You can't just dump NHL players, especially an effective (debatable, I suppose), physical 3rd pairing d-man when you have no one to replace him.

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Old
10-28-2011, 08:45 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
I don't understand those making different D pairs that don't keep the Jack - Scuds pairing together. They've been our best pairing by far. Keep the top 4 the same. I'd prefer they'd rotate A-Mart, Voynov, and Greene as the 3rd pair but we know that won't happen even if Greene is our biggest liability on the ice. It will suck if they send Voynov down though. I'd prefer they keep him up. If he falters, send him back down. If he keeps up the strong play, it's a good problem to have.
Because that is the only pair that is left-left.

Johnson is playing on his "off" side with Scuderi. Doughty, Greene and Voynov are all righties. Drewiske, Martinez, Mitchell, Johnson and Scuderi are lefties.

You could always go back to the Scuderi-Doughty pair, which was a solid pair. Keep Mitchell and Voynov together since it is working. Then you have Johnson-Greene, which has been a disaster in the past. But Johnson has improved his defensive play since they were a pair. With Doughty coming back, who knows which Johnson the Kings will get. Johnson was a beast last year when Doughty was out, the Kings need both of them to play at a high level when both are healthy.

Right now, Martinez-Greene is a bad pair because Martinez has regressed in his transition game defense. Martinez just doesn't seem to have the same confidence this year, he was hesitant on the ice last night. He also failed to keep some pucks in the offensive zone that resulted in transition attacks against and Greene is not good at defending transitions.

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Old
10-28-2011, 09:11 AM
  #139
Capn Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
It only took Voinov one game to:

Lead the NHL in goals by a rookie defenseman...
Tie for the NHL lead in points by a rookie defenseman...
Equal the NHL lead in +/- by rookie defensmen....

Despite only playing 5 games.

He also had last night's game-winning-goal, no? What's the stat for game-winning-goals by a rookie?

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Old
10-28-2011, 09:56 AM
  #140
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You guys are hilarious. If it's not Brown, it's Greene, or Richards, I swear you guys have to ***** and moan for the sake of *****ing and moaning. Gone are the days when this team sucked and we actually had whipping boys, hi Modry 1st tour and Joe Corvo, get out of that mindset ladies and gentlemen, although I never see the ladies *****ing.

As far as the defense goes, KISS. Keep it simple stupid.

Doughty, Greene and Voynov are all righties. Mitchell, Johnson and Scuderi are lefties. Mix and match as necessary. Sit Drewiske since he is the super superb wonderfully awesome press box seat warmer and trade Martinez for offensive depth. Muzzin and Hickey are easy callups and there is a plethora of veteran NHL/AHL depth defensemen out there that can be had for cheap.

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10-28-2011, 10:02 AM
  #141
Gentle Ben Kenobi
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Originally Posted by Rod Buskas View Post
does anyone think anyone is actually going to claim Drewiske ? You all are acting like it's a given.
It is.

Rumor has it that before Sturm
Was acquired that a deal was set up for Drewiske for Fleishman before Colorado outbid us at the last minute.

You don't think a team like Columbus would be all over Drewiske?

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10-28-2011, 10:44 AM
  #142
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Doubt Drewsike clears waivers with the shortage of young defensemen. DD44 would be a roster D in lots of teams in the league. It's a bad idea to just throw a player away at this point in the season. Even a late pick return should be gained. Anything.

I'm a huge Slava fan like many others here, but we also have to remember it was one huge game. He's played decent or well in all, but he's not the second coming of Doughty yet. A-Mart has also played well. If it were me, I'd send VV down to re-evaluate and field offers from the league for A-mart. Maybe even send A mart down a while to re-evaluate VV. One of them is going to have to go eventually I think.

As for Greene, I think we have to keep him. He makes boneheaded plays but he's big and intimidating for a lot of forwards around the league. Keeps guys out of the crease. Rest of our D doesn't bring that. It sucks, but it's true.

I wonder if we can get a solid RW+veteran stay at home D for A-Mart and Greene. Maybe that's switching out too many at once though.

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10-28-2011, 11:00 AM
  #143
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It's a conundrum. The bottom line is the team struggles on offense, and we haven't been getting production from our blueline, and now we have a kid that can produce, but have to lose someone to keep him. The bottom line for me is Voynov has outperformed Martinez while playing in less games on a team that is struggling to score. Though, Martinez hasn't been terrible and will likely rebound, he has created a few chances. Next season looks really bright as we will have the ability to roll out Johnson-Doughty, and then have Voynov and Martinez bring up the bottom section, or flip Martinez and let another kid come up the ranks like we did with Quicney. Still, it is a nice situation to be in, but boy could we use him now rather than a year from now... Especially given the fact that we are already burning years off of Voynov's ELC.

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Old
10-28-2011, 11:01 AM
  #144
Frolov 6'3
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Originally Posted by Rod Buskas View Post
does anyone think anyone is actually going to claim Drewiske ? You all are acting like it's a given.
That's what I'm asking myself too. I have my doubts.

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10-28-2011, 11:06 AM
  #145
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That's what I'm asking myself too. I have my doubts.
A team like Columbus would snatch him up. Or Edmonton. Their D core's are not that good. Davis would be starting on those teams. There are plenty of teams that would take him off waivers.

He is a serviceable D man (with a little upside).

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10-28-2011, 11:09 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
It is.

Rumor has it that before Sturm
Was acquired that a deal was set up for Drewiske for Fleishman before Colorado outbid us at the last minute.

You don't think a team like Columbus would be all over Drewiske?
I don't

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10-28-2011, 11:11 AM
  #147
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I know everyone is all gaga over Voynov this morning, but I think everyone forgot about him getting BURNED by Benn 1 on 1 giving Benn a partial breakaway in the first period. Had Benn scored on that play, I guarantee you everyone would be saying Voynov needs to go back to Manch and work on his defense. Funny how a simple missed shot can make people forget something even happened.

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10-28-2011, 11:15 AM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
I know everyone is all gaga over Voynov this morning, but I think everyone forgot about him getting BURNED by Benn 1 on 1 giving Benn a partial breakaway in the first period. Had Benn scored on that play, I guarantee you everyone would be saying Voynov needs to go back to Manch and work on his defense. Funny how a simple missed shot can make people forget something even happened.
Everyone gets burned. especially by Benn. Need I bring up Doughty's history with Benn?





'nuff said.

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10-28-2011, 11:22 AM
  #149
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trade Martinez for offensive depth.
It would seem pretty foolish to jettison Martinez just becasue Voynov has had a good 5 game stretch.

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Old
10-28-2011, 11:23 AM
  #150
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it's hard not to get overly excited over a prospect we never seen, but we have to remember it's only 5 games. we can't extrapolate a career from this.

Citation: Jared Aulin

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