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top 40 finnish prospects

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Old
09-04-2004, 10:58 PM
  #1
modestfwd
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top 40 finnish prospects

We have Immonen at the #4 prospect in Finland, with Koprikoski at #7.

Is it just me or are they being very pesimistic about Lauri, and to a lesser extent Immonen?

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09-05-2004, 12:01 AM
  #2
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It's just you

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09-05-2004, 12:13 AM
  #3
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Actually I liked the list. Too often we get to talking about prospects and ramping up the hype... this was a nice, fairly realistic, view of most of the prospects, Rangers and otherwise. I'm a little dubious on Miko Koivu (who's getting pretty old) being No.2, but without first-hand observations of his competitors, it's not like I can really quibble.

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09-05-2004, 02:16 AM
  #4
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I wouldn't knock Koivu's age, he's only 21...but, if you wanna knock his talent and possible potential, that's another story. He'll never be anything like his brother (and his brother isn't all that amazing either, still good, not amazing).

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09-05-2004, 05:34 AM
  #5
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I think in both cases both Koivu's came in a little overhyped and realistically couldnt be expected to match it.

If you go back to the early/mid 90's Saku was seen as the next great finnish player. While he's certainly good, he's hardly great.

Miko was at the time considered on a toss up level with Ruutu and unfortunatly for him, since then it's been a no contest.

I think he could be a nice player, but I just don't know if he'll ever justify the pick he was taken at.

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09-05-2004, 08:02 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej20
I wouldn't knock Koivu's age, he's only 21...but, if you wanna knock his talent and possible potential, that's another story. He'll never be anything like his brother (and his brother isn't all that amazing either, still good, not amazing).
I was at the GER - FIN game and I have to admit that some Habs fans were right: Saku = god. He was just everywhere. On the other hand, they played a weak german team.

Didn't see much of Mikko, though. Shouldn't be #2 on any list, exept maybe the "bust potential list".

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09-05-2004, 12:14 PM
  #7
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their writeup of korpikoskis is rather odd...

Quote:
During the spring Korpikoski was spoken of as a highly skilled player, but perhaps it was the Rangers' comments that turned the talk back to the track very familiar to Finns. A hard-working team player doesn't get attention on this list, but there is hope for Korpikoski's puck skills to blossom, though the odds are against him. In a non-ideal situation he can still avoid failure and make a career as a checking line speedster

odds are against korpikoski to develop as a player? he's 17 years old and he's being written off as having no puck skills? in fact his puck skills just seem to be catching on...i'm not sure what they're trying to say with that last sentence too...that at worst he'll be a checking line speedster? that's what their language seems to indicate but it's still a rather odd statement to make...

i dunno, just rather weird language and analysis in some ways, i think i'll take this one with a "grain of salt".

the immonen one was also kind of weird in terms of them saying something to the effect of he still has a long way to go in his offense and defense...well yeah it's not like he's wonderkid or something but again the language is quite negative and confusing in a way.

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09-05-2004, 12:34 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate
their writeup of korpikoskis is rather odd...




odds are against korpikoski to develop as a player? he's 17 years old and he's being written off as having no puck skills? in fact his puck skills just seem to be catching on...i'm not sure what they're trying to say with that last sentence too...that at worst he'll be a checking line speedster? that's what their language seems to indicate but it's still a rather odd statement to make...

i dunno, just rather weird language and analysis in some ways, i think i'll take this one with a "grain of salt".

the immonen one was also kind of weird in terms of them saying something to the effect of he still has a long way to go in his offense and defense...well yeah it's not like he's wonderkid or something but again the language is quite negative and confusing in a way.
Well the biggest question about Korpikoski is his overall skill level, I think thats what they were going for.

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09-05-2004, 01:35 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate
their writeup of korpikoskis is rather odd...




odds are against korpikoski to develop as a player? he's 17 years old and he's being written off as having no puck skills? in fact his puck skills just seem to be catching on...i'm not sure what they're trying to say with that last sentence too...that at worst he'll be a checking line speedster? that's what their language seems to indicate but it's still a rather odd statement to make...

i dunno, just rather weird language and analysis in some ways, i think i'll take this one with a "grain of salt".

the immonen one was also kind of weird in terms of them saying something to the effect of he still has a long way to go in his offense and defense...well yeah it's not like he's wonderkid or something but again the language is quite negative and confusing in a way.
ya I'm not to sure, to be honest it just seems all negative like they have nothing good to say about their own prospects except that chances are none will succeed. I understand being realistic, but this is almost negative, I dunno, I'm not about to put to much into this

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09-05-2004, 01:48 PM
  #10
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In an ideal situation Korpikoski will be a good 2nd-1st line LW... in a non-ideal situation Korpikoski will be a good 2nd-1st line LW. Basically, Korpikoski will be a good 2nd-1st line LW.

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09-05-2004, 03:52 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
In an ideal situation Korpikoski will be a good 2nd-1st line LW... in a non-ideal situation Korpikoski will be a good 2nd-1st line LW. Basically, Korpikoski will be a good 2nd-1st line LW.
no there's a very good chance he won't be a 2nd-1st line LW,there's no gaurentee he will succed asumming he even gets to the NHl. even if He gets there he may struggle and never get off the 3rd and fourth lines. Who knows? he's only 17! he could be anything at this point you can't say Basically, Korpikoski will be a good 2nd-1st

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09-06-2004, 01:04 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Well the biggest question about Korpikoski is his overall skill level, I think thats what they were going for.
that doesn't look to me like what they were going for...it's one thing to say "we're not completely sure what this kid has" and another to say that "it's unlikely he'll improve". was this written by someone who's first language isn't english or something? i just can't get over how weird i find some of the phrasing.

i think a fair assessment of korpikoski would be to mention how he is a bit of an unknown and how that's an issue but also touch on the good things he has shown. to me it just seems like they completely passed judgement on him and act like he's a really long shot to ever improve from where he is right now.

Quote:
no there's a very good chance he won't be a 2nd-1st line LW
not really a fan of the way you put that either...there's a CHANCE he won't be a 2nd-1st line wing, just like there's a CHANCE that he will be. that's the thing about drafting 17 year olds...i think it's really almost too early to decide if there's a "good" chance either way. right now it's just plain chance.

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09-06-2004, 01:28 PM
  #13
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Here r my 2 cents, on a couple of things. First and foremost I want to get this out of the way. Not a big difference, but still, why is everyone insisting that Korpikoski is 17? He was 17 at the time of the draft and his birthday was in July, I believe July 28th, time didn't stand still from draft time so he's not 17 anymore. Number, what bothers me most of what Levitate is saying, is that unless the Finnish prospects mostly suck, how does he get to be #7 w/ this not so flattering report? I mean they make this guy sound like he sucks yet they put him at #7, something doesn't add up.


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09-06-2004, 04:51 PM
  #14
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well yeah he's 18 now, just used to saying 17 cuz that's how old he was when drafted. point is he's still one of the youngest players in the draft

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09-06-2004, 08:21 PM
  #15
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To the point of "how strong the Finnish league is", I think you can perhaps take some direction from what has been the experience over the past few years. There are certainly some (particularly goaltenders) who have risen in the NHL, but I think perhaps the Slovaks and Czechs have been making greater impressions of late.

That's not to say there aren't some like Pitkainen...

As to Korpikoski, almost all the scouting reports that I've read about him have mentioned his lack of finishing...if he figures out a way to score then that will go a long way to fulfilling his projected 2nd line expectations and at 18 he has plenty of time.

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09-07-2004, 03:14 PM
  #16
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Anyone would can tell what a 17 yr old will be at 21

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate
their writeup of korpikoskis is rather odd...




odds are against korpikoski to develop as a player? he's 17 years old and he's being written off as having no puck skills? in fact his puck skills just seem to be catching on...i'm not sure what they're trying to say with that last sentence too...that at worst he'll be a checking line speedster? that's what their language seems to indicate but it's still a rather odd statement to make...

i dunno, just rather weird language and analysis in some ways, i think i'll take this one with a "grain of salt".

the immonen one was also kind of weird in terms of them saying something to the effect of he still has a long way to go in his offense and defense...well yeah it's not like he's wonderkid or something but again the language is quite negative and confusing in a way.

Anyone would can tell what a 17 yr old will be at 21 or older is a clown and should not be taken seriously. I'll use my own son as an example even though he plays a different sport. His coach, who is a world class player, (World Cup, Olympics, Professional player) told me that the player you see at 17 is not going to be the player you see at 18 and the 18 yr old is certainly not going to be the player you see at 21 after they are finished growing and fitting into their body. He does things now at 19-20 that he could never do at 17. It comes with maturity and growing into their body. That is why all of these rankings are a joke. Look at the heart, desire, the determination a player has to get better. Skill is relative unless you are talking a Gretzky, Lemieux, etc. it comes down more to whether a player gets the breaks in their development. They can get stuck with a coach who trys to make them into a type of player they are not. The thing to look at in Lauri is here is a kid who stepped up in the biggest tournament for amateurs. Was he hot, or did he sieze the moment. It is all about confidence, in yourself and that others him in you.

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09-08-2004, 05:39 AM
  #17
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This is so important I've logged on dial-up from Europe!

I actually don't think this review is all that negative, just poorly phrased by a non-native English speaker. It's saying that the hype on Korpikoski was on his offensive skills before the draft, whereas after the draft everyone was talking about him being a solid team player and contributor (i.e. a typical Finnish player). This was due largely to the Rangers' own post-draft comments (perhaps this was a ploy to take some of the pressure of expectation off a kid who hadn't played in the SM-Liiga yet). The reviewer says that Lauri needs to improve his puck skills, which the reviewer for some reason thinks is unlikely to happen. On the other hand (and this is the non-negative, but weirdly phrased part), even if he doesn't, he should find an effective role as a speedster on a checking line (i.e. his downside is still relatively high).

As for Immonen, I read it as saying that he can be pushed around, but his overall game is very good, both offensively and defensively, and that he has room to improve yet more--he's not yet hit his ceiling.

Sorry if this was obvious to everyone, but it seemed to me that some people had a different understanding of what was written.

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09-08-2004, 05:58 AM
  #18
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Korpikoski's description wasn't clear, I'll give it that. I crammed as much info into compact form as possible and, with fifty players to write about, tried to think of many different ways to put things. The reason the assessments seem so negative is that explaining the limits describes potential the best.

In Korpikoski's case, the following puts things into perspective: There are currently six Finns in the NHL who can play the role of an offensive forward. Over a period of ten years, in terms of offensive potential Korpikoski is very, very roughly around 15th among Finns. "The odds are against him." I'll give him 40% for a career on second line. If you go through projections for prospects in past years and see how they've turned out, you'll find that 40% isn't so little.

Dammit with you Americans. After each article I write I spend time explaining why everything just isn't so friggin' great.

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09-08-2004, 08:01 AM
  #19
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Kiitos, Laituri.

The article is very much appreciated. Sorry if we force you to explain everything, but you can rest assured that you can write English much better than any of us can write Finnish (or most other languages, probably...).

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09-08-2004, 10:37 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laituri
Dammit with you Americans. After each article I write I spend time explaining why everything just isn't so friggin' great.
Isnt that one point of making an article to have (cool head) discussions? It was very much appriciated, as you can see we dont get many articles to talk about so this is a nice discussion.

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09-10-2004, 04:32 AM
  #21
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It sure is, but my point was that the discussion is too often about the same cultural difference, Americans' tendency for empty words small-talk-like praise from our point of view. Not that the talk were a real burden.

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09-12-2004, 08:40 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KFC
no there's a very good chance he won't be a 2nd-1st line LW,there's no gaurentee he will succed asumming he even gets to the NHl. even if He gets there he may struggle and never get off the 3rd and fourth lines. Who knows? he's only 17! he could be anything at this point you can't say Basically, Korpikoski will be a good 2nd-1st
well than let me put it in simple words u can understand, i think what he means is his potential.he didnt say it was a fact but what he could be.

and to bobmarley i think the kid can be a second line lw for this team , whcih is apparentley what the staff must have thought to draft in the first and trade down a couple spots for him.Nyr is pretty solid on good young role player,grinders,pk'ers defensive players with ortmeyer and murray etc... and top 6 youth at lw is needed so in all i think he has second line potential, not first at all imo.so i do feel he was drafted to fill some type of top 6 role.

basically if the kid doesnt become second line material, if he cant produse as a top 6 fwd, then once again imo you wont see him in a rangers uniform, cause like i said nyr is pretty deep on 3rd and 4th liners.and this kid is suppose to have the potential to be up there , i dont see it really. he had a couple good games, but im not overhyped about himm as everyone else

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