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David Rundblad II (Bigup Blade Runner on his first goal! 11/27/11 vs. Canes)

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11-24-2011, 10:56 AM
  #126
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Any word on whether he will be getting a game in tomorrow? He needs to start playing again.

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11-24-2011, 10:56 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Grigo25 View Post
seriously how lee playing better than Rundblad when Rundblad not even playing? make no sens
Clearly more comfortable with Lee in the lineup at this point. We had huge issues with turnovers earlier, Lee's not a big turnover guy. We had issues with the PK earlier, Lee plays some PK.

It's more a matter of what we need in the lineup right now. We need defensive stability from our guys playing bottom pairing minutes.

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11-24-2011, 10:57 AM
  #128
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Any word on whether he will be getting a game in tomorrow? He needs to start playing again.
If I was them I'd think of having him sent to Bingo for tonight and then fly to Pittsburgh. But they seem to think him being on the ice for practice is more important.

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11-24-2011, 02:52 PM
  #129
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It's funny.

We have Rundblad in for a 6 game winning streak where he's one of our better defencemen, decent defensively and dynamic offensively (as well as being the 2nd highest +/- of our defencemen in that span) while MacLean says Rundblad is better than Lee and then we lose a few games, one of which Rundblad was a -2. Then we win 3 games with Lee in the line-up (after previously having lost every game Lee had been in the line-up before) and MoO says "the team is clearly more comfortable with Lee."

Lee has literally contributed nothing to our wins. He has just been there. He's decent defensively, but again so is Rundblad. The difference being that Rundblad actually makes things happen with the puck. We have never lost a game because of Rundblad -- we have however won games because of Rundblad. I can't say the same for Lee.

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11-24-2011, 02:59 PM
  #130
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Lee is helping the team win more than Rundblad right now. that is why he is playing and rundblad is sitting.

it's not complicated and should be obvious to anyone watching the games.

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11-24-2011, 03:02 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
It's funny.

We have Rundblad in for a 6 game winning streak where he's one of our better defencemen, decent defensively and dynamic offensively (as well as being the 2nd highest +/- of our defencemen in that span) while MacLean says Rundblad is better than Lee and then we lose a few games, one of which Rundblad was a -2. Then we win 3 games with Lee in the line-up (after previously having lost every game Lee had been in the line-up before) and MoO says "the team is clearly more comfortable with Lee."

.
His offense didn't contribute to those wins, someday it likely will.

Proof is in the quotes. The more recent quotes.

I'm all for putting Rundblad in. I have no idea what their plans are. Lee is boooooorrrrrrrrring, but has been effective in a role we may need more. Not like he kills the transition game either. DRs gonna have to get into games soon, even if its here or there in the AHL. Maybe he goes down full time when Carkner's back...maybe we trade Lee.

Maybe we're trying to drive Lee's value up as much as possible. I dunnooo, bro.

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11-24-2011, 05:19 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
It's funny.

We have Rundblad in for a 6 game winning streak where he's one of our better defencemen, decent defensively and dynamic offensively (as well as being the 2nd highest +/- of our defencemen in that span) while MacLean says Rundblad is better than Lee and then we lose a few games, one of which Rundblad was a -2. Then we win 3 games with Lee in the line-up (after previously having lost every game Lee had been in the line-up before) and MoO says "the team is clearly more comfortable with Lee."

Lee has literally contributed nothing to our wins. He has just been there. He's decent defensively, but again so is Rundblad. The difference being that Rundblad actually makes things happen with the puck. We have never lost a game because of Rundblad -- we have however won games because of Rundblad. I can't say the same for Lee.
Seems pretty clear to me, Lee is in the lineup, Rundblad is out. What better metric than that is there for how comfortable the team is with a player?

Maybe the staff is still seeing somethings they want corrected in Rundblads game during practice, maybe they're seeing things the really like from Lee, but right now, they likely feel their chances of winning the game are better with Lee, to an extent significant enough that they are willing play him over Rundblad rather then bounce between the two.

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11-24-2011, 07:10 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
His offense didn't contribute to those wins, someday it likely will.

Proof is in the quotes. The more recent quotes.

I'm all for putting Rundblad in. I have no idea what their plans are. Lee is boooooorrrrrrrrring, but has been effective in a role we may need more. Not like he kills the transition game either. DRs gonna have to get into games soon, even if its here or there in the AHL. Maybe he goes down full time when Carkner's back...maybe we trade Lee.

Maybe we're trying to drive Lee's value up as much as possible. I dunnooo, bro.
Right...it's not like his backpass off the boards directly led to Foligno's GWG against Florida. It's not like his 90 foot pass to Greening tied the game up and swung the momentum in Ottawa's favor against Toronto.

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Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
Seems pretty clear to me, Lee is in the lineup, Rundblad is out. What better metric than that is there for how comfortable the team is with a player?

Maybe the staff is still seeing somethings they want corrected in Rundblads game during practice, maybe they're seeing things the really like from Lee, but right now, they likely feel their chances of winning the game are better with Lee, to an extent significant enough that they are willing play him over Rundblad rather then bounce between the two.
Rundblad has played more games than Lee this year. It seems more arbitrary than anything. They were winning with Rundblad and then they started losing so he switched them up, and then they started winning so he kept Lee. The difference is that Lee is slightly better defensively while Rundblad is much better offensively.

We've scored more goals (gpg) with Rundblad in the line-up, also, even when he's not getting his name in the boxscore he's contributing to the dynamic offence of the team.

The sad thing is that I like Lee a lot and feel like he's unfairly underrated. That said Rundblad is clearly better.

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11-24-2011, 07:28 PM
  #134
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Clearly better?

Not yet.

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11-24-2011, 07:32 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Right...it's not like his backpass off the boards directly led to Foligno's GWG against Florida. It's not like his 90 foot pass to Greening tied the game up and swung the momentum in Ottawa's favor against Toronto.



Rundblad has played more games than Lee this year. It seems more arbitrary than anything. They were winning with Rundblad and then they started losing so he switched them up, and then they started winning so he kept Lee. The difference is that Lee is slightly better defensively while Rundblad is much better offensively.

We've scored more goals (gpg) with Rundblad in the line-up, also, even when he's not getting his name in the boxscore he's contributing to the dynamic offence of the team.

The sad thing is that I like Lee a lot and feel like he's unfairly underrated. That said Rundblad is clearly better.
And at the time, the team felt more comfortable with Rundblad. Things changed, other teams started to notice Rundblad's tendencies resulting in giveaways (8th most on the team in half the games), Lee started to come into form. Now they are more comfortable with Lee

I like Rundblad a lot, but at the moment, it seems the coaching staff feels more comfortable putting lee on the ice. At some point that will likely change, but at this point, they like Lee and what he brings.

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11-24-2011, 07:33 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Clearly better?

Not yet.
If you say so.

"His offense didn't contribute to those wins, someday it likely will."

But ok. When Lee contributes to a win let me know.

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11-24-2011, 07:37 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
If you say so.

"His offense didn't contribute to those wins, someday it likely will."

But ok. When Lee contributes to a win let me know.
You came up with two occasions, great.

He is by not making mistakes defensively. We struggled with turnovers earlier...so they opted for the guy much less likely to turn the puck over.

For someone that's accused me countless times of seeing a player through rose coloured glasses, a player you've recently admitted has proven you wrong, you're arguments regarding Rundblad are hysterical. The guy isn't in the lineup for a reason, I can't wait til he's back in the lineup.

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11-24-2011, 08:06 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
You came up with two occasions, great.

He is by not making mistakes defensively. We struggled with turnovers earlier...so they opted for the guy much less likely to turn the puck over.

For someone that's accused me countless times of seeing a player through rose coloured glasses, a player you've recently admitted has proven you wrong, you're arguments regarding Rundblad are hysterical. The guy isn't in the lineup for a reason, I can't wait til he's back in the lineup.
I'm not claiming Rundblad is some world beater. Or that he's amazing or that he is already an NHL all-star or should be. I'm just saying that he should be playing. He's never been the reason we've lost a game, but he has been part of the reason we've won games.

Has he really played badly enough to be sitting right now? No. Lee hasn't outplayed him, either. Like I said before it seems very unfair. Filatov and Rundblad both have been getting the short end of the stick.

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11-24-2011, 08:09 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
You came up with two occasions, great.
Two is more than none, and it's 20% of our wins.

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11-24-2011, 08:12 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post

Has he really played badly enough to be sitting right now? No. Lee hasn't outplayed him, either. Like I said before it seems very unfair. Filatov and Rundblad both have been getting the short end of the stick.
I would say if you lined up 5 NHL coaches, or "hockey people", at the absolute very least 3 would tell you Brian Lee is the better option based on how he's played of late and how Rundblad's played most recently. It's up for debate only because Rundblad clearly possesses an offensive X-factor and deciding what helps the team more is based on subjective opinion.

For our situation, we were turning the puck over WAY too much two weeks ago and Brian Lee isn't a player that will cough up the puck much. Our PK also sucked and Brian Lee logs a couple minutes there a game, and does well.

There is also that possibility that Brian Lee is in the lineup to showcase infront of scouts because once Carkner is back, we may deal one of our extra Dmen. Brian Lee is playing well enough to interest teams...and there are tons of teams that could use a player/contract like Lee.

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11-24-2011, 08:13 PM
  #141
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Two is more than none, and it's 20% of our wins.
Defensive play is hard to quantify, doesn't mean it isn't half or more than half the equation for a defensemen. Especially for a team that was coughing up the puck over 10 times a game.

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11-24-2011, 08:22 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
I'm not claiming Rundblad is some world beater. Or that he's amazing or that he is already an NHL all-star or should be. I'm just saying that he should be playing. He's never been the reason we've lost a game, but he has been part of the reason we've won games.

Has he really played badly enough to be sitting right now? No. Lee hasn't outplayed him, either. Like I said before it seems very unfair. Filatov and Rundblad both have been getting the short end of the stick.
I can tell you the example. Columbus. Nikita Nikitin is worse offensively than Kris Russell. Probably yes. But his cleaning the place in the front of own net, his hits, great defense is better for our offensive than Russels offensive skill. Why? Because the team feel certain in defense and can allow more in offense because players know that it is somebody who can repair mistakes and finish forwards from another team. Similar Lee. He is certain in defense and players make less mistakes and allow more than with Rundblad in the roster.

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11-24-2011, 08:25 PM
  #143
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Too many turnovers between Rundblad and Karlsson. They aren't gonna solve the problem by sitting the one playing 25 minutes a night.

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11-24-2011, 08:37 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
I would say if you lined up 5 NHL coaches, or "hockey people", at the absolute very least 3 would tell you Brian Lee is the better option based on how he's played of late and how Rundblad's played most recently. It's up for debate only because Rundblad clearly possesses an offensive X-factor and deciding what helps the team more is based on subjective opinion.

For our situation, we were turning the puck over WAY too much two weeks ago and Brian Lee isn't a player that will cough up the puck much. Our PK also sucked and Brian Lee logs a couple minutes there a game, and does well.

There is also that possibility that Brian Lee is in the lineup to showcase infront of scouts because once Carkner is back, we may deal one of our extra Dmen. Brian Lee is playing well enough to interest teams...and there are tons of teams that could use a player/contract like Lee.
We're 7 - 6 with Rundblad in the line-up and 3 - 7 with Brian Lee in the line-up. Quantify that.

Rundblad looks bad when the whole team plays bad, sure, but the same can be said of most of our players. Rundblad is a difference maker and has been on more than one occasion even when he's not putting up points (Rundblad put up most of his giveaways in the Boston/Buffalo games.) He maybe should have sat a game, but honestly keeping him out of the line-up this long is ridiculous.

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He is certain in defense and players make less mistakes and allow more than with Rundblad in the roster.
This being reflected by the team's record with either in the line-up.

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11-24-2011, 08:50 PM
  #145
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3-0-1 in our last 4 with Lee. A +1.

1-3-0 in our last 4 with Rundblad. Who was a -6.

Kinda seems like the coach identified a weakness and fixed it.

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11-24-2011, 08:52 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
3-0-1 in our last 4 with Lee.

1-3-0 in our last 4 with Rundblad. Who was a -6.
This! Simply, Rundblad needs Bingo and KK.

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11-24-2011, 09:09 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
3-0-1 in our last 4 with Lee. A +1.

1-3-0 in our last 4 with Rundblad. Who was a -6.

Kinda seems like the coach identified a weakness and fixed it.
Or we played against 3 of the best teams in the league (Boston, NYR, Buffalo) and then went on a road trip to play against some of the more mediocre to worst teams in the league (Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton.)

Interestingly enough before this stretch we were 0 - 6 with Lee in the line-up.

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11-24-2011, 09:14 PM
  #148
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This! Simply, Rundblad needs Bingo and KK.
I guess that's why we've won more than we've lost with Rundblad in the line-up and he's contributed to multiple wins (more than the 2 that he directly contributed to with points.)

Oh well. I don't really care whether people think he should be playing in the NHL or not right now (he should) but he needs to be playing period. Whether it's in Bingo or with Ottawa I don't really care. It's upsetting that he's just not playing at all.

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11-24-2011, 09:18 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Or we played against 3 of the best teams in the league (Boston, NYR, Buffalo) and then went on a road trip to play against some of the more mediocre to worst teams in the league (Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton.)

Interestingly enough before this stretch we were 0 - 6 with Lee in the line-up.
We were also on the road.

So you're going to go back and blame Lee for the losses at the start of the year when clearly it was our vets that couldn't play. What are you going back that far for?

The coach makes the lineup now for what thinks is giving us our best chances now. Refer to my last post on that.

You're really digging. Fact of the matter is we were losing lately with Rundblad and winning lately with Lee. That's the argument you chose to run with and it's failing.

Pick another, or give up.

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11-24-2011, 09:32 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
We were also on the road.

So you're going to go back and blame Lee for the losses at the start of the year when clearly it was our vets that couldn't play. What are you going back that far for?

The coach makes the lineup now for what thinks is giving us our best chances now. Refer to my last post on that.

You're really digging. Fact of the matter is we were losing lately with Rundblad and winning lately with Lee. That's the argument you chose to run with and it's failing.

Pick another, or give up.
You're pretty bad at this. You always try and focus on little things that actually have nothing to do with the overall discussion to try and give yourself little moral victories.

The only main point that was made when this originated was that we've won more with Rundblad in the line-up, and that Rundblad has actually contributed to victories unlike Lee. You said that Rundblad didn't and I proved you wrong (which you quickly tried to brush under the rug.) You said that we win more recently with Lee -- which is circumstantial because we played against a completely different level of teams with Lee in the line-up recently. Rundblad had to face a resurgent Bruins team, New York, and Buffalo. Nobody was good in these games so the coach took out the easiest scapegoat (not that he played great, but he had been playing good up until those games.) Lee hasn't done anything since coming back in -- he barely plays any minutes in fact. 13 minutes for a D-man is very low. We certainly aren't winning because of Lee being in the line-up.

If the only thing you have to work in your favor is that we've won games that Lee barely played any time in against fairly favorable teams that's fine. It doesn't change the fact that Rundblad has been playing better than Lee.

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