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Neepawa Natives hazing scandal

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Old
10-31-2011, 06:37 PM
  #101
Aerial
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Originally Posted by Gnova View Post
If my son decided to dress up as a native and wore warrior face makeup would that be racist? Or is that okay?

Omg a white man dressed as a black man, he must be rasist. Give me a break.
To answer your hypothetical, yes, that would be an extremely racist (and sadly very common) Halloween costume. One blogger wrote a pretty thorough explanation of why that's so hurtful to so many people here.

To clarify the second, the issue with Torres' costume is not that he "dressed as a black man." It's that he wore blackface, which has a very long history of being used in profoundly racist ways. The makeup wasn't necessary to the costume, and without it this would not have been a controversy.

I don't doubt Torres didn't intend the costume to come across as racist, but intent isn't magical and doesn't negate the fact that he chose to include as part of his costume a symbol (blackface) that has a well-known and longstanding racist history. He is responsible for that choice, and thus too for the reactions he received by making it.

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10-31-2011, 07:35 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SugarSugar View Post
To answer your hypothetical, yes, that would be an extremely racist (and sadly very common) Halloween costume. One blogger wrote a pretty thorough explanation of why that's so hurtful to so many people here.

To clarify the second, the issue with Torres' costume is not that he "dressed as a black man." It's that he wore blackface, which has a very long history of being used in profoundly racist ways. The makeup wasn't necessary to the costume, and without it this would not have been a controversy.

I don't doubt Torres didn't intend the costume to come across as racist, but intent isn't magical and doesn't negate the fact that he chose to include as part of his costume a symbol (blackface) that has a well-known and longstanding racist history. He is responsible for that choice, and thus too for the reactions he received by making it.
What he wore was not the stereotypical "blackface" or anything near it. Anyone making comparisons

I can understand some of the arguement against the Native American costume but I can only concur with it if it showed the culture in a negative way. They don't. Historical dress is okay IMO, even if stylized.

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10-31-2011, 08:12 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarSugar View Post
To answer your hypothetical, yes, that would be an extremely racist (and sadly very common) Halloween costume. One blogger wrote a pretty thorough explanation of why that's so hurtful to so many people here.

To clarify the second, the issue with Torres' costume is not that he "dressed as a black man." It's that he wore blackface, which has a very long history of being used in profoundly racist ways. The makeup wasn't necessary to the costume, and without it this would not have been a controversy.

I don't doubt Torres didn't intend the costume to come across as racist, but intent isn't magical and doesn't negate the fact that he chose to include as part of his costume a symbol (blackface) that has a well-known and longstanding racist history. He is responsible for that choice, and thus too for the reactions he received by making it.
That's ridiculous. So, so, so, so stupid

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10-31-2011, 08:25 PM
  #104
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This is rather a silly "issue".

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10-31-2011, 08:29 PM
  #105
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I know what blackface is, and this wasnt it.

I think we have crossed the line as a society from sensitive to over the top. How else was Torres supposed to dress as his favorite rapper?

I can understand how someone, say of aboriginal descent may find someone dressing up as an Indian might be hurtful, because it caricaturizes their heritage. However, Torres wasn't dressing as an African American, he was dressing as Jay Z. That is the difference.

JMHO

I apologize for helping derail this thread, but I felt like I needed to comment on it.

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10-31-2011, 08:37 PM
  #106
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I don't get that aboriginal thing either..

so if somebody wants to dress up as a pioneer or a viking I have an legit excuse to be offended? What the hell?

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10-31-2011, 09:28 PM
  #107
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Many bizarre utterances in this thread. But indicative of how powerful group-think and mild forms of brainwashing are. No coincidence that the initiation rites (and other aspects) of sports teams are similar to military training...break people down and then build them up.

And of course, the most deviant always warm to things like that and recognize—either consciously or not—that they can use the kind of social pressure that exists within the sub-culture to facilitate their nastiness.

Think of the high-profile cases over the past number of years and a number of former NHL players who were damaged and the scum of the earth who is still walking free. And yes, in discussions about that case, you will sometimes see the victims mocked and ridiculed.

But you will never be able to convince some people, because you see, they are the self-described hard cases who have gone through things like this and then experienced the thrill of being the one in control.

Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that anyone commenting in here has perpetrated any of these kinds of twisted, criminal actions. But even the "what kind of soft society do we live in now where some good old fashioned abuse disguised as just havin' a laugh isn't allowed" crowd, provide cover for the true freaks.

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10-31-2011, 09:34 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
I don't get that aboriginal thing either..

so if somebody wants to dress up as a pioneer or a viking I have an legit excuse to be offended? What the hell?
Some races play the race card so much, it's almost as if they go out of their way to find something even remotely racist.
ANd yes, this can probably be considered racist

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10-31-2011, 10:12 PM
  #109
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This is ridicolous already. I can't believe this thread is not closed yet....at least in comparision to some other threads that get closed after 1-2 posts.

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10-31-2011, 10:15 PM
  #110
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This is ridicolous already. I can't believe this thread is not closed yet....at least in comparision to some other threads that get closed after 1-2 posts.
Why exactly should this thread be closed?

Sure, there have been some heated posts, but the discussion is interesting, and enough people have wanted to comment on it that we left it open.

It's pretty easy, if you don't like the thread content, don't visit the thread. There is a little X at the top right hand corner of the thread description box on the main Jets board. Click that and the thread will disappear from your view forever.

Simple.

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10-31-2011, 10:21 PM
  #111
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Is this the thread about the MJHL Neepawa Natives hazing instance? I'm confused.

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Old
10-31-2011, 11:06 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Gnova View Post
From reading a lot of the comments in this thread I can see that some haven't learned anything from the greasy stain the Graham James added to minor hockey. Shamed silence by the victim is not a solution. Covering up abuse is not a answer.
I'm hoping that the names of the age 18+ players are all released to the public so that they can be the butt of pedophile bondage jokes for years to come.
I too thought of Graham James when this happened. And the Mike Danton case.

The most disturbing aspect of the story was that the coach demanded, and received, an apology from the player.

The MJHL, and other junior leagues, should immediately interview players from all teams about rookie nights to find out what has happened. This whole thing is homosexual S&M. Those who like it and feel entitled to force it on others need to be weeded out of hockey.

BTW, nudity and sexual behaviour was NOT part of initiations back in the day.

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10-31-2011, 11:21 PM
  #113
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I don't see a problem with the makeup. He's just dressing up as a celbrity, it's not as if his costume reflected any negative stereotype. In fact I didn't know about blackface until this year. PC-ness can be really annoying. So now I know if I get a Jack Sparrow costume I'll be racist against people with dreadlocks.




Sorry for the erratic paragraph

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Old
11-01-2011, 12:55 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
Wow, the ignorance is so sadly strong in this thread. Gotta love when non-minorities tell minorities what's racist, like they've ever experienced it.
I was the minority in countries I lived in for more than 10 years. Please don't assume.

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11-01-2011, 08:58 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Gnova View Post
I was the minority in countries I lived in for more than 10 years. Please don't assume.
It's nice that you can go back to your country and not feel like a minority though isn't it?

Some of us don't have that luxury


As for the hazing thing. The team should have handled it and the league. For jeebus sake its not like they were ****** the kid with a broomstick then beating him much ado about nothing.

In the meantime there are people shooting each other out on the streets but they are going to waste god knows how much money and time on this non issue

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11-01-2011, 12:01 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Hollywood3 View Post
I too thought of Graham James when this happened. And the Mike Danton case.

The most disturbing aspect of the story was that the coach demanded, and received, an apology from the player.

The MJHL, and other junior leagues, should immediately interview players from all teams about rookie nights to find out what has happened. This whole thing is homosexual S&M. Those who like it and feel entitled to force it on others need to be weeded out of hockey.

BTW, nudity and sexual behaviour was NOT part of initiations back in the day.
I am not going to get into specifics but this is totally incorrect. Perhaps where you played it wasn't but in many other places it was and still is to this day.

I am not condoning it, I am stating a fact.

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11-01-2011, 12:08 PM
  #118
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Natives aren't going to fold (yet):

Quote:
"I have many conversations daily with their president (Dave McIntosh), and that would be the shock of all shocks if that were to happen," Kim Davis said Monday afternoon on whether the team would fold.

McIntosh also shot down the rumours of the club’s demise. "There’s no truth to it whatsoever, as we speak," the Natives’ president said.

"This has been a tough situation for the hockey club ... but the reality is that we have a hockey team that we’ve committed to our partners in the league we’re going to ice our hockey team for the year," McIntosh added. "I honestly don’t see any reason why we wouldn’t be able to fulfil our obligation to our league partners."

As of this morning, the club’s website is still down.
Hazing victim leaving for Omaha AAA:

Quote:
The youngest victim of the hazing incident – who was drafted as a bantam by the WHL’s Brandon Wheat Kings -- is apparently leaving the country to continue his hockey career.

The player, whose identity is being protected, has decided to go to Nebraska to join the Omaha AAA Hockey club to play for former NHLer David Wilkie in the North American Prospects Hockey League.

"He will be totally out of sight, out of mind and he will be able to concentrate on playing hockey and focusing on playing for the Wheat Kings (in the future)," said Darryl Wolski, an associate who works with agent Gerry Johannson at The Sports Corporation.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...133001483.html

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Old
11-01-2011, 12:11 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
Natives aren't going to fold (yet):



Hazing victim leaving for Omaha AAA:



http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...133001483.html
I still think they may end up folding. I can't see how the community will support the team after that came out.

Good for the youngster, hopefully he can forget about it and continue his development.

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11-01-2011, 12:59 PM
  #120
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I like how they're protecting his identity but tell you exactly what club he's joining.

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11-01-2011, 05:21 PM
  #121
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I like how they're protecting his identity but tell you exactly what club he's joining.
Was thinking the same thing.

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11-01-2011, 06:02 PM
  #122
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Yes, nudity was a part of initiations in the past, I can confirm this. And I heard from a good source from Neepawa that this kid's dad saw a hazing like this take place prior to this incident when he was picking up his son earlier in the week from pracky but it wasn't his son getting hazed. Apparently the dad had a chuckle when he saw the incident happen to another kid. The incident got blown up by the players's girlfriend's father and only then was it a big deal. He knew this was happening but nothing was said till the other parent confronted the coach. Im just stating this from a good source in Neepawa. I know these threads hate rumors and I don't condone this type of hazing behavior but Im just saying there is more to this story than the public really knows.

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11-01-2011, 10:48 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
Yes, nudity was a part of initiations in the past, I can confirm this. And I heard from a good source from Neepawa that this kid's dad saw a hazing like this take place prior to this incident when he was picking up his son earlier in the week from pracky but it wasn't his son getting hazed. Apparently the dad had a chuckle when he saw the incident happen to another kid. The incident got blown up by the players's girlfriend's father and only then was it a big deal. He knew this was happening but nothing was said till the other parent confronted the coach. Im just stating this from a good source in Neepawa. I know these threads hate rumors and I don't condone this type of hazing behavior but Im just saying there is more to this story than the public really knows.
Nudity in hazings may be common-place in the recent past but it is incorrect to act as if this is in any way a normal part of hockey's heritage.

And I don't care if every coach in the country goes to jail. They need to be held accountable. To help, the NHL should state that they do not condone the actions, nor do they done the "cone of silence" treatment. They should in fact state that any coaches involved are not candidates to work in the NHL. They should state that players who participate in a cover up are also not candidates to work in the NHL.

As for how the incident was disclosed (i.e. indirectly through a 3rd party) this is what I am also hearing. In other words, those involved were quite content to cover it up. And that is why outside pressure is required.

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Old
11-02-2011, 02:57 AM
  #124
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Nudity in hazings may be common-place in the recent past but it is incorrect to act as if this is in any way a normal part of hockey's heritage.
.
Also nudity in hazing can't go on in the era of smart phones. You are just asking for trouble in this day and age.
Basically anything that can't be posted on YouTube can't be allowed to happen. The potential for damage is too big.

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11-02-2011, 05:21 AM
  #125
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I am not going to get into specifics but this is totally incorrect. Perhaps where you played it wasn't but in many other places it was and still is to this day.

I am not condoning it, I am stating a fact.
I think it all depended who your team leaders were. I played a few years in Jr and we never had to get naked or do anything sexual like for initiation. I played with a rough crew and I'm pretty sure stuff like that would be termed "homo" by my team leaders for a lack of a better expression. not to sure what is going on these days with role models but I only played 10 years ago, hopefully the kid fairs well in the U.S.

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