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Neepawa Natives hazing scandal

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10-28-2011, 06:12 PM
  #1
Jet
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Neepawa Natives hazing scandal

I'm sure you have all heard about this over the past couple of days.

Now, coaches are resigning, sponsors are pulling ads, the town is threatening to pull funding. The very survival of the team in Neepawa is in question.

I have gone through the hazing, as have many others on these boards. I am a bit old fashioned I guess, but I don't see harm in it as long as there is no physical damage to a kid, and no adults are involved. I actually have always thought it helps with team building, as everyone goes through it. It's not like bullying, where just kids who are different have to endure it. I do however realize that times have changed.

What do you guys think? Is this incident being overblown? It has happened in hockey for a very long time. Do you think it's just a matter of the mainstream media getting a hold of it and people who have no idea this happens in sport finding out?

Please guys, keep in mind this is a public, family friendly board. Do not go into specifics about what happened in the hazing rituals. If someone has to know, they can look it up or you can PM them. Thanks!

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10-28-2011, 06:15 PM
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Hammer Slammer
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I thought the incident was disgusting actually. When you hear the details, you think - why? Hazing is fine but to take it to that extreme is just... no. If I was the kid I would've just left the team right then and there instead of afterwards.

That's just me though, maybe. This one was extreme.

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10-28-2011, 06:18 PM
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Jet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer Slammer View Post
I thought the incident was disgusting actually. When you hear the details, you think - why? Hazing is fine but to take it to that extreme is just... no. If I was the kid I would've just left the team right then and there instead of afterwards.
If I can ask, did you play organized sports at a teen level?

Just wondering what you were exposed to growing up.

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10-28-2011, 06:21 PM
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Hammer Slammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
If I can ask, did you play organized sports at a teen level?

Just wondering what you were exposed to growing up.
I was, I played until I was 19. Maybe it's just that I was a 6'3 230lb defenceman that no one tried to get me to do any of that stuff. Don't recall any of the other guys doing any hazing though. Maybe that was just my team. My hockey career was pleasant until I quit because the coach was teaching us to follow through with our slapshots so we could try and spear someone in the upper body/throat. I told him that was the most disgusting thing I'd ever heard and walked out of practice.

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10-28-2011, 06:27 PM
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Well, like I said, I didn't think too much of the hazing. I was mortified as a rookie but got over it quickly. A friend of mine who is significantly younger than me and played MJHL however refused to do the hazing and actually ended up quitting hockey altogether (he also had a concussion but said the hazing situation and his refusal to participate was a contributing factor). He is a hell of a hockey player too, so it's kind of sad.

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10-28-2011, 06:31 PM
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i played hockey till i was 18, never junior but obv know a lot of kids who did and have friends who did and frankly i alway found the hazing stories and **** i heard pretty homosexually driven, like whats up with these kids. the whole chewing tobacco wheeling broads thing. i never got.

but then again i dont wear hollister and american eagle.

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10-28-2011, 06:34 PM
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Well, like I said, I didn't think too much of the hazing. I was mortified as a rookie but got over it quickly. A friend of mine who is significantly younger than me and played MJHL however refused to do the hazing and actually ended up quitting hockey altogether (he also had a concussion but said the hazing situation and his refusal to participate was a contributing factor). He is a hell of a hockey player too, so it's kind of sad.
ok, just to confirm, you see no problem with this hazing, yet you have a friend who quit hockey with the hazing playing a part...

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmk makes sense

#logicftw

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10-28-2011, 06:35 PM
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I think there's something to be said, from a team-building aspect, for some of the mild "hazing" rituals I experienced or heard about in my early teens. They were harmless, silly kid things -- you know, having to drink the grossest blended smoothie in the world, or wearing a goofy outfit in public.

But when hazing rituals cross the line into exercises of physical or sexual humiliation and dominance, it's no longer an act of team-building, but an act of aggression or flat-out violence.

And when you bear in mind the age difference between some of the players on these teams, that makes it even worse. In this case, we're talking about a 15-year-old boy who was "hazed" either by or under the observation of a number of 19- and 20-year-old men.

Ultimately, not every kid will be scarred by stuff like that. But some will. And frankly, I'm not sure any "team-building" aspects that come out of that would look anything like the type of team I would want to build -- it doesn't seem unifying to me. It seems like intimidation and abuse, especially again given the age differential.

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10-28-2011, 06:39 PM
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I think there's something to be said, from a team-building aspect, for some of the mild "hazing" rituals I experienced or heard about in my early teens. They were harmless, silly kid things -- you know, having to drink the grossest blended smoothie in the world, or wearing a goofy outfit in public.

But when hazing rituals cross the line into exercises of physical or sexual humiliation and dominance, it's no longer an act of team-building, but an act of aggression or flat-out violence.

And when you bear in mind the age difference between some of the players on these teams, that makes it even worse. In this case, we're talking about a 15-year-old boy who was "hazed" either by or under the observation of a number of 19- and 20-year-old men.

Ultimately, not every kid will be scarred by stuff like that. But some will. And frankly, I'm not sure any "team-building" aspects that come out of that would look anything like the type of team I would want to build -- it doesn't seem unifying to me. It seems like intimidation and abuse, especially again given the age differential.
I agree.

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10-28-2011, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Hammer Slammer View Post
I thought the incident was disgusting actually. When you hear the details, you think - why? Hazing is fine but to take it to that extreme is just... no. If I was the kid I would've just left the team right then and there instead of afterwards.

That's just me though, maybe. This one was extreme.
Pretty much this.

There's harmless hazing like drawing on a rookie's face or making them wear a stupid outfit or whatever but I was just disturbed when I first heard about this, way too far imo.

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10-28-2011, 06:42 PM
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Man the hazing that took place is just weird and really homoerotic. While I played the hazing that took place from age 14-22 was mostly fun or full of testosterone. Mainly drinking competitions, fights with just cages and gloves (rookie vs rookie), challenges like rounding up the most christmas ormaments one night and placing them all on one yard the next night. Just boys being boys type fun.

This stuff is just disgusting and what is even more revolting is that it is 18-21 year olds forcing 15-16 year olds to do this stuff. Just Fd right up and wrong. Maybe they are struggling with their sexualities..who knows.

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10-28-2011, 06:44 PM
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I personally have no use for this type of stuff. If it took place in a school people would get fired, charges would be laid, and lives would be ruined. Just imagine if your kid came home from school and reported this kind of treatment at the hands of teachers and older students.

Then imagine he's made to apologize to the teachers and students for tattling on them.

...would you think that was OK?...

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10-28-2011, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ziggy66 View Post
Man the hazing that took place is just weird and really homoerotic.

This stuff is just disgusting and what is even more revolting is that it is 18-21 year olds forcing 15-16 year olds to do this stuff. Just Fd right up and wrong. Maybe they are struggling with their sexualities..who knows.
What Ziggy said!

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10-28-2011, 06:46 PM
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This one crossed the line, the question is what is the line? Everyone has a different comfort level for these things, and the law is another line.

With the deets I'm aware of (the ones out in public) this crossed the legal line. At the least assault, but could cross into sex crimes. This "team building" may end up ruining some kids lives if they get labelled sex offenders.

If that Asst. Coach was really in the room, he`s screwed.

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10-28-2011, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SugarSugar View Post
I think there's something to be said, from a team-building aspect, for some of the mild "hazing" rituals I experienced or heard about in my early teens. They were harmless, silly kid things -- you know, having to drink the grossest blended smoothie in the world, or wearing a goofy outfit in public.

But when hazing rituals cross the line into exercises of physical or sexual humiliation and dominance, it's no longer an act of team-building, but an act of aggression or flat-out violence.

And when you bear in mind the age difference between some of the players on these teams, that makes it even worse. In this case, we're talking about a 15-year-old boy who was "hazed" either by or under the observation of a number of 19- and 20-year-old men.

Ultimately, not every kid will be scarred by stuff like that. But some will. And frankly, I'm not sure any "team-building" aspects that come out of that would look anything like the type of team I would want to build -- it doesn't seem unifying to me. It seems like intimidation and abuse, especially again given the age differential.
Agree and well said. I'm all for the boys being boys, goofy, comical stuff. But when it gets to a certain point, being sexual, there is a line to be drawn, in my opinion.

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10-28-2011, 06:51 PM
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With all due respect Jet, I can't believe you don't see the wrong that has been done.

There is nothing even relatively proper about the hazing rituals that were performed.

For the record, I am NOT a very ethical person. Nor do I have a lot of morals.... But I know when something is wrong dammit.

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10-28-2011, 06:57 PM
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"Please guys, keep in mind this is a public, family friendly board. Do not go into specifics about what happened in the hazing rituals. If someone has to know, they can look it up or you can PM them. Thanks!"
This is public knowledge reported in the mainstream media.

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10-28-2011, 06:58 PM
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This is public knowledge reported in the mainstream media.
Just reiterating what was stated by the Mod in the OP.

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10-28-2011, 07:00 PM
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Just reiterating what was stated by the Mod in the OP.
Thanks. I'll chance it.

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10-28-2011, 07:04 PM
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Maybe we could add a link to the WFP article discussing the specifics of the hazing incident.

That way we don't have to mention the specifics, but anyone who wants to know about details knows where to find them.

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10-28-2011, 07:06 PM
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Maybe we could add a link to the WFP article discussing the specifics of the hazing incident.

That way we don't have to mention the specifics, but anyone who wants to know about details knows where to find them.
Anyone who wants to know about it can just google it. It's not like it's locked away in a vault.

BTW: I think it's disgusting. This is not hazing it's assault. It's the kind of thing that scars people for life.

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10-28-2011, 07:10 PM
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Yup.

It's good that this is a family board with parents and kids visiting. This thread is the perfect excuse to sit down with your kid and explain which things are okay and which things are not. They may be soon going through this in their organization, or already have, and your guidance as a parent is crucial.
Fair enough.

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10-28-2011, 07:16 PM
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A good rule of thumb when trying to figure out when hazing has gone over the line: If it's sufficiently cringe-worthy and sexually charged that you need a general disclaimer, such that even a description of what happened would be considered to be — at a minimum — not safe for work, then it's over the line.

This kind of thing happens all too often around sports at high school and collegiate levels, fraternity organizations, and military in general, and it's completely baffling. Team or organizational bonding is a great idea. It can be tremendously beneficial. Why anyone would believe that team bonding must involve a warped sexual component is hard to figure. You can come up with all kinds of ways to carry out team bonding without sexual humiliation. I can't believe that even needs to be said, but the fact that incidents like this occur (all the time) shows that it's needed.

It's most appalling that the coaches/management, in mentor roles where these kids are concerned, seem most upset that the shroud of silence was broken by the player, and that they later forced the player in question to issue an apology to the rest of the team. It's understandable, if unfortunate, when a group of kids makes recruits and young players undergo this kind of hazing. That it's sanctioned and apparently considered mandatory for everyone by management is a real problem. That club is going to get crucified from top to bottom for it.

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10-28-2011, 07:45 PM
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Hank Chinaski
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I'm pretty close to this whole incident, with both of my parents still living in Neepawa and younger brothers who grew up playing hockey with some players on the team. Though I don't know personally know anyone directly involved in the incident, I do happen to know the specifics about what exactly happened, and how this came to see the light of day. My take on it is:

1) This went far beyond the normal boundaries of hazing, this was cruel and disgusting. The local rags, as expected, left a couple of critical details out of their article.

2) The person who blew the whistle on this was a 3rd party not affiliated with the team or any of the players. This wasn't some attention grab or parent with an axe to grind.

3) The ultimate root of this problem is a lack of leadership and control within the Neepawa Natives organization.

I've never had any first hand experience with hazing, even though I played fairly high-level hockey well into my teens. I've heard plenty of stories, though. It's something that's always going to be a part of the game, but there is a limit to what's acceptable. This went well beyond that limit.

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10-28-2011, 07:55 PM
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Hammer Slammer
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I remember playing minor hockey in Calgary (Bantam) and one of the teams coaches would lock the players in the dressing room with helmets and gloves and they would beat the crap out of one another. Sparked a huge controversy there. Worst I'd ever seen. They were the Vityaz Chekhov of our league.

This takes the cake though.

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