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Terry Murray appreciation thread

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Old
11-02-2011, 05:35 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
At what point do we hold the players accountable for failing to execute what the coach is asking of them? Ever?
Sure, but if the coach was asking them and they weren't doing it, don't you think we would see some evidence of that?

"Hey Kopitar, I've asked you 50 times to move your ass on the powerplay and you're not doing it. You're sitting until you get it through your think skull."

Obviously that is extreme, but I would think that there would be SOME sort of evidence of something like that if this were truly happening. Of course, in Terry Murray's retarded mind, Dustin Brown can turn the puck over at both bluelines 4 times on one shift and have nothing happen, but Dustin Frolov turns the puck over once and he's demoted to the 4th line or the press box, so who the hell knows.

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Old
11-02-2011, 05:37 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
At what point do we hold the players accountable for failing to execute what the coach is asking of them? Ever?
It just depends. See some people here blame the coach. Others blame the players. Others blame the GM for the coach and the players. Then there are some that blame the GM and the coach but pick and choose which players to blame for their misery. Then when all else fails, criticize other Kings fans because they made wise decision of not becoming a fan not 20, 30 or 40 years ago. Some how their misery makes them more noble and their wisdom must be taken as gospel. Anything less and you are just rationalizing. I believe that is pretty much how it works.

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Old
11-02-2011, 05:40 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
When are the players in the results phase of their tenure?

You are still asking 3 relatively young defensemen to generate offense. Sometimes they make a bad decision and more often than not they are cautious because they don't want to be the cause of an outnumbered attack for the other team.
Are you really trying to still use the youth card? When does that end? After 3 full NHL season, you can't keep using the youth card. Martinez is the only young defenseman on the Kings. Voynov had no problem jumping into the play and was rewarded with 2 goals against Dallas. Maybe the other 3 have been around Terry too long and can't break the habit of backing off instead of looking for opportunities to jump into the cylce/attacks.

Every player makes a bad decisions during games, it's going to happen and if the coach has them too scared to make a mistake, then you are going to continue to see the players hesitate on the ice. Those split seconds cost you chances on both ends.

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It's like I said with the PP last year. You think Kompon was telling Kopitar to keep is ass glued to the half-wall and not move? I don't.
Last year, yes, I do think Kompon wants Kopitar along the half wall with the defense on the points. This year he has the weak side defenseman pinch down low more often, especially 4-on-3, but Kopitar is still on the half wall. This is by design. Richards has been more of a rover once they setup in the zone. Brown down low or in front of the net.

The second unit seems to have less structure and has looked better overall with less results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
At what point do we hold the players accountable for failing to execute what the coach is asking of them? Ever?
We only get bits and pieces of what he is really asking from players. Since you are happy with the current defense only system and the Kings team defense is top 10, shouldn't the players get the credit for that, along with Murray? They are doing exactly what he wants.

Hopefully this new message will stick longer than 10-15 games. It's the first I've read of this strategy from Murray and I've never seen the Kings play it for the past 3+ years, so it must be new. If he has really been saying this for 3+ years, then the team has tuned him out a long time ago and that is as big of a problem, but I don't believe that.

The biggest 2 whipping boys are Penner and Stoll. They have been on the ice for only 3 and 2 goals against respectively. How is that failing? It takes time for players to get going offensively, if at all, in a defense only system.


I'm not saying that Murray should be fired, but all signs point to a good offense to win in the playoffs. It's time for Murray to get this roster into the top 10. And it sounds like he is changing it up to get them there. If this is truly a new message to the team, it is up to the players to execute the new direction. Murray still has 9 games until we are 20 games into the season. Scoring 3 goals per game should get the Kings into the top half of the league at the 20 game mark. Give them confidence to continue and keep it going for 82 games.

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Old
11-02-2011, 06:06 PM
  #129
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haven't read the whole thread but just in case it hasn't been mentioned my problems with murray started in the most part when he didn;t call time out in the second period of the playoffs and let that 4 goal lead get away on a young team that should have been routine , go down to your local rink and watch a peewee game and the coach call t/o every time in that situation

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Old
11-02-2011, 06:27 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
It just depends. See some people here blame the coach. Others blame the players. Others blame the GM for the coach and the players. Then there are some that blame the GM and the coach but pick and choose which players to blame for their misery. Then when all else fails, criticize other Kings fans because they made wise decision of not becoming a fan not 20, 30 or 40 years ago. Some how their misery makes them more noble and their wisdom must be taken as gospel. Anything less and you are just rationalizing. I believe that is pretty much how it works.
Well said.

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11-02-2011, 07:06 PM
  #131
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We only get bits and pieces of what he is really asking from players. Since you are happy with the current defense only system and the Kings team defense is top 10, shouldn't the players get the credit for that, along with Murray? They are doing exactly what he wants.

I don't think its a defense only system. It's a puck control system. And because of that there's never going to be a lot of exciting slick plays. There's not a lot of improvisation. That's why Purcell and Moulson couldn't play in this system. They couldn't keep to it.

It's getting opened up now because the players we have, who do get it, are playing with instinct, and making the correct moves and adjustments on the fly, with instinct and speed rather than thinking it through. That's why the offensive zone time has improved this year.

It's system in which the team shines rather than individuals - you lose the flash. Which a lot of people mistake for "winning hockey".

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Old
11-02-2011, 07:52 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
It just depends. See some people here blame the coach. Others blame the players. Others blame the GM for the coach and the players. Then there are some that blame the GM and the coach but pick and choose which players to blame for their misery. Then when all else fails, criticize other Kings fans because they made wise decision of not becoming a fan not 20, 30 or 40 years ago. Some how their misery makes them more noble and their wisdom must be taken as gospel. Anything less and you are just rationalizing. I believe that is pretty much how it works.
This post should be stickied at the top of this board

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Old
11-03-2011, 08:53 PM
  #133
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There are also some who specifically outline in great detail their opinions in regards to where the actual problems with our coaching actually are and then back them up statistically and or with vid clips to support their arguments only to be forced to deal with the mindless drivel and "nuh uh" responses.

So much so that they just don't bother.

I do agree though largely with what you are saying Buddy, excellent observation.

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Old
11-03-2011, 08:53 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
We only get bits and pieces of what he is really asking from players. Since you are happy with the current defense only system and the Kings team defense is top 10, shouldn't the players get the credit for that, along with Murray? They are doing exactly what he wants.

I don't think its a defense only system. It's a puck control system. And because of that there's never going to be a lot of exciting slick plays. There's not a lot of improvisation. That's why Purcell and Moulson couldn't play in this system. They couldn't keep to it.

It's getting opened up now because the players we have, who do get it, are playing with instinct, and making the correct moves and adjustments on the fly, with instinct and speed rather than thinking it through. That's why the offensive zone time has improved this year.

It's system in which the team shines rather than individuals - you lose the flash. Which a lot of people mistake for "winning hockey".
Excellent as always Duc

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Old
11-03-2011, 09:09 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
There are also some who specifically outline in great detail their opinions in regards to where the actual problems with our coaching actually are and then back them up statistically and or with vid clips to support their arguments only to be forced to deal with the mindless drivel and "nuh uh" responses.

So much so that they just don't bother.

I do agree though largely with what you are saying Buddy, excellent observation.
Where the heck have you been? Glad to see you back.

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Old
11-03-2011, 09:15 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
There are also some who specifically outline in great detail their opinions in regards to where the actual problems with our coaching actually are and then back them up statistically and or with vid clips to support their arguments only to be forced to deal with the mindless drivel and "nuh uh" responses.
Very, very, very well said.

I would also like to add, and I know we have discussed this before, some people want to cherry pick certain aspects of coaching or management.

For instance they want to credit the Kings for finding guys like VV, Simmonds, Clifford, Martinez etc and say how great our scouting is. And I agree, the finds in the later rounds have been excellent. But then someone like me brings up Lewis, Teubert, Hickey etc. the immediate response is to say the draft is a crap shoot or there is variance involved. But really doesn't it go both ways? If we are going to praise the 2nd round picks isn't it fair to criticize the 1st rounders?

Welcome back, btw.

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Old
11-03-2011, 09:28 PM
  #137
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Very, very, very well said.

I would also like to add, and I know we have discussed this before, some people want to cherry pick certain aspects of coaching or management.

For instance they want to credit the Kings for finding guys like VV, Simmonds, Clifford, Martinez etc and say how great our scouting is. And I agree, the finds in the later rounds have been excellent. But then someone like me brings up Lewis, Teubert, Hickey etc. the immediate response is to say the draft is a crap shoot or there is variance involved. But really doesn't it go both ways? If we are going to praise the 2nd round picks isn't it fair to criticize the 1st rounders?

Welcome back, btw.
It's fair, but you always seem to leave out guys like Doughty and Bernier in your assessment. The work done by the Kings in the draft the last 5 years has been very solid. Do you deny that?

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Old
11-03-2011, 09:46 PM
  #138
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It's fair, but you always seem to leave out guys like Doughty and Bernier in your assessment. The work done by the Kings in the draft the last 5 years has been very solid. Do you deny that?
Bernier hasn't proven much. I do like him. But lets see him be an everyday starter before we praise him.

I believe I have praised Doughty more than most here. I think it's great we were in a position to draft a generational talent. I think it was a bit of a no-brainer pick, but I will give the Kings credit for making the pick. yes that's a plus.

I also think Schenn was a very good pick, I would have preferred MPS but he was a good player that was able to be traded for a star player.

I have already said the later round picks have been much better than most teams.

I have simply said in this thread it's very disturbing that the Kings reached with Hickey (obviously there guy), they traded up to get Lewis, they traded up to get Teubert and they traded up to get Forbort. These are obviously guys that were targeted by the Kings.

So to answer your question, the Kings have drafted one generational talent, one very good prospect and one bust with three top 5 picks. The rest of the first round leaves a lot to be desired, IMO.

I would say the drafting in the later rounds is A, and the first round has been a B- mostly because of how special DD is.

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Old
11-03-2011, 09:51 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Where the heck have you been? Glad to see you back.
I am on the road early this year and have even been to Oregon (winterhawks) and will be heading out to B.C. for the second time this year 11/17. With this coming draft said to be a big one I am getting allot of early things to do.

I might even have seen the next "almost" great one play. I am slowly doing another long winded write up for here for Thanksgiving on the best of the bunch.

I stop by and read when I can.

You guys have it locked down and I am always just reading and nodding most of the time.

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Old
11-03-2011, 10:01 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Very, very, very well said.

I would also like to add, and I know we have discussed this before, some people want to cherry pick certain aspects of coaching or management.

For instance they want to credit the Kings for finding guys like VV, Simmonds, Clifford, Martinez etc and say how great our scouting is. And I agree, the finds in the later rounds have been excellent. But then someone like me brings up Lewis, Teubert, Hickey etc. the immediate response is to say the draft is a crap shoot or there is variance involved. But really doesn't it go both ways? If we are going to praise the 2nd round picks isn't it fair to criticize the 1st rounders?

Welcome back, btw.
Thanks big H.

I agree with what you are saying but am one of the people who think that our scouting staff will end up being seen as one of the greatest of all time by the time things are said and done. To my way of thinking, if they end up on the team and are excellent which is happening more often than ever before then the same people should get the credit because they are the ones making the recommendations.

Advance scouting is as much of an art as future scouting and in the end all the work winds up in the same place.

I can't believe how great we are at picking up NHL caliber players.


It is fair to hammer the 1st round failures but I can tell you how every team from the GM on through think about how drafts work to a large extent. Each year's success is based on the number of players who are NHL viable. The round that they are picked in doesn't matter as much as the total amount of players who can be converted into NHL players.

I am not saying that it is acceptable to boot the 1st round pick each year but other than top 10 picks the rest are pretty much seen as any other pick for the most part.


Its a weird thing.

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Old
11-03-2011, 10:08 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Bernier hasn't proven much. I do like him. But lets see him be an everyday starter before we praise him.

I believe I have praised Doughty more than most here. I think it's great we were in a position to draft a generational talent. I think it was a bit of a no-brainer pick, but I will give the Kings credit for making the pick. yes that's a plus.

I also think Schenn was a very good pick, I would have preferred MPS but he was a good player that was able to be traded for a star player.

I have already said the later round picks have been much better than most teams.

I have simply said in this thread it's very disturbing that the Kings reached with Hickey (obviously there guy), they traded up to get Lewis, they traded up to get Teubert and they traded up to get Forbort. These are obviously guys that were targeted by the Kings.

So to answer your question, the Kings have drafted one generational talent, one very good prospect and one bust with three top 5 picks. The rest of the first round leaves a lot to be desired, IMO.

I would say the drafting in the later rounds is A, and the first round has been a B- mostly because of how special DD is.


I think that these are all fair points. I would only caution that any first round D picks should be tabled until each individual player reaches the age of 25. In my experience that is when you should know what you have in any D player. Before then is sort of the luck of the draw.

Forbort as I have said since his draft hasn't looked very good to me yet. That said I have seen him skate twice in person this year and he is coming along. I would also say that he is becoming somewhat tenacious in the corners and that is a HUGE thing for him. I would give him 3 more years and then think he could become a #3/4 basher that can skate.

The point is that we have been spoiled by DD and JJ and even somewhat by AM and VV in their ability to jump up and play so very effectively at such a young age.


When it comes to guys like Lewis while I liked our picking him up and stick by that.

I think that we should keep a watchful eye on our 1st rd picks but am willing to allow for a mistake here and there. (Squid?)

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:59 AM
  #142
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yeah there's a lot of long replies so i'm not going to read that but one thing

FIRE TERRY MURRAY.

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Old
11-04-2011, 01:00 AM
  #143
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One thread at a time... http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=1021573

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