Last thread hit 1k. Last bunch of posts from the past thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder
You might be best served taking your own advice.
Phoenix's management continuously does something that drives young players away.
Mueller, Wheeler, Turris, Tikhonov.
These are nice young players, who at the time, did everything in their power to get out of playing for Phoenix.
And I also don't think it's Tippett too. This was a guy who coached the stars from 2002-2009. If we look post lockout, so 2005-2009, he's developed quite a few quality players.
Jussi Jokenin becomes a 60 point player under him coming straight from Sm-Liga.
Mike Riberio under him became a PPG, after his departure, has gone back to Habs form.
He developed(or atleast helped along) guys like Eriksson, James Neal, and Fristic.
Is he a hard ass? Definitely, but this is a guy who gets the most out of his vets and young players, and develops them fine.
I also don't buy the fact that it's a minutes issue. I mean, I'm sure they're saying that as an official reason, but this is a team who brought in Daymond freaking Langkow to help them at C. He's getting minutes right now, I highly doubt Turris wouldn't have gotten minutes.
If anything, I believe it's management. Now it could be that they chose 4 guys with attitude issues, sure, but at the same time, It's hard to have 4 coincidences like that in a row.
For example, before Tambo, we were upto what, 3-4 guys who wanted out under Lowe? Now it could be every single one of those guys had a bad attitude, but at the same time, it was pretty evident Kevin Lowe was definitely causing some sort of problem which made players want out. Hence him bringing in Tambo.
That's how I view Turris' situation. Their management is either asking players to take a paycut or something to severe, that they don't want to play there.
Now with that said, I don't think Turris is the guy you give up Ganger for. Everyone knows I'm not the biggest Gagner fan, but Turris is too much of a ? at this point to give up a guy like Gagner for him. He's a guy who's development has been screwed around at this point way too much. His AHL numbers aren't exactly stellar, and his development path hasn't exactly made sense (seriously, 63 games in the NHL, and THEN they decide to put him for a season in the AHL?). Sure he had 3 points in 4 games in the playoffs, but thats 4 points. Who knows if he's the same player or was just playing above his head.
If your completely hell bent on getting Turris, and want it to center around Gagner (and there is no way in hell both of those guys should be in your top-6 if you want to compete for a playoff spot), then you get them to add.
By add, I mean you target a guy who could help your rebuild in some other place. Realistically, the only one guy who fits that is Brandon Gormley. He was a guy I wanted from his draft. The guy is an absolute stud. He oozes hockey sense out of every pore in his body. I'm sure he'll be a top-pairing guy in the NHL, and he has every tool you want from a guy in the backend. He does it all too. Quite the prospect.
If you want a trade around Turris, you get them to add a guy like Gormley to the package, even if it means you have to add something else too.
Now if you do get Turris, understand that he wont come in and play C right away. The guy has tools, but right now his tool box has been destroyed by a two-by-four.
You put him on a line with the C being a guy like Belanger or Horcoff, and you let them mentor him about what the other parts of being a C includes. In return, you let him harness his offensive game, while learning his defensive game.
I'm not sure how much I like taking a flyer on Turris, due to his development, coming out, he was seen as a terrific prospect, but Phoenix ****ed that up pretty bad, so it's a risk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus
Just to touch on this point.
It was likely more Mact than Lowe if you look at all the stuff that went down in that decade.
-The rumors of the locker room split in the early 00s when he first took over
-The Comrie fiasco and subsequent reconcilliation a month after Mact was fired despite Lowe still being around
-The unprofessional conduct towards various players in the media(going for Penner's contract, dumping on Schremp, even Pitkanen was publicly called a liar about a knee injury)
-recent comments from Souray about being called out sarcasticly by the coach for not playing with an injured shoulder day 1 of training camp just after signing his contract
-the locker room split that ultimately led to Mact leaving
Not to say Lowe isn't at fault. When there are long standing issues with unhappy highly paid talent and you are more loyal to your buddy in an expendable position, then you are just as culpable.
I do agree there are issues with Phx's management there with younger players though. But I suspect it's a combination of issues for Turris, possibly ice time, management, unstable ownership situation, and maybe even a locker room that could be un-friendly to younger players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxel
IMO Turris > Gagner long term. I think Gagner is a decent player (who is playing like CRAP right now).
Regarding the $4M/yr demands. I don't think that has been reported by the mainstream media. Sounds like Turris just wanted out for a while.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon
I'm betting Omark will be traded somewhere in the next few weeks-months. I don't think he's a guy that will take well to doing excessive time in the pressbox or will like going to the AHL again for an extended stretch.
Omark is sitting in Edmonton and Franson is sitting in TO. A potential transaction there seems pretty much perfect.
Something like Omark for Franson is a real possibility and would be a decent fit for both teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder
I honestly don't see what you guys see in Franson. He sucks.
Also Tarus, you make some really good points. I think I'll concede that it was 50-50 with regards to MacT and Lowe.
Lowe was always brash and upfront to the media, and with the absolute shocking number of guys who wanted out after playing here, I always thought he had a big hand in that. I could def see MacT though. 50-50 probably seems right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxel
Yeah, seen bits and pieces of Franson's play. Brutal. Must. Avoid. At. All. Costs. I doubt he sticks in the NHL long-term.
I feel Harski would be more useful to this team than Omark. Personally I'd trade Omark for a 2nd (or a 1st-2nd swap like Omark + 2nd for a late first).
Although the lack of scoring is slightly worrisome. Maybe we have too many grinders and not enough playmakers/shooters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_80
Turris sucks. He's Phoenex's version of Gagner. Not good enough for a top 6 role, completely useless in the bottom 6 role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_80
I'd take a chance on Turris for Omark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree but Franson is a young decent offensive type dman. The Oilers don't have a lot of those.
Petry is one but he's sitting in OKC "developing". He should be up with the Oilers doing his thing.
Omark is a wasting asset in the pressbox and whether you like him or hate him... you pretty much know the writing is on the wall that he's on his way out of the organization. Renney doesn't seem to like him much and I think they'd rather go with more defensively responsible players on the 3rd line.
If/when Hemsky gets healthy... that's 1 more body in front of Omark in the roster. I'm actually somewhat a fan of Omark but I just don't see a spot for him on the team with the direction they are headed ... too much of a logjam among the forwards as it is and you have a feeling they'd rather have a guy like Hartikainen up in the lineup as well before Omark.
Personally I'd play MPS-Lander-Omark together and see what they can do. My gut feeling is they'd make something happen with the potential chemistry they'd have together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStig
it is interesting with Omark his has a clause in his contract that if he is sent down he can head back to europe(according to the oilers pregame show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo
The Oilers should risk that with Omark. If he wants to take his ball and go home then so be it.
I doubt that there's a market for him via the trade route.
I suppose it is a bit off topic but I still think it may be relevant as for what the options are if Omark doesn't earn back a spot on the team.
Omark's comments in an interview to a locla news paper up north in Sweden:
(how he feels about not playing)
- Of course I am frustrated, I want to play.
- There's not much I can do about it, I just have accept their explanation (for not playing him).
- I have talked to the coach and he had no specific explanation. He said that the competition for spots is tough and he was happy with me. (what he does when others prepare for games)
- I get to do some extra training every day. (about that he has still not gotten any indication from coach that he would be heading to OKC)
- I will not go the AHL anyway, there's no way. (about coming back playing in the SEL)
- That is not an issue, I do not want to play in Europe.
- ... but I guess never say never. If things continue as they are now all season then... but right now I am focused on staying here. (about his form)
- Better than ever.
- But you play hockey to play hockey, not to watch from the side.
Basically what I get from this is that he will either regain his spot on the roster or, if not, definitely be traded. If sent to OKC he will use his out clause and go to Europe (I gather that he was more definite on the no way to AHL than the no way to Europe).
Just for the record, the article was very confusing (I had to interpret a bit), either the reporter is some kind of kid intern or Omark was drunk when he replied these questions...
Phoenix's management continuously does something that drives young players away. Mueller, Wheeler, Turris, Tikhonov.
I don't know... To me that just looks like a list of players that shouldn't have been drafted as high as they were, which makes me think maybe their expectations for themselves got a little out of control. Boedker and Yandle etc. seem to be doing quite well.
I don't know... To me that just looks like a list of players that shouldn't have been drafted as high as they were, which makes me think maybe their expectations for themselves got a little out of control. Boedker and Yandle etc. seem to be doing quite well.
I don't know Mueller proved that he had the talent when he left. And Wheeler's found himself a pretty decent role now.
I think Wideman is a UFA after this season. He looked dangerous all night last night. I wouldn't mind offering him a deal. He would come cheaper than all the rest of the high profile guys....
I think Wideman is a UFA after this season. He looked dangerous all night last night. I wouldn't mind offering him a deal. He would come cheaper than all the rest of the high profile guys....
I don't know how cheap he'll come. Looking at last years group I'm sure he'll be around 5mil a year. I wanted him for awhile, but if he continues his play he could very well be staying in WSH and Green could be dealt.
I don't know how cheap he'll come. Looking at last years group I'm sure he'll be around 5mil a year. I wanted him for awhile, but if he continues his play he could very well be staying in WSH and Green could be dealt.
I highly doubt Washington keeps Wideman over Green.
This was on the main board in the Turris thread, I thought it was interesting.
What do you guys think?
Edm-
Ellis
Nsh-
Turris
Phx-
Gagner
Definitely interesting. What are other people's take on Ellis? 5'10 isn't the biggest guy in the world, but not exactly tiny either. Draft profiles say he is an offensive d-man but solid in his own end. Anyone see him play?
Definitely interesting. What are other people's take on Ellis? 5'10 isn't the biggest guy in the world, but not exactly tiny either. Draft profiles say he is an offensive d-man but solid in his own end. Anyone see him play?
hes played in 3 (count them three) WJC for canada, and was captain at the last one...
The way i see it is the Oilers are caught with too many players of the same mold and not enough places to slot them in.
Hall / RNH / Eberle
Smyth / Horcoff / Hemsky
Those are our top 2 lines. Hopefully Hemsky when he comes back is fully ready.
Now The bottom lines are the ones that need some serious adjustment.
PRV / Belanger / Ganger/Omark/Jones
-Omark He's been given enough chances to succeed with the Oilers but again he doesn't belong in the checking/energy role
- Gagner He's coming of a ankle sprain as well as trying to learn to play a new position that I believe he isn't suited to play
- PRV Plays well defensively, But he's challenged Offensively and Does not inject alot of energy into the line up
- Jones Is a good 3/4 rw. the problem I see right now is he has trouble to balance between playing Offence and Defence at the same time. Right now he's been playing on a shut-down line that is also trying to produce offensively. When Hemsky comes back I believe we will see a better player when he is given a defined roll.
Petrell / Lander / Eager
Has been a nice mix for a 4th line but would like to see them get more minutes.
What I would like to see are the following lines
Hall / RNH / Eberle
Smyth / Horcoff / Hemsky
Harti / Belanger / Jones
Petrell/Hordichuck / Lander / Eager
I believe this line up will 1 generate more offensive chances as well as keep the energy flowing throughout the game. There has been too many games where when the other teams start throwing the body Oilers end up becoming passive.
I know everyone is going to freak out about leaving PRV out of the line up. The fact is he is just a kid. Sending him down to OKC would benefit him to regain some confidence in his offensive play and maybe force him to be more physical.
Omark has been tried up and down the lineup. He needs to go down to OKC to remember howto be a dynamic player again. Get him on the 1st line without being shadowed by the kids nor hemsky. Let him be hemsky's fill in a few games here and there when either Hemsky gets hurt or is feeling sore.
Gagner well Its hard to say what to do with him. He has no where to go but now hes being asked to learn after 4 years in the NHL to be a winger. Im not honestly sure what to do.
I wonder if the time is right to try and wow Nashville with a deal for Shea Weber, they can't score, and could clearly use some talent up front. Why not go big or go home.
To Nas: PRV, Gagner, Petry and Barker
To Edm: Weber, Erat and Laako
Most of it's obvious, I'll explain some of the other parts.
Erat is a cap move saving the team some money now and in the future, the "poison pill" for the Oilers, not so awful imo.
Barker is an NHL defenseman, and would generally improve the depth in Nashville, along with Petry, and he has an expiring contract so it's not a long term commitment for the Preds
Laako comes back to create more space on the Preds blueline, and to help out OKC.
I think it could work, and I realize it's a big move to make, but Weber, who should them be given an 8 to 10 year extension, would make this team ridiculous.
I wonder if the time is right to try and wow Nashville with a deal for Shea Weber, they can't score, and could clearly use some talent up front. Why not go big or go home.
To Nas: PRV, Gagner, Petry and Barker
To Edm: Weber, Erat and Laako
Most of it's obvious, I'll explain some of the other parts.
Erat is a cap move saving the team some money now and in the future, the "poison pill" for the Oilers, not so awful imo.
Barker is an NHL defenseman, and would generally improve the depth in Nashville, along with Petry, and he has an expiring contract so it's not a long term commitment for the Preds
Laako comes back to create more space on the Preds blueline, and to help out OKC.
I think it could work, and I realize it's a big move to make, but Weber, who should them be given an 8 to 10 year extension, would make this team ridiculous.
That would be an awesome play. Then i personally would look to his partner in the offseason.
That would be an awesome play. Then i personally would look to his partner in the offseason.
Trading for one of them, I'm not too concerned which one, is clearly the better tack to take, to just expect Suter to go UFA and then sign him is a VERY BAD plan, get one in your fold asap and then extend them.
I wonder if the time is right to try and wow Nashville with a deal for Shea Weber, they can't score, and could clearly use some talent up front. Why not go big or go home.
To Nas: PRV, Gagner, Petry and Barker
To Edm: Weber, Erat and Laako
Most of it's obvious, I'll explain some of the other parts.
Erat is a cap move saving the team some money now and in the future, the "poison pill" for the Oilers, not so awful imo.
Barker is an NHL defenseman, and would generally improve the depth in Nashville, along with Petry, and he has an expiring contract so it's not a long term commitment for the Preds
Laako comes back to create more space on the Preds blueline, and to help out OKC.
I think it could work, and I realize it's a big move to make, but Weber, who should them be given an 8 to 10 year extension, would make this team ridiculous.
