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Van and Wsh Trade Proposal

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Old
09-05-2004, 09:38 AM
  #1
Jasper17
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Van and Wsh Trade Proposal

To Vancouver
Alexander Semin

To Washington
Bryan Allen

I think Semin would be great with the Sedin twins. He is a great offensive player who is still very young, and almost as important, still very cheap. The Canucks give up Allen to make the deal, but they still have great defense without him. And get a great young talent back for him.

Washington would get in my opinion a perfect long term defensive partner for Morrisonn. I think those two could be a great #1 pairing one day, and a very good paring in as little as 1-2 years (based on when the NHL starts). Yes they lose a great young talent in Semin. But I think it is better to rebuild the defense first, and this is a big step in that direction.

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09-05-2004, 09:43 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17
To Vancouver
Alexander Semin

To Washington
Bryan Allen

I think Semin would be great with the Sedin twins. He is a great offensive player who is still very young, and almost as important, still very cheap. The Canucks give up Allen to make the deal, but they still have great defense without him. And get a great young talent back for him.

Washington would get in my opinion a perfect long term defensive partner for Morrisonn. I think those two could be a great #1 pairing one day, and a very good paring in as little as 1-2 years (based on when the NHL starts). Yes they lose a great young talent in Semin. But I think it is better to rebuild the defense first, and this is a big step in that direction.
No way Washington would do it. They would laugh at Vancouver for even considering it. Semin is going to be a gem for Washington.

EDIT--- Allen is good, without a doubt, but I just believe that Washington would rather hold onto Semin.

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09-05-2004, 09:44 AM
  #3
bobbyboucher24
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The Caps won't want to move Semin as he and Ovechkin are friends and many seem to be interested in watching them play together.

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09-05-2004, 10:29 AM
  #4
Jasper17
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I understand that losing Semin would hurt a little. I am a Caps fan and i love the guy. But I think the Caps should build there defense first. As much as I love Semin, I think Allen would be able to help the Caps more now and longterm.

Just my 2 cents.

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09-05-2004, 10:30 AM
  #5
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Semin for Allen is slightly skewed towards Vancouver. While it is hard to judge two completely different players, Semin holds more trade value IMO. However, with Vancouver's lack of of crease-clearing defensemen beyond Allen I think they would be extremely hesitant of moving him unless a suitable replacement is available.

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09-05-2004, 10:38 AM
  #6
Jasper17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maruk14
Semin for Allen is slightly skewed towards Vancouver. While it is hard to judge two completely different players, Semin holds more trade value IMO. However, with Vancouver's lack of of crease-clearing defensemen beyond Allen I think they would be extremely hesitant of moving him unless a suitable replacement is available.
Well I think both teams would be hesitant to make a move like this. We are talking about each team trading there best young player (NHL ready player).

But I still think a deal like this would improve both teams.

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Old
09-05-2004, 10:52 AM
  #7
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Forget it.

I'm appalled that as a Caps fan, you even suggest this one.


Bryan Allen does have a lot of upside, and is a good player, but it's not like the Caps have offense or players to just toss around. Alexander Semin is one of the main keys to making sure the Caps are a successful team, dealing him now would be retarded.


If the Caps are going to make a move, it's going to be quantity for quality. Not quality for quality. At least not until players shake down and figure out who's actually good, and who they have a glut of.

While it would be helpful to add another defenseman, adding another younger inexperienced blueliner, (no matter how good the pedigree) is not going to make the Caps better than a winger with top line potential. If a defenseman is added in the near future, it's going to be a player or two with at least 5-7 years in the league, to help make the other solid defensive prospects the Caps do have better.

Though Ovechkin is hopefully going to be the centerpiece of a future Capitals team, players like Semin are going to take some of that burden off of him. Not to mention whoever else the Caps will draft pretty high this coming year.

Players like Semin are high risk, high reward, but they're also harder to find.


PASS! Big time.

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09-05-2004, 11:19 AM
  #8
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The value is not necessarily that far off, though I think Vancouver does somewhat better in the deal. Personally, however, I don't think the Capitals have enough offensively gifted players from the hash marks in to make this deal. Ovechkin and Semin are likely to give them legitimate first and second line scoring threats, catalysts on each line. Allen is a very good player, and his value is such that prying him loose will probably cost a player of Semin's value, but I don't think Washington can afford it.

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09-05-2004, 11:22 AM
  #9
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Jasp, you must still be oftely bored. Now you are trying to trade off Semin?? You know this would never happen. In today's NHL finding a player capable of consistantly creating offense is very difficult. The Caps are not going to trade Semin, who can do that, for anything less than a norris trophy potential young defenseman. Allen is not that and anyone with that would no more trade that player than the Caps would trade Semin.

Why don't we talk about something that could happen?

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09-05-2004, 11:32 AM
  #10
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They Canucks are in need of a crease clearing tough stay at home D-man and they trade the only one on their team that is one? God!! That trade makes no sense at all.

From a Caps standpoint i'd do it because Witt probably won't return when he's Unrestricted and the Caps will need a physical precense on the blue line. But this trade doesn't make much sense to the Canucks when they could just as easily put King, Cooke or Bertuzzi w/ the Sedins.

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09-05-2004, 11:53 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapel113x
They Canucks are in need of a crease clearing tough stay at home D-man and they trade the only one on their team that is one? God!! That trade makes no sense at all.

From a Caps standpoint i'd do it because Witt probably won't return when he's Unrestricted and the Caps will need a physical precense on the blue line. But this trade doesn't make much sense to the Canucks when they could just as easily put King, Cooke or Bertuzzi w/ the Sedins.
That's a good point i guess. I didn't realize that the Canucks were going to depend on Allen so much so soon. If Allen is a player that the Canucks can not live without then this deal does make no sense to them.

However I refuse to beleive that this deal doesn't make sense for the Caps. And I am not shocked at all that most Caps fans don't like the deal, I'd say a good number don't know who Allen is.

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09-05-2004, 11:58 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
The value is not necessarily that far off, though I think Vancouver does somewhat better in the deal. Personally, however, I don't think the Capitals have enough offensively gifted players from the hash marks in to make this deal. Ovechkin and Semin are likely to give them legitimate first and second line scoring threats, catalysts on each line. Allen is a very good player, and his value is such that prying him loose will probably cost a player of Semin's value, but I don't think Washington can afford it.
Drake, you are one of the guys from the Caps board I really respect for there knowledge of the game.

And you are right, Ovechkin and Semin could be a great 1-2 punch. However the Caps defense is in worse shape than the Caps offense. And I still think they need to address the defense first.

Obviously there are negatives to trading a player like Semin, but I think there are more positives in this deal for the Caps then negatives.

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09-05-2004, 12:00 PM
  #13
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I like Semin and think he is going to be a good NHL'er, but the Canucks' can't afford to trade away Allen at this time. They are more in need of a player of Allen's ilk then of Semin's.

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09-05-2004, 12:14 PM
  #14
Jasper17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
I like Semin and think he is going to be a good NHL'er, but the Canucks' can't afford to trade away Allen at this time. They are more in need of a player of Allen's ilk then of Semin's.
I think that is the general consensus of most. I really didn't think Allen was as needed as you and others think he is. And to be honest, I am still not to sure if I do.

But anyway, thanks for the input.

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09-05-2004, 01:02 PM
  #15
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I amazed at the abuse Jasper is getting here for a sensible deal that would help both teams.

For the reasons described above by both Nuck and Cap fans, I don't think it would fly. But, it is a smart proposal that could work out well for both teams.

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09-05-2004, 01:10 PM
  #16
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a weird one, as it takes away a need in vancouver (allen) but also adds to a need (offensively dynamic youth)..

however as each team, i wouldn't do it, as washington i'd still bank on yonkman being a big lower pairing mean guy and work with witt on staying.. or just signing some tougher dmen for cheap with leadership ala florida with hill.. i'd also be too afraid to pass up a combo of ovechkin and semin and what they could potentially bring

as vancouver i wouldn't do it because they've invested so much time into allen and so much patience, and he's slowly showing more and more promise, however still at inconsistent times... also, with vancouver a couple pieces away from being a TRUE contender, i wouldn't bank on a youngster to play on a top two line, whereas if semin falters this deal is a huge loss for vancouver in their position..

a neat proposal, very fair, very interesting, but one i don't believe either team would make

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09-05-2004, 01:21 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I amazed at the abuse Jasper is getting here for a sensible deal that would help both teams.

For the reasons described above by both Nuck and Cap fans, I don't think it would fly. But, it is a smart proposal that could work out well for both teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
a weird one, as it takes away a need in vancouver (allen) but also adds to a need (offensively dynamic youth)..

however as each team, i wouldn't do it, as washington i'd still bank on yonkman being a big lower pairing mean guy and work with witt on staying.. or just signing some tougher dmen for cheap with leadership ala florida with hill.. i'd also be too afraid to pass up a combo of ovechkin and semin and what they could potentially bring

as vancouver i wouldn't do it because they've invested so much time into allen and so much patience, and he's slowly showing more and more promise, however still at inconsistent times... also, with vancouver a couple pieces away from being a TRUE contender, i wouldn't bank on a youngster to play on a top two line, whereas if semin falters this deal is a huge loss for vancouver in their position..

a neat proposal, very fair, very interesting, but one i don't believe either team would make
Agreed.

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09-05-2004, 01:32 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I amazed at the abuse Jasper is getting here for a sensible deal that would help both teams.

For the reasons described above by both Nuck and Cap fans, I don't think it would fly. But, it is a smart proposal that could work out well for both teams.
I have to agree with Darth, it's a good proposal. The One thing the Caps need is to add defense who is NHL ready. Semin is a high price to pay. Allen is a good player.

How about this counter:

Semin and Witt for Allen Sopel and a 1st.

I break it down this way:
Semin>Allen by a small bit
Witt>Sopel
Hence the #1 pick.

Caps add defense, adding Sopel and Allen to Morrisonn, Eminger, Yonkman, and Boomer or Cutta and you have a defense that can develop. Flame away.

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09-05-2004, 01:38 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borro
I have to agree with Darth, it's a good proposal. The One thing the Caps need is to add defense who is NHL ready. Semin is a high price to pay. Allen is a good player.

How about this counter:

Semin and Witt for Allen Sopel and a 1st.

I break it down this way:
Semin>Allen by a small bit
Witt>Sopel
Hence the #1 pick.

Caps add defense, adding Sopel and Allen to Morrisonn, Eminger, Yonkman, and Boomer or Cutta and you have a defense that can develop. Flame away.
1st rounder is too much to give up.

Semin and Witt for Allen, Sopel and a 3rd or something. The deal would never happen, but its not like its lopsided or anything.

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09-05-2004, 01:51 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17
To Vancouver
Alexander Semin

To Washington
Bryan Allen

I think Semin would be great with the Sedin twins. He is a great offensive player who is still very young, and almost as important, still very cheap. The Canucks give up Allen to make the deal, but they still have great defense without him. And get a great young talent back for him.

Washington would get in my opinion a perfect long term defensive partner for Morrisonn. I think those two could be a great #1 pairing one day, and a very good paring in as little as 1-2 years (based on when the NHL starts). Yes they lose a great young talent in Semin. But I think it is better to rebuild the defense first, and this is a big step in that direction.
Semin can be better, but Allen is a lock for the future to be a top 4 guy. Allen is also the type of defensman the Canucks need more of.

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09-05-2004, 02:29 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuzzi21
1st rounder is too much to give up.

Semin and Witt for Allen, Sopel and a 3rd or something. The deal would never happen, but its not like its lopsided or anything.
Don't forget that Witt is an impending UFA.

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09-05-2004, 02:34 PM
  #22
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I don't think this trade is far-off valuewise...in fact in that regard it makes a lot of sense and as Jasper mentioned I think the Caps fans who are complaining about it don't know who Allen is or how high an upside he has (not knocking Semin here either).

A well-thought out proposal and if I were a GM presented with it from either side I'd definitely give it some thought.

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Old
09-05-2004, 02:35 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borro
How about this counter:

Semin and Witt for Allen Sopel and a 1st.
I don't see why the Canucks would do this. Witt helps to replace Allen right now, and is likely an upgrade short term, but Allen is 5 years younger, cheaper, and many feel will be a better player in the not too distant future. At absolute best, Witt is the Canucks' 3rd d-man, but I would put him behind Salo, just like Allen. Also, losing Sopel and his RHS hurts the team as well, leaving just Salo as the Canuck's only RHS on the back-end. The Canucks' PP hurt enough last year, it would only be worse without Sopel on the point. I wouldn't even consider this deal from a Canucks' POV.

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09-05-2004, 02:43 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borro

How about this counter:

Semin and Witt for Allen Sopel and a 1st.

I break it down this way:
Semin>Allen by a small bit
Witt>Sopel
Hence the #1 pick.
I don't think Witt is that much better than Sopel. A 2nd may be close, but not a first.

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09-05-2004, 02:44 PM
  #25
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forget any proposal with Allen unless it includes a young, top-4 with top pairing potential, stay-at-home physical crease clearing defensemen. and a swap of such defensemen makes no sense.

i'm sorry, but for those that thinks that swapping Allen for Semin helps the Canucks, needs to watch a few Canucks games. i'd easily take another physical crease clearing defensemen over a scoring winger right now. scoring is not the Canucks' problem, it's their soft defense that can't clear the net. Allen was a Godsend for them and at the end of the season was playing 20+ minutes (25 on some nights). not to mention he and Keane turned around one of the league's worst penalty kills into one of the best. the kid is a genious on the PK.

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