The Draft Thread -- Movin' On Back... The March for #13!
Time to get this up and running. Supposedly very deep draft with great high-end talent at the top and Buffalo has three picks in the top two rounds at the moment.
It's never too early to start thinking about it...
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
I'm glad that you created this thread (I was going to after you suggested it but it slipped my mind) just so I don't have to see my username near a stickied thread all year.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe our picks are as follows: 1st (own), 2nd (own), 2nd (CAL), 3rd (own), 5th (own), 6th (own), 7th (own), 7th (CHI)
Our 4th was traded to NYI for the negotiating rights to Ehrhoff.
Calgary's 2nd was obtained in the Regehr trade and Chicago's 7th was obtained in exchange for negotiating rights to Montador.
This draft has good depth yet again, but unlike last year, it has legitimate elite talents and there is depth there too.
I'm going to wait a month of two before deciding where the talent will start to drop off, but I can safely say that the top 60 (where we currently have three picks) will have loads of talent just like last year.
And here's the ISS list for October:
While I usually agree with ISS, I am not a big fan of this list, but I expect it will improve over the course of the season.
The positions of the following players are wrong: Forsberg (listed as RW, but can also play C), Galchenyuk (listed as RW, is really a C), and Grigorenko (listed as RW, is really a C).
At this point, my favorite prospect that will realistically be available to us is Zemgus Girgensons.
However, I am very sure that he will go higher than 23rd because he is not the 23rd best player.
At this point, he should be rated as a top 15 player and he is personally in my top 10 (as you can see, this year I'm going to try to not underrate players, like I did with guys like Scheifele and Zibanejad, so that I won't be disappointed when they aren't available when we pick).
He is a complete player and if anyone is interested in a more detailed scouting report, I'd be happy to share my thoughts on him (and pretty much any other player, for that matter, as I have seen most of the players on the ISS list at some point).
At some point, I'll probably post about some of the WNY kids available too, as there seem to be quite a few this year.
Also, for those of you who hate European players, jump on the "trade our 1st" bandwagon, as there are a lot of good ones available.
He is a complete player and if anyone is interested in a more detailed scouting report, I'd be happy to share my thoughts on him (and pretty much any other player, for that matter, as I have seen most of the players on the ISS list at some point).
At some point, I'll probably post about some of the WNY kids available too, as there seem to be quite a few this year.
Also, for those of you who hate European players, jump on the "trade our 1st" bandwagon, as there are a lot of good ones available.
I'm just wondering how have you seen all these players? In person? Video? (I hope you don't read this as me being antagonistic - even if it was all just second-hand write-ups on players that is impressive and way more than I have seen - I am just genuinely curious and looking for pointers on learning more about the prospects).
I'm glad that you created this thread (I was going to after you suggested it but it slipped my mind) just so I don't have to see my username near a stickied thread all year.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe our picks are as follows: 1st (own), 2nd (own), 2nd (CAL), 3rd (own), 5th (own), 6th (own), 7th (own), 7th (CHI)
Our 4th was traded to NYI for the negotiating rights to Ehrhoff.
Calgary's 2nd was obtained in the Regehr trade and Chicago's 7th was obtained in exchange for negotiating rights to Montador.
This draft has good depth yet again, but unlike last year, it has legitimate elite talents and there is depth there too.
I'm going to wait a month of two before deciding where the talent will start to drop off, but I can safely say that the top 60 (where we currently have three picks) will have loads of talent just like last year.
And here's the ISS list for October:
While I usually agree with ISS, I am not a big fan of this list, but I expect it will improve over the course of the season.
The positions of the following players are wrong: Forsberg (listed as RW, but can also play C), Galchenyuk (listed as RW, is really a C), and Grigorenko (listed as RW, is really a C).
At this point, my favorite prospect that will realistically be available to us is Zemgus Girgensons.
However, I am very sure that he will go higher than 23rd because he is not the 23rd best player.
At this point, he should be rated as a top 15 player and he is personally in my top 10 (as you can see, this year I'm going to try to not underrate players, like I did with guys like Scheifele and Zibanejad, so that I won't be disappointed when they aren't available when we pick).
He is a complete player and if anyone is interested in a more detailed scouting report, I'd be happy to share my thoughts on him (and pretty much any other player, for that matter, as I have seen most of the players on the ISS list at some point).
At some point, I'll probably post about some of the WNY kids available too, as there seem to be quite a few this year.
Also, for those of you who hate European players, jump on the "trade our 1st" bandwagon, as there are a lot of good ones available.
I've never seen them make a mistake (or if they have, they correct things pretty quickly).
What a difference a year makes. At this point last season, we fans were looking at a top 5 pick (including a couple of days as the worst team in the league during November) and now expectations have been seriously raised.
That said, in terms of philosophy, I agree that anything shy of a key long-term piece at the deadline is likely more pricey than they should be looking to add. In a deep draft with multiple high picks, stock the cupboard for subsiquent moves or make a move at the draft itself when acquisition costs are less than the deadline.
Interesting tidbit on the Monty compensation pick:
Quote:
Predators (conditional if Sulzer re-signs with Panthers)
Traded Alexander Sulzer to Panthers for 2012 conditional seventh round pick (if Sulzer re-signs with Panthers) (?-?) on 2011-02-25
Blackhawks (conditional if Predators do not receive pick from Panthers)
Traded Tomas Kopecky to Predators for 2012 or 2013 conditional seventh round pick (?-?) on 2011-06-27
Sabres (if Blackhawks receive pick from Panthers from earlier trade)
Traded rights to Steve Montador to Blackhawks for 2012 or 2013 seventh round pick (2012 if Blackhawks receive pick from Panthers from earlier trade, else 2013) (?-?) on 2011-06-29
And the personal dig of the day -- can someone tell me again about Couturier's skating issues? Yeah. That guy. Who'll be in the Flyers lineup on Wednesday? Yeah, that bum. (Yes that is sarcasm.)
And the personal dig of the day -- can someone tell me again about Couturier's skating issues? Yeah. That guy. Who'll be in the Flyers lineup on Wednesday? Yeah, that bum. (Yes that is sarcasm.)
Still love the kid's overall game.
I wanted to put my head through my monitor when some were bashing him for his World Juniors performance.
How about who will be available to us in the top 10 after Darth trades our #30 pick for a top 10 pick and a salary dump?
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsaas
I'm just wondering how have you seen all these players? In person? Video? (I hope you don't read this as me being antagonistic - even if it was all just second-hand write-ups on players that is impressive and way more than I have seen - I am just genuinely curious and looking for pointers on learning more about the prospects).
I scout all of them using video.
If you dig hard enough, there's usually some way to watch them, whether it's live or archived.
I've wasted lots of time just watching games, so I've ended up seeing most of them at least once.
Like last years crop, I've followed them since they've been on the scene (in the case of O and Q kids, since they were selected in bantam drafts).
I've never seen them make a mistake (or if they have, they correct things pretty quickly).
What a difference a year makes. At this point last season, we fans were looking at a top 5 pick (including a couple of days as the worst team in the league during November) and now expectations have been seriously raised.
That said, in terms of philosophy, I agree that anything shy of a key long-term piece at the deadline is likely more pricey than they should be looking to add. In a deep draft with multiple high picks, stock the cupboard for subsiquent moves or make a move at the draft itself when acquisition costs are less than the deadline.
Interesting tidbit on the Monty compensation pick:
Odd.
So because Sulzer didn't re-sign with Florida, they retained their pick and traded it to the Hawks for Kopecky.
That means we get a '12 pick, but is it the Hawks or Panthers?
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
And the personal dig of the day -- can someone tell me again about Couturier's skating issues? Yeah. That guy. Who'll be in the Flyers lineup on Wednesday? Yeah, that bum. (Yes that is sarcasm.)
Still love the kid's overall game.
Heh, I got so tired of that argument.
What about the guy who Sens fans claim their scouts disliked so much that they walked out of a game he was playing in? (And I guarantee that if they had picked him, this tidbit would have never appeared.)
Oh yeah, it's the same guy that's still doing just fine in the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15
I wanted to put my head through my monitor when some were bashing him for his World Juniors performance.
Same.
At least circumstances out of our control prevented us from trading up to possibly select him or we would have had to hear the same stupid arguments.
And the personal dig of the day -- can someone tell me again about Couturier's skating issues? Yeah. That guy. Who'll be in the Flyers lineup on Wednesday? Yeah, that bum. (Yes that is sarcasm.)
Still love the kid's overall game.
Couldn't believe he lasted all the way to 8th overall. It made me want to puke when I heard the flyers took him. Look forward to watching this kid play for a long time.
Couldn't believe he lasted all the way to 8th overall. It made me want to puke when I heard the flyers took him. Look forward to watching this kid play for a long time.
I was sooooooo hoping that Darcy would trade up, somehow someway to get this guy.
Jfb/Chain, How deep is the pool for top end centers in this years draft? Will we have a decent shot at getting a difference maker in the mid 20's? Or even early second round?
Jfb/Chain, How deep is the pool for top end centers in this years draft? Will we have a decent shot at getting a difference maker in the mid 20's? Or even early second round?
Unfortunately, the high end pivots seem to be rare this year.
There's Galchenyuk, Girgensons, Grigorenko, and if you count him, Forsberg.
I'm fairly sure that all of them will go in the top 15 (even Galchenyuk, who suffered a season ending ACL injury) because there are many teams out there that realize elite centers are the heart of good teams.
The rest of the centers available seem to be #2 guys, but more are bound to emerge throughout the season.
Center is the position I key in on, so I'm sure I'll end up posting about some other candidates eventually.
The strength of this draft is unfortunately defense and that's been clear for about two years, which is why I felt like we had to give preference to forwards last year.
There are also some good wingers, but outside of the elite ones, the only one I like right now is Pontus Åberg.
There will be some who obsess over Frk, but he just doesn't do it for me.
He has already missed almost two months with a concussion and the only part of his game that doesn't need major work is his scoring ability.
On top of that, the spear on Gudbranson (to the groin area, no less) at the WJC last year really left a bad impression on me.
Just horrible decision making and self-control, as that is never acceptable at any time.
So, realistically we'll probably end up having a shot at a couple 2C's.
Most of them have acceptable size, which makes me incredibly happy.
Unfortunately, the high end pivots seem to be rare this year.
There's Galchenyuk, Girgensons, Grigorenko, and if you count him, Forsberg.
I'm fairly sure that all of them will go in the top 15 (even Galchenyuk, who suffered a season ending ACL injury) because there are many teams out there that realize elite centers are the heart of good teams.
The rest of the centers available seem to be #2 guys, but more are bound to emerge throughout the season.
Center is the position I key in on, so I'm sure I'll end up posting about some other candidates eventually.
The strength of this draft is unfortunately defense and that's been clear for about two years, which is why I felt like we had to give preference to forwards last year.
There are also some good wingers, but outside of the elite ones, the only one I like right now is Pontus*Åberg.
There will be some who obsess over Frk, but he just doesn't do it for me.
He has already missed almost two months with a concussion and the only part of his game that doesn't need major work is his scoring ability.
On top of that, the spear on Gudbranson (to the groin area, no less) at the WJC last year really left a bad impression on me.
Just horrible decision self-control, as that is never acceptable.
So, realistically we'll probably end up having a shot at a couple 2C's.
Most of them have acceptable size, which makes me incredibly happy.
Oh wow, that explains why he's so low in those rankings, last I heard I thought he was a top 5 pick.
Hopefully teams get worried and he slides, I'd love for the Sabres to gamble on him given our need for an elite center prospect. And there's no "Russian" factor since he's (part) American and playing over here anyways.
How about who will be available to us in the top 10 after Darth trades our #30 pick for a top 10 pick and a salary dump?
I scout all of them using video.
If you dig hard enough, there's usually some way to watch them, whether it's live or archived.
I've wasted lots of time just watching games, so I've ended up seeing most of them at least once.
Like last years crop, I've followed them since they've been on the scene (in the case of O and Q kids, since they were selected in bantam drafts).
At this point, my favorite prospect that will realistically be available to us is Zemgus Girgensons.
However, I am very sure that he will go higher than 23rd because he is not the 23rd best player.
At this point, he should be rated as a top 15 player and he is personally in my top 10 (as you can see, this year I'm going to try to not underrate players, like I did with guys like Scheifele and Zibanejad, so that I won't be disappointed when they aren't available when we pick).
He is a complete player and if anyone is interested in a more detailed scouting report, I'd be happy to share my thoughts on him (and pretty much any other player, for that matter, as I have seen most of the players on the ISS list at some point).
At some point, I'll probably post about some of the WNY kids available too, as there seem to be quite a few this year.
Also, for those of you who hate European players, jump on the "trade our 1st" bandwagon, as there are a lot of good ones available.
Yes, please. I'd love to see your reports to about anyone.
A guy that has an intriguing skill package is Jordan Schmaltz (physical offensive d-man). How would you describe the rest of his game - especially his defense - and would you call him a "project" at this point?
Two guys that are ranked relatively high and that I haven't read much about are Maidens and Athanasiou. Any infos about those guys would be very much appreciated.
“There was a buzz around the Northeast about him,” Montgomery noted. “I knew he was committed to Vermont and that he could be an impact player even at 16.”
And that’s another dazzling element behind Girgensons; he’s still so young. The powerful center isn’t draft eligible until 2012, meaning he has a lot of time to hone his skills. Fortunately, passion is not a problem. His coach even brings up names such as Jonathan Toews and Mark Messier to describe the youngster’s will.
“At the beginning of the year, we had all our players write down their two best attributes,” Montgomery recalled. “Zemgus wrote ‘puck protection’ and ‘I will never give up.’ And I couldn’t agree more. I describe him as a relentless player. His intensity, his never-say-die attitude; you would think he comes from Moose Jaw.”
Oh wow, that explains why he's so low in those rankings, last I heard I thought he was a top 5 pick.
Hopefully teams get worried and he slides, I'd love for the Sabres to gamble on him given our need for an elite center prospect. And there's no "Russian" factor since he's (part) American and playing over here anyways.
I doubt he slides really far unless there's something wrong medically.
Losing a whole year of development isn't the best situation, but he's probably already far ahead of the curve.
You're right that there's not really a Russian factor there as far as being quick to go home, but I think that he'll still face the usual European/Russian criticisms when it comes to his game.
He grew up playing a Russian style game because he only spent a couple years of his life in North America (I believe he was back in Europe before he would have even started school and only recently came back to play for CYA in 2009).
A lot of people like to compare him to Marian Hossa and I see a lot of similarities, including his ability to be an enigma at times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn
Yes, please. I'd love to see your reports to about anyone.
A guy that has an intriguing skill package is Jordan Schmaltz (physical offensive d-man). How would you describe the rest of his game - especially his defense - and would you call him a "project" at this point?
Two guys that are ranked relatively high and that I haven't read much about are Maidens and Athanasiou. Any infos about those guys would be very much appreciated.
My take on Girgensons: he's absolutely a complete player as far as I'm concerned.
He plays all 200 feet, goes to the tough areas to score and retrieve pucks, and plays with his heart on his sleeve.
He loves to set the tone, whether it's with physical play, work ethic, or by using his skills to generate chances.
He's exactly the type of player this team needs (and pretty much any team, honestly) and is the kind that winning teams have because he gives his all every game.
As for Schmaltz, he's really not physical.
Last I saw, he's 6'2'' 190lbs but still looks more like the 175 that the USHL site lists him as.
I've only watched him play one game this season and I'm probably not going to bother watching again unless his team picks up their play.
They are just scary bad and it's not even really worth watching them while they are playing a team with another interesting prospect because their play is so poor right now.
I'll probably end up watching him at the Junior A challenge next week though, as there are some interesting kids in that tournament.
From what I saw though, he seemed like a very poised player.
He knew when to jump into the play and make things happen, and when he did, you could tell he was very good at it.
He seems to have good hockey sense and vision and the tools to use them (very good passing and shooting ability).
He's a good skater, but I didn't really see another gear that allowed him to make really dynamic rushes.
He's smooth and pretty strong on his skates, though.
Defensively, he made the correct read most of the time and didn't get himself into too much trouble when jumping into the offense, but there's really no physicality there at all; he opted to use his stick in just about every situation.
Whichever team drafts him will likely insist that he keeps his commitment to North Dakota, as he's exactly the type of player that will benefit greatly from having more time.
He needs to be in the weight room often if he's going to have success in the NHL, because even if he isn't going to initiate physical battles, he'll need to be able to deal with any that come his way.
Playing against more mature competition will also help.
If Windsor successfully recruits him, I think he'll just end up stagnating.
I really like Maidens, he reminds me of Luke Adam.
He's a big body like him that has good hockey sense and is more of a goal scorer that likes to go to the tough areas to score them.
He has the same skating issues as Luke too in the sense that he's a little rough getting to top speed, but he's fine when he gets there.
I'll always remember him for scoring the OHL championship winner in OT against Mississauga, completing 2/3's of Dave Cameron's 2011 trifecta of failure (losing gold with a large lead in the WJC, losing the OHL final on home ice, and later losing the Memorial Cup on home ice).
A lot of people were really high on Athanasiou after his performance at the Ivan Hlinka and at the R&D camp, but he's getting some criticism now that the spotlight is on him.
He's one of those players who has quick feet but his head's a second behind.
He has some sick puck handling skills, but I don't know if they will really translate to much success in the NHL.
I haven't watched him yet this year, but he was really one dimensional last season.
Not really a fan, personally.
Holy ****, that's alot more detailed than I expected.
As for Schmaltz I think I've mixed up his scouting reports with Dumba's. I know one of them has been compared to Phaneuf, but with better skating ability.
