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Realignment - Losing Philly?

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Old
11-01-2011, 12:08 PM
  #101
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I really don't see Philly as much of a rivalry as Washington. I also think there's serious potential for Columbus and Buffalo to be much bigger rivals that Philly is due to the fact that it's much easier to travel to those two places.
Totally disagree here. Philly is a rivalry because of the history of the clubs and being in the same state. Washington is a rivalry because the media is pimping it as one bc of Ovechkin/Sid. It will continue to develop among newer fans but Philly/Pittsburgh is and hopefully will always be out bitterest rivals.

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11-01-2011, 12:09 PM
  #102
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I would move Florida to KC, move Phoenix to Quebec.

Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Minnesota
Anaheim, San Jose, LA, Colorado, Dallas
Detroit, Chicago, KC, St Louis, Nashville


Pittsburgh, Columbus, Buffalo, Toronto, Philly/Washington
Washington/Philly, Tampa, Carolina, New Jersey, NYR/NYI
Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec, Boston, NYI/NYR


Or do two divisions in each conference...one has 7, the other has 8.

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11-01-2011, 12:10 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Totally disagree here. Philly is a rivalry because of the history of the clubs and being in the same state. Washington is a rivalry because the media is pimping it as one bc of Ovechkin/Sid. It will continue to develop among newer fans but Philly/Pittsburgh is and hopefully will always be out bitterest rivals.
Washington was already a rivalry in the 90s. Sure, it wasn't as big as the one with Philly, but it was there. It got way bigger because of Sid and Ovy, that I can agree with.

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11-01-2011, 12:14 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
Washington was already a rivalry in the 90s. Sure, it wasn't as big as the one with Philly, but it was there. It got way bigger because of Sid and Ovy, that I can agree with.
I know it was and I guess I should have conceded that. One of my favorite memories as a Pens fan is Nedved's goal in triple OT (i believe) against the caps. I guess my main point was that Philly is a bigger rival and hopefully will always be. I guess that's just my opinion.

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11-01-2011, 12:22 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Totally disagree here. Philly is a rivalry because of the history of the clubs and being in the same state. Washington is a rivalry because the media is pimping it as one bc of Ovechkin/Sid. It will continue to develop among newer fans but Philly/Pittsburgh is and hopefully will always be out bitterest rivals.
Oh? We have had more of a rivalry with Washington over the last 20 years than we ever had with Philly. And Philly sans Richards is a much harder team to hate, IMO.

1990-91: 2nd round matchup
1991-92: 1st round matchup
1993-94: 1st round matchup
1994-95: 1st round matchup
1995-96: 1st round matchup
1999-00: 1st round matchup
2000-01: 1st round matchup
2008-09: 2nd round matchup

Saying it's just Sid/AO is totally misinformed. There's a ton of bad blood between Pittsburgh and Washington because of what I showed above. The Sid/AO thing just makes old feelings worse, for me at least.

Don Beaupre's mask still haunts my hockey dreams.

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Old
11-01-2011, 12:26 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Oh? We have had more of a rivalry with Washington over the last 20 years than we ever had with Philly. And Philly sans Richards is a much harder team to hate, IMO.

1990-91: 2nd round matchup
1991-92: 1st round matchup
1993-94: 1st round matchup
1994-95: 1st round matchup
1995-96: 1st round matchup
1999-00: 1st round matchup
2000-01: 1st round matchup
2008-09: 2nd round matchup

Saying it's just Sid/AO is totally misinformed. There's a ton of bad blood between Pittsburgh and Washington because of what I showed above. The Sid/AO thing just makes old feelings worse, for me at least.

Don Beaupre's mask still haunts my hockey dreams.
Don't forget the Jagr trade! That one still stings!

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11-01-2011, 12:27 PM
  #107
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With Richards traded to LA, I feel Washington is more our premiere rival.

I can't stand Washington's core of players. With how strong our team should be when healthy, I'd love to see us bulldoze them in the ECF.

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11-01-2011, 12:30 PM
  #108
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Washington doesn't have a single redeemable quality in my eyes. I like Brooks Laich and Niklas Backstrom, but after that, there's not much there.

If Philly wasn't Philly, they'd probably be my 2nd favorite team. I hate Philly for their fans way more than their team, and that's just because I had to watch them all walk around with Richard's jerseys at school.

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11-01-2011, 12:32 PM
  #109
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Yeah I guess it's just me but I've always hated Philly. I didn't like the Caps, but never felt the same level of hate for them. Honestly, part of it may be because my uncle lived in DC and we used to go to Pens Caps games there. Caps fans never seemed nearly as unbearable as Flyers fans. Plus, Pronger is probably my least favorite player in the league.

There's really no one I despise on the Caps. I generally just laugh at Ovechkin and Semin is an afterthought since the slap fight and his disappearance act in the playoffs. Until this Caps beat us in the playoffs, I just can't hate them.

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Old
11-01-2011, 12:34 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
Don't forget the Jagr trade! That one still stings!
Well when we started playing Washington every year in the playoffs, I was relatively young. I was still at the age when the Pens lost my world was crushed. Playing Washington every year put a bunch of hate in my little heart, and it's still there.

I'm relatively subdued when I watch games, but that game 7 we beat them in, I haven't been that jacked up for a game since. Washington game 7 and the Cup game are on equal levels for me. Both were equally as sweet.

I just absolutely ****ing hate anything Washington Capitals related.

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11-01-2011, 12:55 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Well when we started playing Washington every year in the playoffs, I was relatively young. I was still at the age when the Pens lost my world was crushed. Playing Washington every year put a bunch of hate in my little heart, and it's still there.

I'm relatively subdued when I watch games, but that game 7 we beat them in, I haven't been that jacked up for a game since. Washington game 7 and the Cup game are on equal levels for me. Both were equally as sweet.

I just absolutely ****ing hate anything Washington Capitals related.
Nothing brought me more joy than to see us blow them out in game 7. Now add Sid entering his prime, Geno back in 09 form, Staal playing his best hockey, a competent PP, Martin/Michalek, and a potential 35 goal winger in Neal. I'd argue our improvements blow theirs out of the water.

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Old
11-01-2011, 01:20 PM
  #112
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If you don't think there's a rivalry between the Pens and Caps, just ask a Caps fan. I'm sure you all know one.

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11-01-2011, 01:31 PM
  #113
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Washington doesn't have a single redeemable quality in my eyes. I like Brooks Laich and Niklas Backstrom, but after that, there's not much there.

If Philly wasn't Philly, they'd probably be my 2nd favorite team. I hate Philly for their fans way more than their team, and that's just because I had to watch them all walk around with Richard's jerseys at school.
The same for me. It is the New York market, and I consider Philly to be a big part of that. Not all obviously, generalizing is dangerous. But they do seem to ahve a large percentage of really annoying people follow their team. Their sports media may be even worse.

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11-01-2011, 02:24 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I would move Florida to KC, move Phoenix to Quebec.
Sorry JTG, I don't mean to pick on you but you're one of the many posters on HF Boards that unfairly paints Florida with the relocation brush.

They actually have strong attendance for not having made the playoffs in over 8 years. They haven't had a season under 15,000 other than 2000-2001 and they're usually in the top 20 when it comes to average attendance. The Panthers also have very strong corporate sponsorship and I belive, according to Yomak (President of the Panthers) they rank in the top 10 in sponsorship.

I'm by no means a huge Panther fan, and I'm still spiteful about the '95/'96 playoff loss to them, but people keep painting them as a team that should move and they're shown otherwise why they shouldn't. Again, don't mean to pick on you as you're far from the only person just pointing out some facts.

Panthers Attendance: http://panthers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=60916


Last edited by Tafkak: 11-01-2011 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Adding link
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Old
11-01-2011, 03:46 PM
  #115
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My beef with Florida is that though they are in the 20-22 range typically in attendance, they are still a team losing money. It's not like Washington, because from the charts I've seen they are losing money also, but at least Washington has hefty salary and they are competitive.

Selling tickets is only half the battle. What if Florida raised their ticket prices to the point where they could reach profitability? I can guarantee you that they wouldn't be in the low 20's in attendance.

Something is not working with that franchise.


I don't want any city to lose their team. I've been firmly in supporting the Isles keeping their sinking ship for a long time. Fact is, too many teams are losing money, and there are markets right now that I think could take those teams and make them profitable.

Right now the Isles are hemorrhaging money, but a lot of that has to do with the arena they are playing in.

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11-01-2011, 04:39 PM
  #116
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I wouldn't really mind if the pens were in the northeast. They were in the northeast for the first 5 years i was a pens fan, so i could deal.

I too think the rivalry with Philly is fading a little. With Richards, Carter, Gagne, Carcillo all gone, they are a totally different team. I don't particularly like Philly fans, but the team itself i don't really have any particular ire for.

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11-01-2011, 05:12 PM
  #117
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Actually, I wouldn't mind being in the NE, especially if Detroit moves over. In fact, playing with Boston, MTL, Buffalo etc., would be excellent. New blood, Philly's not the same any more and NYR, NYI, etc., so what? Do it!

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11-01-2011, 05:32 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
My beef with Florida is that though they are in the 20-22 range typically in attendance, they are still a team losing money. It's not like Washington, because from the charts I've seen they are losing money also, but at least Washington has hefty salary and they are competitive.

Selling tickets is only half the battle. What if Florida raised their ticket prices to the point where they could reach profitability? I can guarantee you that they wouldn't be in the low 20's in attendance.

Something is not working with that franchise.


I don't want any city to lose their team. I've been firmly in supporting the Isles keeping their sinking ship for a long time. Fact is, too many teams are losing money, and there are markets right now that I think could take those teams and make them profitable.

Right now the Isles are hemorrhaging money, but a lot of that has to do with the arena they are playing in.
I guess the biggest reason I fight for the Panthers is any team's fan-base (including the Pens) would find it hard to support an inferior product. We had a tough time supporting the Pen's (not everyone here) during the X-Generation and things have turned around since Sid. I feel that Florida has shown that it can sustain a fan-base and people will see it once they get back on the road to winning, which should happen soon.

Besides, if an owner is willing to sustain losses until he gets an adequate team iced, which is currently happening, who's to say that owner can or can't own the team.

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11-01-2011, 06:03 PM
  #119
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Philly isn`t the same anymore, sure they got Pronger, but a bunch of players are gone. A divison with Buffalo, Habs, Red Wings etc. would be great. I already hate the Canadiens and Wings, so no big deal.

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11-01-2011, 06:16 PM
  #120
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I think having Buffalo and Columbus in the same division would have just as much piss and vinegar to it than Philly or Washington.

It's 3 and a half hour drive to both.

5 hours to both Washington and Philly.


Buffalo is definitely on an upswing...if CBJ gets there, it could be a hell of a division.

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11-01-2011, 07:04 PM
  #121
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If moving us out of the Atlantic is truly the best move for the league then I'm fine with it.

It would suck to not be in the same division as Philly, but I really have no feelings either way about the Islanders, Rangers, and Devils.

It would be interesting to be in the same division as Columbus, Buffalo, Toronto, etc.

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11-01-2011, 07:52 PM
  #122
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Meh, we would still have a rivalry with Philly with fewer games the same as we have a rivalry with Washington who are not in our division. I wish the schedule was more balanced between east and west personally. We don't need to play Philly 8 times a year, it can dull the rivalry.

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11-01-2011, 09:34 PM
  #123
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I really don't understand the love for Columbus on this board. They're the blandest, most uninspiring, most inept, most boring franchise there is. There's no rivalry there. There's just a bunch of Pens fans invading the building.

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11-01-2011, 09:41 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I really don't understand the love for Columbus on this board. They're the blandest, most uninspiring, most inept, most boring franchise there is. There's no rivalry there. There's just a bunch of Pens fans invading the building.
There's no rivalry for you. You're from Montreal.

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11-01-2011, 09:41 PM
  #125
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I really don't understand the love for Columbus on this board. They're the blandest, most uninspiring, most inept, most boring franchise there is. There's no rivalry there. There's just a bunch of Pens fans invading the building.
As a Pittsburgh sports fan, there is great appeal to building a rivalry with a team from Ohio.

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