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Enroth again superb but Miller's # 1

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Old
10-28-2011, 11:28 AM
  #26
haseoke39
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Originally Posted by ImpressedDAHagent View Post
yeah but if we perform well in the playoffs (which is almost certain with miller), people will remember him being a franchise player. Enroth hasn't been so good that he has looked better then miller at his best. The trade idea was brought out mainly last year and that was because we had an awful defense. Enroth has looked good.

I would have rather read an article from bucky about all the potential shooting and passing skill on offense with the right chemistry. Of course that would require imaginative inspiration.
It's "almost certain" that a team that hasn't been out of the first round over the last 4 years is going to perform well in the playoffs?

And furthermore, even if we win the cup, that playoff success is just a factor in the decision-making process. People's fondness for Miller as being a "franchise player" doesn't win any more games.

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10-28-2011, 11:28 AM
  #27
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Lol, I love how some fans have gone from Ruff needs to rest Miller more so he's ready for the playoffs to the Sabres need to trade Miller away because Enroth can (apparently) play 70 consecutive games better than Miller can. Lol.

Any goaltender with the number of starts that Miller has had in his career has had bad games. Enroth is not mystical. He's not TT + Hasek reborn. He's a good goaltender at the start of his NHL career.
But what if 11-3-2 becomes 19-5-3? Would be pretty mystical. Don't the Miller-ites use his total wins as the end-all and be-all for his greatness?

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10-28-2011, 11:28 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
I wish there was one. There should be one.
Why? So message boards can get more traffic? So WGR can get more callers?

Fans can whine and moan all they want. The second that has any affect on what players a coach plays, that coach should be instantly fired.

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10-28-2011, 11:30 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
It's "almost certain" that a team that hasn't been out of the first round over the last 4 years is going to perform well in the playoffs?

And furthermore, even if we win the cup, that playoff success is just a factor in the decision-making process. People's fondness for Miller as being a "franchise player" doesn't win any more games.
Neither does people's fondness for Enroth.

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10-28-2011, 11:32 AM
  #30
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Neither does people's fondness for Enroth.
That's right!

I don't know if that was supposed to be a rebuttal of something or not.

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10-28-2011, 11:35 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
That's right!

I don't know if that was supposed to be a rebuttal of something or not.
No, just a comment.

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10-28-2011, 11:39 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
But what if 11-3-2 becomes 19-5-3? Would be pretty mystical. Don't the Miller-ites use his total wins as the end-all and be-all for his greatness?
I honestly don't know -- I'm not a Miller fan boy. I think he's a good goaltender who can be a great goaltender when his game is on. His Vezina year wasn't a fluke; he can be that good. Will he be that good again? I dunno.

I just think it's premature and a bit twitchy to be all in for Enroth as more than a great backup just yet.

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10-28-2011, 11:41 AM
  #33
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Funny thing is, the "fans" that scream and yell and demand that Enroth gets a bunch of starts over Miller, are the same ones who will scream and yell that Enroth sucks when he goes 4-6 over a 10 game stretch

At this point Enroth is effective and has played well with the occasional game. He may completely meltdown if he needs to play 10+ games in a row. He may not, but I don't want to find that out in the regular season when the team is fighting for points and where the main goal is to win the cup. Miller is proven, and yes at this point and the forseeable future, is better than Enroth.

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10-28-2011, 11:44 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
It's "almost certain" that a team that hasn't been out of the first round over the last 4 years is going to perform well in the playoffs?

And furthermore, even if we win the cup, that playoff success is just a factor in the decision-making process. People's fondness for Miller as being a "franchise player" doesn't win any more games.
yeah but your stats are not characteristic enough towards the success and failure of the team. At least one of those seasons was the 08 draft. why bother using that as some kind of failed statistic?

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10-28-2011, 11:56 AM
  #35
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What a wonderful problem to have.
Bingo.

For some people, the grass is always greener, though.

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10-28-2011, 12:01 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ImpressedDAHagent View Post
yeah but your stats are not characteristic enough towards the success and failure of the team. At least one of those seasons was the 08 draft. why bother using that as some kind of failed statistic?
Because all of your core forwards and your starting goaltender were the same. i know they're a much better team now on defense and with some of their supporting wingers, but it's a far cry from a sure thing that this team even makes it out of the first round this year.

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10-28-2011, 12:07 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Because all of your core forwards and your starting goaltender were the same. i know they're a much better team now on defense and with some of their supporting wingers, but it's a far cry from a sure thing that this team even makes it out of the first round this year.
To play devil's advocate, even if we disregard Leino as a big factor right now (which well might change by April), we did add two legitimate top 4 defensemen. That's pretty substantial.

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10-28-2011, 12:09 PM
  #38
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Enroth is the reason we're gonna win the division. Miller is the reason we're gonna advance a round or two in the playoffs.

There is no conflict here, just an amazing goalie tandem.

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10-28-2011, 12:11 PM
  #39
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Look, here's the rationally optimistic Sabres fan's view of how to handle Enroth:

- Get the kid his 25 games this year, get a rested Miller down the stretch and into the playoffs. Maybe Miller gets another Vezina, maybe the team makes a run. That would be great.

- If Enroth plays over the next 23 games like he's played over the last 17, you give him a shot as more of a #1B next year, maybe get him between 30-35 games.

- If, after the kid has really grown in the NHL for 2.5 seasons, you can see he's a #1 goalie in the NHL, then you have to trade one of them. You don't have a choice - one will demand it, and your team will be better with another great player on the ice every night, rather than a great goaltender on the bench every night.

You make the best decision when the time comes. If Ryan Miller is riding two Vezina caliber years, maybe you trade Enroth no matter what her gets you.

If at any point from here to there, Enroth shows he's a scrub, press restart and laugh at this thread later. Done.

In conclusion, the only reason this is relevant NOW is that, taking the long view, you have to make sure you're giving Enroth the chance to develop into that #1 goalie, rather than giving him no room to play behind Miller (which would probably be Ruff's natural tendency). The worst thing you could do is be so sworn for life to Miller that you don't let this other kid develop his potential.

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10-28-2011, 12:18 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clock View Post
Bingo.

For some people, the grass is always greener, though.
Remember, Thibault, then LaLame... how many L's we came from poor back up goal tending and the constant threat of a Miller injury derailing the season.

Now we have the perfect situation... and somehow its an issue.

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10-28-2011, 12:23 PM
  #41
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My initial reaction to the thread/article title was "No ****, Sherlock".

I think people would be singing a different tune if Enroth was playing night in and night out.

We've seen him do well in 2 spot starts. But last season, he was highly inconsistent--the only difference (which I will fully admit is 1 very, very, very huge difference) between Enroth and Lalime is the team in front of him played with about 1000x more confidence with Enroth in net and gave him goal support when he needed it. And Enroth's AHL stats--where he was the fulltime starter--don't paint a very inspiring picture either.

I think if Enroth was the starter and Miller was traded, people would be regretting that decision just a couple months into the season. We know Miller can handle the heavy workload--and do it well. We don't have any reason to believe Enroth can do the same.

What I do feel confident in saying is, he can provide this team with solid goaltending in those spot situations to give Miller rest. And we no longer have to writeoff backup games as losses. Enrot's going to have to show me more at this level to convince me he's starter material.

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10-28-2011, 12:23 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Look, here's the rationally optimistic Sabres fan's view of how to handle Enroth:

- Get the kid his 25 games this year, get a rested Miller down the stretch and into the playoffs. Maybe Miller gets another Vezina, maybe the team makes a run. That would be great.

- If Enroth plays over the next 23 games like he's played over the last 17, you give him a shot as more of a #1B next year, maybe get him between 30-35 games.

- If, after the kid has really grown in the NHL for 2.5 seasons, you can see he's a #1 goalie in the NHL, then you have to trade one of them. You don't have a choice - one will demand it, and your team will be better with another great player on the ice every night, rather than a great goaltender on the bench every night.

You make the best decision when the time comes. If Ryan Miller is riding two Vezina caliber years, maybe you trade Enroth no matter what her gets you.

If at any point from here to there, Enroth shows he's a scrub, press restart and laugh at this thread later. Done.

In conclusion, the only reason this is relevant NOW is that, taking the long view, you have to make sure you're giving Enroth the chance to develop into that #1 goalie, rather than giving him no room to play behind Miller (which would probably be Ruff's natural tendency). The worst thing you could do is be so sworn for life to Miller that you don't let this other kid develop his potential.
For sure.

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10-28-2011, 12:37 PM
  #43
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The only thing I'm legitimately concerned about for this year is that Lindy actually sticks to the schedule and actually gets Enroth his 25 games. If, with regular rest, Ryan Miller plays un-****ing-believeable: GOOD! That's what's supposed to happen! Sit his ass down and get him some more!

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10-28-2011, 12:41 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
The only thing I'm legitimately concerned about for this year is that Lindy actually sticks to the schedule and actually gets Enroth his 25 games. If, with regular rest, Ryan Miller plays un-****ing-believeable: GOOD! That's what's supposed to happen! Sit his ass down and get him some more!
I think it will happen. 20-25 games most likely. Of course, it's easy to do when we're winning 2/3rds of our games. If we go through a rough patch we'll see how dedicated Ruff is to getting Enroth his starts.

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10-28-2011, 12:42 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Look, here's the rationally optimistic Sabres fan's view of how to handle Enroth:

- Get the kid his 25 games this year, get a rested Miller down the stretch and into the playoffs. Maybe Miller gets another Vezina, maybe the team makes a run. That would be great.

- If Enroth plays over the next 23 games like he's played over the last 17, you give him a shot as more of a #1B next year, maybe get him between 30-35 games.

- If, after the kid has really grown in the NHL for 2.5 seasons, you can see he's a #1 goalie in the NHL, then you have to trade one of them. You don't have a choice - one will demand it, and your team will be better with another great player on the ice every night, rather than a great goaltender on the bench every night.

You make the best decision when the time comes. If Ryan Miller is riding two Vezina caliber years, maybe you trade Enroth no matter what her gets you.

If at any point from here to there, Enroth shows he's a scrub, press restart and laugh at this thread later. Done.

In conclusion, the only reason this is relevant NOW is that, taking the long view, you have to make sure you're giving Enroth the chance to develop into that #1 goalie, rather than giving him no room to play behind Miller (which would probably be Ruff's natural tendency). The worst thing you could do is be so sworn for life to Miller that you don't let this other kid develop his potential.
Well, you do have a choice (see: Vancouver with Luongo/Schneider and L.A. with Quick/Bernier to name but two). Enroth is the clear back-up in Buffalo and will be for Miller's entire tenure.

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10-28-2011, 01:11 PM
  #46
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it's great to have a real back up.

****ing great

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10-28-2011, 01:11 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Well, you do have a choice (see: Vancouver with Luongo/Schneider and L.A. with Quick/Bernier to name but two). Enroth is the clear back-up in Buffalo and will be for Miller's entire tenure.

We'll see. I figure the kid's got a shot to be as good as Miller someday. At age 23, Miller was playing in the AHL with a handful of call-ups a year (which weren't that great). Swearing yourself to Miller is fine for the next couple of years, but you gotta keep an open mind if you want to best netminder in Buffalo for as long as possible.

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10-28-2011, 01:20 PM
  #48
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My initial reaction to the thread/article title was "No ****, Sherlock".

Its funny that you say that, i was thinking the same exact thing.

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10-28-2011, 01:25 PM
  #49
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wait, who has called for Miller to be traded??

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10-28-2011, 01:28 PM
  #50
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If you don't love Enroth you need to evaluate yourself. Awesome guy, awesome player.

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