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10-31-2011, 07:35 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Moo View Post
And a lot of times those can do more damage than good.

It better be a deal that truly helps us, otherwise those who sign off on it should go, too, in addition to GMSH and HCSA.
Can it be much worse?

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10-31-2011, 07:42 AM
  #177
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Can it be much worse?
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10-31-2011, 07:43 AM
  #178
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Either way, no playoffs.... at least then we'd have a better chance then we do now of landing the top pick....



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10-31-2011, 08:08 AM
  #179
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Great, we're stuck with Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb.
I would hope there is solid enough leadership that a couple of wins or a few losses don't stand on their own. They need to look at the operation holistically.

Does this operation have the vision and executional excellence to get where they want to go? Maybe even more important; does this total operation have the needed people and processes in place to be a successful business?

Vision? sure doesn't look so.
Executional excellence? Howson's four seasons are enough evidence to judge. He can't be held responsible for the seven seasons before his arrival. His four seasons show no signs of ability to execute in a well conceived way.

I would however much prefer that ownership does take the needed time to find management with a solid track record of franchise building, instead of choosing whomever is available. Some posters suggested Dave Nonis. They can't get another team's AGM during the season.

I prefer that ownership realizes a huge mistake in the Howson hiring. I believe they need someone who comes from an organization with high expectations and a winning track record. That eliminates staff from places like Edmonton or St. Louis, Florida, Calgary, and Winnipeg/Atlanta and of course Chris MacFarland

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10-31-2011, 08:08 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Is there a chance that a monster trade is in the works involving the Jackets?

I'm talking a room-shaking one, 4 or 5 NHLers involved...


That seems like the next logical step for a general manager and coaching tandem that is on the hot seat, see if they can shake up the room just enough to get results...
If Howson is truly on a short leash, then I wouldn't think he would have much leeway to make any kind of trade, let alone a blockbuster.

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10-31-2011, 08:21 AM
  #181
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So at some point does Portzline have to do a me aculpa and admit his story was total bs? Button denounced ANY contact with the organization last night on NHL On The Fly. I think nothing happens at all.

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10-31-2011, 08:28 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by jktsfan View Post
So at some point does Portzline have to do a me aculpa and admit his story was total bs? Button denounced ANY contact with the organization last night on NHL On The Fly. I think nothing happens at all.
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Multiple NHL sources have informed The Dispatch early Sunday that Jackets president Mike Priest has contacted Ken Hitchcock about returning as the club’s coach, and that former Calgary Flames general manager Craig Button has been contacted about taking on the same job with the Jackets.
If Portzline really had multiple sources that told him this, and they were reasonably credible sources, he has no reason to say mea culpa.

Mea Culpa means- it's my fault. If he reported what he was told, how is he at fault? Are you saying he lied? Fabricated the story?

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10-31-2011, 08:29 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by jktsfan View Post
So at some point does Portzline have to do a me aculpa and admit his story was total bs? Button denounced ANY contact with the organization last night on NHL On The Fly. I think nothing happens at all.
No, the media is rarely held accountable for their mistakes.

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10-31-2011, 08:35 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
If Portzline really had multiple sources that told him this, and they were reasonably credible sources, he has no reason to say mea culpa.

Mea Culpa means- it's my fault. If he reported what he was told, how is he at fault? Are you saying he lied? Fabricated the story?
That's why a reporter must have trustworthy sources. Ultimately it is his fault, he trusted the source(s) that gave him this information, he put his name on it and put it out there for public consumption. The end result is the Dispatch looks bad, Portzline looks bad and loses some credibility, and the source loses credibility with Portzline.

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10-31-2011, 08:41 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by astall35 View Post
That's why a reporter must have trustworthy sources. Ultimately it is his fault, he trusted the source(s) that gave him this information, he put his name on it and put it out there for public consumption. The end result is the Dispatch looks bad, Portzline looks bad and loses some credibility, and the source loses credibility with Portzline.
Porty has no explaining to do. Why? Because of these articles in today's paper:

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...necessary.html

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...-continue.html

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...hs-enough.html

Something is brewing, we don't know what. Maybe it has been put on the back burner after the win last night. Or maybe this is the Dispatch (as minority owner) applying some more heat to those in the hot seat.

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10-31-2011, 08:45 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by astall35 View Post
That's why a reporter must have trustworthy sources. Ultimately it is his fault, he trusted the source(s) that gave him this information, he put his name on it and put it out there for public consumption. The end result is the Dispatch looks bad, Portzline looks bad and loses some credibility, and the source loses credibility with Portzline.
Of course, but if he was told by multiple NHL sources. If they are reliable sources and nothing happens, is it Portzline's fault?

Here is another thought. If someone in the Jackets organization told several people that Priest has talked with Hitchcock and Button to evaluate their interest and capabilities, but no decision has been made to actually pull the trigger, do you actually believe any decent manager would admit it? As long as Arniel and Howson remain in the job, it cannot be admitted publicly.

I suspect ownership is exploring their options and hasn't made a decision. Thank goodness, would you want them to just fire them and have no plan with no people ready to assume those roles?

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10-31-2011, 08:49 AM
  #187
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The "our organization is committed to winning" must be a new thing. Nothing says winning like rookies at your key positions...president, GM, coach. Pretty much lip service at this point

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10-31-2011, 08:53 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by jktsfan View Post
So at some point does Portzline have to do a me aculpa and admit his story was total bs? Button denounced ANY contact with the organization last night on NHL On The Fly. I think nothing happens at all.
I think putting a story out about possible changes happening Monday is one thing, but to mention Button's name, Porty had to make sure that the sources were rock-solid. Button's denial of being contacted was pretty emphatic. I guess he has to deny it, but one would think he would have been more vague (i.e. "the Jackets have a GM right now and I can't comment on any speculation of what could occur if he was fired in the future", etc). I would like to see Porty either firmly stand by his quote today or retract it.

If the Jackets' brass decide to let status quo roll for awhile, then so be it. If the wins start to pile up, then I'm happy, even though I outlined a 'reboot' scenario earlier in the thread.

But, there better be checks in place that do not allow Howson to blow up the team in a last-chance effort to salvage the season. I do not want to see the first pick from next year's draft traded for a rental or something crazy like that.

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10-31-2011, 08:54 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Fred Glover View Post
Porty has no explaining to do. Why? Because of these articles in today's paper:

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...necessary.html

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...-continue.html

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...hs-enough.html

Something is brewing, we don't know what. Maybe it has been put on the back burner after the win last night. Or maybe this is the Dispatch (as minority owner) applying some more heat to those in the hot seat.
I remain surprised that Portie posted a potential name replacement for Howson.... Hitchcock's name has been thrown around for weeks as a potential interim coach, but that tweet and blog by Portie was completely off the reservation, completely out of the blue.... I can understand him saying something like "Howson could be ultimately held responsible for the mess" but he threw out a name which shocked me, no prior attachment to the franchise, no in-house interim candidate, it was surprising.... Even if he was just connecting the dots between Hitch and Button, it was really surprising.

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10-31-2011, 08:55 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
The "our organization is committed to winning" must be a new thing. Nothing says winning like rookies at your key positions...president, GM, coach. Pretty much lip service at this point
This is the "training wheels of the NHL", after all.

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10-31-2011, 09:06 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
I remain surprised that Portie posted a potential name replacement for Howson.... Hitchcock's name has been thrown around for weeks as a potential interim coach, but that tweet and blog by Portie was completely off the reservation, completely out of the blue.... I can understand him saying something like "Howson could be ultimately held responsible for the mess" but he threw out a name which shocked me, no prior attachment to the franchise, no in-house interim candidate, it was surprising.... Even if he was just connecting the dots between Hitch and Button, it was really surprising.
I am not surprised, it is how sports journalism works today. Look at all of the rumors of possible replacements for the OSU football position. Look at anyone on the hot seat, sports reporters report what they hear. What they hear may be wrong, it may be misinformation, but they report what they hear. They check it out and if it seems credible, they run with it. It doesn't have to happen the way they report it will happen, but they do have their sources, even if their sources may be in error. It gets the sport fans talking (just as we do here) and sells papers. Sometimes they are correct in what they write, and many times they aren't. It happens all of the time. It is journalism today. Sadly

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10-31-2011, 09:07 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
This is the "training wheels of the NHL", after all.
My question is when do the training wheels come off?

With the start of our season, it looks like all of the wheels have come off

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10-31-2011, 09:11 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
The "our organization is committed to winning" must be a new thing. Nothing says winning like rookies at your key positions...president, GM, coach. Pretty much lip service at this point
I think ownership made a bad decision. The reason? Inexperience.
Ownership had never really hired a GM or a coach before. John H. McConnell undoubtedly was advised that Doug MacLean was a guru who could make his hockey business successful on and off the ice. By the time MacLean was fired, Mr. McConnell was very sick. I have to think his son did the best he could with no hockey background or experience making these decisions.

How does one get experience? Making poor decisions.

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10-31-2011, 09:17 AM
  #194
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Of course, but if he was told by multiple NHL sources. If they are reliable sources and nothing happens, is it Portzline's fault?
Again, yes it is his fault. Please understand that he doesn't need to issue a mea culpa or even apologize, in fact he can stand by his story and his source. When I say it is his fault all I am saying is that it reflects poorly on him and the Dispatch that this didn't come to fruition and was vehemently denied by all parties involved. A reporter's job is not to spew out whatever a source tells you. As a reporter it is your job to dig and verify the information or you take the source at their word which can burn you if they are wrong.

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10-31-2011, 09:19 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by astall35 View Post
Again, yes it is his fault. Please understand that he doesn't need to issue a mea culpa or even apologize, in fact he can stand by his story and his source. When I say it is his fault all I am saying is that it reflects poorly on him and the Dispatch that this didn't come to fruition and was vehemently denied by all parties involved. A reporter's job is not to spew out whatever a source tells you. As a reporter it is your job to dig and verify the information or you take the source at their word which can burn you if they are wrong.
And if big changes did happen and Porty only reported it after the fact, everyone would be all over him for being in the dark and having no information and a piss-poor beat writer and the like.

The reporter's job is to funnel information to the reader. It's the reader's job what to make of it.

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10-31-2011, 09:23 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
The "our organization is committed to winning" must be a new thing. Nothing says winning like rookies at your key positions...president, GM, coach. Pretty much lip service at this point
Sorry, I misread the president, gm, coach part.... but I'm still going to rant.

Hardly think our rookies have been the problem when you consider Johan, and John Moore have looked really good, with Johan having more goals than Vermette, and Umberger combined. To me while our defense is below average, we have the talent. Why is it,the 2 games the players have had have had closed door meetings, because they know change is coming, they bust their busts and win , and look like a different team doing so ? Why is this effort lacking most games ? My guess is that we have terrible leadership from the captain. I cant imagine Sidney Crosby (pre concussion), accepting a poor effort, most nights. How many coaches do we have to fire ? Arniel, certainly bears some of the responsibility, as he has lost us a few games with his shortening of the bench, as does Howson, for putting together this D corps, but in no way is this team a below 500 team, and that falls back on the players effort.


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10-31-2011, 09:24 AM
  #197
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Anyone ever wonder why Guy Boucher turned this job down? Think it's about time to clear the "cancer" from the room?
Because Steve Yzerman took the GM position in TB. It had little or nothing to with the CBJ, imo.

My preference would be to leave everyone in place until Christmas and see if we haven't played our way back to .500 You get back to even by the holidays and the playoffs become very tangible.

At the same time, I think an interesting scenario would be Hitch coming in to coach the remainder of the season, and the team making the playoffs. Then what do you do?

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10-31-2011, 09:32 AM
  #198
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And if big changes did happen and Porty only reported it after the fact, everyone would be all over him for being in the dark and having no information and a piss-poor beat writer and the like.

The reporter's job is to funnel information to the reader. It's the reader's job what to make of it.
You are the mod!

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10-31-2011, 09:52 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by astall35 View Post
Again, yes it is his fault. Please understand that he doesn't need to issue a mea culpa or even apologize, in fact he can stand by his story and his source. When I say it is his fault all I am saying is that it reflects poorly on him and the Dispatch that this didn't come to fruition and was vehemently denied by all parties involved. A reporter's job is not to spew out whatever a source tells you. As a reporter it is your job to dig and verify the information or you take the source at their word which can burn you if they are wrong.
So let's take this a step further. Assuming he actually dug and verified the information, and in fact the Jackets ARE considering firing either or both of them and they don't. What would be your opinion?

Not to mention, my position is exactly the same as DSL's. I was saying he reported what he was told, that they are considering making a change. He reported that.

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10-31-2011, 10:13 AM
  #200
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Figured they were going to win the game last night. Have to have the questions linger and this team can't be as bad as the 2-9-1 start indicated.

Now, can they sustain it? Last two home game have been good, have to continue that. Bigger issue is the road. Since we are playing a lot at home, we aren't going to see if they make any progress on that for a while.

If they Jackets stay on form it could be after Thanksgiving before we have any idea where they are going or if anything has truly improved. It was unlikely we were going to play at that horrid pace all year.

Either way, with the long stretches between games, it will probably be a while before anything goes down (if we don't do a complete about face).

The true question is, how well do the Jackets have to play in order to save jobs? Can we play some 82 point pace hockey and allow them to continue on?

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