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Where's The Skill?

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11-02-2011, 11:12 PM
  #1
Foppa2118
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Where's The Skill?

For how talented the Avs are they just don't make creative talented plays offensively, at least so far this year, and going back to their downward slide last year. I hear a lot of talk about how fast they play as a team, but it doesn't come across that way when you watch them. They're always skating close to the opposition. Duchene's always trying to make moves right next to the D like he can shield the puck like Forsberg. The D just dumps the puck in at the redline and they forecheck hoping to get possession. All the shots are from the outside and they're hoping for rebounds.

You watch teams like Edmonton or just the goals scored in games on NHL on the fly and you see guys breaking down the opposition with their passing and skill, whether it's puck handling or shot selection. Where is that for the Avs? With the makeup of the Avs that's how they will play when they are a contending team, the way a team like Chicago plays. They almost make it easy for goalies by throwing so many weak scoring chances on net and hoping to get lucky.

They have a lot of skill in the lineup, I think Sacco really needs to start getting them to practice their puck movement, support, and passing more. It may be about time to bring a guy like Elliott up, or even Hunwick in favor of Wilson so the transition can back the D off a little because of their speed and open up more room for the forwards to make plays with the puck. EJ is a good D man but he's just above average in transition, as are the rest of the guys at best.

Keeping things simple is great during times, but you can't rely on that every game. You're star players need to lead your team and create scoring chances by breaking down the oppostion with their talent and smarts. The good teams in the league have always done this the majority of the time and then gone back to simple hockey during tight playoff games. The Avs need to find a way to get that confidence in themselves offensively to dominate teams with their skill.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 11-02-2011 at 11:17 PM.
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11-02-2011, 11:26 PM
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ChibiPooky
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I would argue that we saw a lot of that sort of play from Lindstrom-Stastny-Hejduk tonight. Duchene's line is in bad need of a way to make a play though.

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11-02-2011, 11:30 PM
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Our passing has always been bad and it could be a reason why we dump n chase.

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11-03-2011, 12:45 AM
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Foppa2118
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Our passing has always been bad and it could be a reason why we dump n chase.
This to me is a coachable trait though unless you just don't have a talented team, which the Avs do. Puck possession, puck support, and heads up passing are all things that you can become good at through concentrated practice. Sacco and Co really need to find a way to drill them into to playing better in this area. They just don't generate that many dangerous chances. Everything is very standard. Dump, chase, shot from the outside, crash, shots blocked or smothered.

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11-03-2011, 12:49 AM
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Avs seem to be too absorbed with using their team speed, and completely forgetting to use actual passing and puck movement. As a result, if any team actually moves the puck the Avs just implode upon themselves. The O'Reilly line is having a lot of success right now because they actually move the puck around, as opposed to trying to make a highlight reel play and then giving it away.

I don't even know what's going on with Stastny. It's like the hockey gods are mocking him, every nice feed he makes his winger shanks it, every chance he gets he blows it. Guy could be leading the league in points right now if he had any luck at all.

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11-03-2011, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
For how talented the Avs are they just don't make creative talented plays offensively, at least so far this year, and going back to their downward slide last year. I hear a lot of talk about how fast they play as a team, but it doesn't come across that way when you watch them. They're always skating close to the opposition. Duchene's always trying to make moves right next to the D like he can shield the puck like Forsberg. The D just dumps the puck in at the redline and they forecheck hoping to get possession. All the shots are from the outside and they're hoping for rebounds.

You watch teams like Edmonton or just the goals scored in games on NHL on the fly and you see guys breaking down the opposition with their passing and skill, whether it's puck handling or shot selection. Where is that for the Avs? With the makeup of the Avs that's how they will play when they are a contending team, the way a team like Chicago plays. They almost make it easy for goalies by throwing so many weak scoring chances on net and hoping to get lucky.

They have a lot of skill in the lineup, I think Sacco really needs to start getting them to practice their puck movement, support, and passing more. It may be about time to bring a guy like Elliott up, or even Hunwick in favor of Wilson so the transition can back the D off a little because of their speed and open up more room for the forwards to make plays with the puck. EJ is a good D man but he's just above average in transition, as are the rest of the guys at best.

Keeping things simple is great during times, but you can't rely on that every game. You're star players need to lead your team and create scoring chances by breaking down the oppostion with their talent and smarts. The good teams in the league have always done this the majority of the time and then gone back to simple hockey during tight playoff games. The Avs need to find a way to get that confidence in themselves offensively to dominate teams with their skill.
No...no...no...A THOUSAND TIMES no.

Let's not lose our marbles here. Fact is the Avs management decided JML was expendable and opted for bigger, grittier blueliners at the cost of the puckmoving skills they had the last couple seasons. Right now the blueline can move bodies around, but they're not the fast, offensively dynamic unit they were the past season-and-a-half.

But Hunwick is not the answer. All he'll do is commit even more turnovers than the Avs are already doing on an all-too-regular basis.

Not sure if Elliott is the answer right now either. That's a lot to be asking a kid who's still finding his way in pro hockey. The Monsters themselves have gotten off to a horrendous start. It's not necessarily a bad thing--hey, Shattenkirk did pretty well to start out after a cup of coffee in the AHL--but the truth is, both him an Barrie probably need a full year in Lake Erie before they're truly ready to contribute.

IMO the Avs can't play a puck possession game right now. Any players who allowed them to even play a semblance of that style (Liles, Flash) are gone now. It's chip-it-in-and-dig-for-it or nothing. Perhaps in time we'll see more puck possession with the addition of more skill, but on a team that actually sported Kobasew and Lindstrom in top line roles, it's just not gonna happen right now.

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11-03-2011, 12:53 AM
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Short answer: New coaching

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11-03-2011, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GobiasIndustries View Post
I don't even know what's going on with Stastny. It's like the hockey gods are mocking him, every nice feed he makes his winger shanks it, every chance he gets he blows it. Guy could be leading the league in points right now if he had any luck at all.
The "hockey gods" have nothing to do with it--there just aren't any true finishers on the team right now. Much as I like David Jones, he's not a natural scorer.

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11-03-2011, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
The "hockey gods" have nothing to do with it--there just aren't any true finishers on the team right now. Much as I like David Jones, he's not a natural scorer.
Hejduk is the last one of those that this team had. Need a new young one.

Edit: Stewert look who we traded him for.


Last edited by Reparlana: 11-03-2011 at 01:24 AM.
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11-03-2011, 12:59 AM
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Short answer: New coaching
Which should've happened at the end of last season!

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11-03-2011, 01:03 AM
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I hope Sherman finds a way to acquire another top 6 winger at some point during the season, but we don't really have much in the way of trade chips. Any puck movement help for the D will only come if one of Elliott or Barrie steps up during an injury callup; I think most likely what we see right now is what we're gonna have all year (when healthy) on D.

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11-03-2011, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GobiasIndustries View Post
I don't even know what's going on with Stastny. It's like the hockey gods are mocking him, every nice feed he makes his winger shanks it, every chance he gets he blows it. Guy could be leading the league in points right now if he had any luck at all.
Seems unfair, doesn't it? He's creating multitudes of chances... but no finish, no finish, no finish

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11-03-2011, 10:17 AM
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I'd rather see the Avs try to get a big, gritty forward with some skill instead of a puck possession kind of guy. We have plenty of guys with skill and puck possession skills, but no one that is really comfortable parking in front of the net. Right now, we have too many small guys who are easily moved off the puck when they are trying to make something happen with their skills. Jones has tried to fill this role at times, but he doesn't look comfortable doing it.

We need someone in the mold of Ryan Smyth, Brunette or Holmstrom.

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11-03-2011, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
I'd rather see the Avs try to get a big, gritty forward with some skill instead of a puck possession kind of guy. We have plenty of guys with skill and puck possession skills, but no one that is really comfortable parking in front of the net. Right now, we have too many small guys who are easily moved off the puck when they are trying to make something happen with their skills. Jones has tried to fill this role at times, but he doesn't look comfortable doing it.

We need someone in the mold of Ryan Smyth, Brunette or Holmstrom.
lol everything you just said screams Landeskog you dingus


The avs problem isnt the D, its the lack of skilled scoring players on the top 6, we need duchene to score more, that will help, but we also need another pure sniper in the mold of hejduk or a guy like alex semin to really compete

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11-03-2011, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by quesosauce View Post
lol everything you just said screams Landeskog you dingus


The avs problem isnt the D, its the lack of skilled scoring players on the top 6, we need duchene to score more, that will help, but we also need another pure sniper in the mold of hejduk or a guy like alex semin to really compete
Yes, Landeskog is going to be one of those kinds of guys, but he's only 18 and still needs to put on about 20-30 lbs before he's really ready to battle down low every game. He's showing the willingness, but he's overmatched against the bigger defensemen in the league. In 2-3 years, he's going to be a beast.

Right now, he's still learning and is getting pushed around a little too much. So, why not get someone else who fills that role, and can mentor Landeskog and help him reach his full potential?

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11-03-2011, 10:52 AM
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I also wonder if we've simplified the game a little bit too much? Our top two lines seem to just chuck it on net (except Duchene who wants to just deke the world out of the arena and then turns it over) and never go for the elaborate plays. It's dump it or shoot off the rush. Not much of that creativity going on.

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11-03-2011, 10:53 AM
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we could have had micheal ryder in the off season, not a good skater but he can put the puck in the net.

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11-03-2011, 10:57 AM
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Yes, Landeskog is going to be one of those kinds of guys, but he's only 18 and still needs to put on about 20-30 lbs before he's really ready to battle down low every game. He's showing the willingness, but he's overmatched against the bigger defensemen in the league. In 2-3 years, he's going to be a beast.

Right now, he's still learning and is getting pushed around a little too much. So, why not get someone else who fills that role, and can mentor Landeskog and help him reach his full potential?
First, Landeskog will never put on 20-30 pounds. Secondly, he does fine against pretty much every defender he is playing currently. I don't know how you can watch Avs and come to this conclusion. If anything he is overpowering defenders who are bigger than he is.

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11-03-2011, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by quesosauce View Post
The avs problem isnt the D, its the lack of skilled scoring players on the top 6, we need duchene to score more, that will help, but we also need another pure sniper in the mold of hejduk or a guy like alex semin to really compete
Sacco needs to utilize Lindstrom as a legit top 6 winger and stop platooning him with Kobasew. The guy has good hands and a wicked one timer. Let him play top 6 minutes and he could prove to be a poor man's Markus Naslund.

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11-03-2011, 12:57 PM
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First, Landeskog will never put on 20-30 pounds. Secondly, he does fine against pretty much every defender he is playing currently. I don't know how you can watch Avs and come to this conclusion. If anything he is overpowering defenders who are bigger than he is.
My original point was that, while our defense is big and physical, our team as a whole is not. We don't have any forwards in our top 6 who bang bodies with big defensemen on a regular basis and get the better of it. Lindstrom, Hejduk and Duchene are finesse guys and don't really play the physical game. Jones is big, but he's more of a finesse guy. Galiardi will bang, but he needs to show more consistency before he's a solid option in the top 6. Stastny is also willing to bang, but he's not exactly a bruiser.

If the Avs could get someone like Dustin Brown, or Backes, or Clowe, or Getzlaf, or Bobby Ryan, or anyone who is big, decently skilled, willing to throw a shoulder into someone and capable of knocking them on their butt, I think the team would be in a much better place. I know these guys don't grow on trees.

Landeskog is trying to fill that role, but he's just not quite there yet.

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11-03-2011, 12:59 PM
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My original point was that, while our defense is big and physical, our team as a whole is not. We don't have any forwards in our top 6 who bang bodies with big defensemen on a regular basis and get the better of it. Lindstrom, Hejduk and Duchene are finesse guys and don't really play the physical game. Jones is big, but he's more of a finesse guy. Galiardi will bang, but he needs to show more consistency before he's a solid option in the top 6. Stastny is also willing to bang, but he's not exactly a bruiser.

If the Avs could get someone like Dustin Brown, or Backes, or Clowe, or Getzlaf, or Bobby Ryan, or anyone who is big, decently skilled, willing to throw a shoulder into someone and capable of knocking them on their butt, I think the team would be in a much better place. I know these guys don't grow on trees.

Landeskog is trying to fill that role, but he's just not quite there yet.
Tuomo Ruutu would be the most feasible

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11-03-2011, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by quesosauce View Post
lol everything you just said screams Landeskog you dingus


The avs problem isnt the D, its the lack of skilled scoring players on the top 6, we need duchene to score more, that will help, but we also need another pure sniper in the mold of hejduk or a guy like alex semin to really compete
Someone gets it

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11-03-2011, 01:53 PM
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Tuomo Ruutu would be the most feasible
I'd be ok with that. He'd give us 15-20 goals, 50-60 points and 200+ hits. I think he's be a decent top 6 option for us, probably 2nd line LW when it all shakes out.

What would Carolina need in return for him?

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11-03-2011, 02:45 PM
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I'm seeing more of a finishing problem than a creation problem.

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11-03-2011, 03:38 PM
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If Lindstrom ever shot, some of that finishing problem might be solved.

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