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Old
11-01-2011, 12:26 PM
  #126
Heaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wingman View Post
Has Hudler really been that bad?

I haven't been watching the last few games very closely because the team just hasn't looked like the Red Wings, so I lose interest pretty quickly. But when I was watching Hudler didn't seem especially terrible, even from the perspective of this certified Hudler detractor. Bertuzzi, Cleary and Zetterberg (in that order) have been way more disappointing, but maybe that's because I don't expect anything from Hudler anymore.

I'm going to the game tonight so I'll be looking at the team under a microscope. Hopefully Nyquist helps them break out of this funk.
This is the problem, if Cleary or Bertuzzi were being benched, it would be understood. But when Hudler is benched, people chalk it up to the coaching staff pinning all of the issues on Hudler. Hudler hans't been good since the team has been good, a lot of other forwards have been bad, too. But tell me why Hudler shouldn't be benched? Nyquist is playing and taking Hudler's spot on the PP, let's see what happens.

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11-01-2011, 12:27 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by lilja4mvp View Post
LOVE the hudler benching. great stuff. let's hope it lasts!
Yes Miller in the line up will make us turn this around.

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11-01-2011, 12:30 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Hudler has played worse than Cleary has in the past 5 games, he has 1 shot(?). I'm not hiding the fact that Cleary has been terrible, but Hudler has been worse. The first 4 games are irrelevant at this point.
can you really say hudler has been worse? I feel that the level of bad between Hudler and Cleary and Bert has been so bad that while I think sitting Hudler is the right choice to make, I'd be fine sitting all 3 of them and playing Emmerton and Miller tonight too.

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11-01-2011, 12:31 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
This is the problem, if Cleary or Bertuzzi were being benched, it would be understood. But when Hudler is benched, people chalk it up to the coaching staff pinning all of the issues on Hudler. Hudler hans't been good since the team has been good, a lot of other forwards have been bad, too. But tell me why Hudler shouldn't be benched? Nyquist is playing and taking Hudler's spot on the PP, let's see what happens.
I have no problem at all with Nyquist being called up but not sure why it would be at the cost of Hudler sitting. The way I look at it is Miller is taking Hudler's spot. You also mention that Hudler hasn't been good since the team was good but one of the reason's the team was good was because Hudler was playing good. Guy's like Cleary, Zetterberg weren't lighting it up then.

Not sure if that last part makes sense.

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11-01-2011, 12:32 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by lilja4mvp View Post
LOVE the hudler benching. great stuff. let's hope it lasts!
If Nyguist proves that he can provide some offense, then I see no place on this team for Hudler, especially when Mursak is healthy.

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11-01-2011, 12:32 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
can you really say hudler has been worse? I feel that the level of bad between Hudler and Cleary and Bert has been so bad that while I think sitting Hudler is the right choice to make, I'd be fine sitting all 3 of them and playing Emmerton and Miller tonight.
It's all relative, but yes. Cleary and Bertuzzi still have some redeeming qualities.

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11-01-2011, 12:42 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
Filppula - Datsyuk - Cleary
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen (Swedish line)
Eaves - Helm - Bertuzzi
Miller- Abdelkader - Mursak


Lidstrom - Kronwall
Stuart - White
Kindl - Ericsson


When everyone is healty..
Too bad he'll be stuck with 4th line minutes. It'll be interesting to see how things shake out after the purging during the off season.

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Old
11-01-2011, 12:45 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by The Wingman View Post
woah, whoa, whoa...

1 shot in 5 games? Never mind answering my question, that's pathetic. I don't care what his TOI was or who his line-mates were, he's on this team to make plays and score goals. He needs to go asap...bag of pucks, I don't give ****.
And Heaton was being kind. Hudler has NO shots in his past 4 games.

Hudler is the obvious scratch here, especially since Nyquist is being given a more offensive role. Hudler is one-dimensional, he does one thing. Offense. And in his last 4 games he has 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 shots. Not acceptable. He's contributing literally nothing out there. At least Cleary, while pretty much being equally useless production-wise lately, can skate faster, cover more ice, and be more physical.


Last edited by Fugu: 11-15-2011 at 04:47 PM. Reason: ...
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Old
11-01-2011, 01:00 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
I'm hoping for something a bit shocking today and to see a first line of

Datsyuk Z Filppula
Exactly. Cleary needs to get bumped down a couple lines until he either gets 'healthy' or stops sucking.

Your top line, Babcock's Bert-Franzen-Gus line (can we call him Gus?), Homer-Abby-Cleary, Miller-Helm-Eaves. That's what I'd prefer to see.

Then again, maybe Homer has one more kick of the can left in him and this will turn into something good. Enh. I don't think he'll have a lot of rope out there, in any case.

Nobody should.

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Old
11-01-2011, 01:07 PM
  #135
jaster
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(can we call him Gus?)
That's his actual nickname (along with Goose). Not Nike, Nyquil, Gustavian von Nyquistschmidt, or whatever else has appeared on message boards.

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11-01-2011, 01:30 PM
  #136
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I am so happy that Hudler is getting benched. What a worthless player.

buhhh buhh Babcock is being mean. Lets dispel some myths about Hudler. Hudler is not a great offensive player. He is average at best and his 07 to 09 was a product of him being on a ridiculously stacked team. Trade him for a bag of pucks and be done with the lazy pos.

Nyquist is going to make Hudler even more useless.


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 11-01-2011 at 01:36 PM.
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Old
11-01-2011, 01:33 PM
  #137
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Hudler during the losing streak

Oct 29
Linemates: Mule and Filppula
Hudler: 0p, 0 SOG

Oct 28
Linemates: Mule and Filppula
Hudler: 0p, 0 SOG, 4 PIM

Oct 25
Linemates: Mule and Filppula
Hudler: 0p, 0 SOG

Oct 22
Linemates: Mule and Filppula
Hudler: 0p, 0 SOG, 2 PIM

So yeah, over a two week period (second half of October) Hudler generated 0 shots on goal and 6 PIM and no points. Yeah when you never shoot the puck you have a really high shooting percentage!

Hudler is supposed to be all offense. He can't skate, he can't play two way hockey, he gets knocked off the puck as easily as anyone in the lineup, all he is asked to do is put the puck on net or set guys up to score points. He's gotten power play time and still can't generate any offense. How weak is that? You can't whine about him not playing in the top 6, he's played with legit top 6 forwards the entire season. And he's playing on the power play! The fact of the matter is he's done nothing but take penalties. No offense to speak of for the past five games. He's been given everything the Hudler fanbois could ask for regarding linemates and he's done nothing.

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Old
11-01-2011, 02:12 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by HeHateMeFrisbee View Post
Nyquist with the two biggest players. I like it. Give the kid some protection and let him skate around while Bert goes to the net. This also makes Franzen have to skate instead of parking his butt at the net.
There's a difference between being big and playing big. Bertuzzi and Franzen in the last handful of games have both played small. Having a big body means nothing for creating room when you don't win any battles. Helm and Datsyuk play much "bigger" than Bertuzzi and Franzen.

Hopefully Franzen will snao out of it though because he was playing big to start the season - driving and attacking the net. When he plays like that he's a force.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
I think Dats needs some speed on his line and both Cleary and Z have seemed quite slow to start this season
Don't worry. Babcock will give Pav some speed with Homer.

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Old
11-01-2011, 03:07 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
There's a difference between being big and playing big. Bertuzzi and Franzen in the last handful of games have both played small. Having a big body means nothing for creating room when you don't win any battles. Helm and Datsyuk play much "bigger" than Bertuzzi and Franzen.

Hopefully Franzen will snao out of it though because he was playing big to start the season - driving and attacking the net. When he plays like that he's a force.


Don't worry. Babcock will give Pav some speed with Homer.
The main thing I would like to see with Bertuzzi is Paul Boyer glue both his gloves to his stick so he will stop grabbing with his one hand. He's been getting away with it all year and finally it's catching up to him.

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11-01-2011, 03:52 PM
  #140
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Someone needs to make a Red Wings flowchart where every problem is solved by "Bench Hudler".

Gustav earned a trip to the NHL. Kind of worried to see him on a line with what may be two of our currently worst-playing forwards.

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11-01-2011, 03:54 PM
  #141
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I don't know what you guys see Hudler as but to me, a Hudler at his 100% is a playmaker. It does suck that he has 0 SOG, obviously the more scoring chances we get, the better. But I don't think that stat alone means he is useless. He's a setup guy who should be generating assists more than goals. If the guys he's giving the puck to aren't burying it, it doesn't necessarily mean he's not doing his job.

I mean don't get me wrong, I do agree that he is not good lately. But neither is anyone else. I just don't buy the "purely offensive player with 0 SOG = useless" argument. While he IS purely offense, that does NOT mean his game can be measured purely by SOG.

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11-01-2011, 03:58 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat View Post
Someone needs to make a Red Wings flowchart where every problem is solved by "Bench Hudler".

Gustav earned a trip to the NHL. Kind of worried to see him on a line with what may be two of our currently worst-playing forwards.
Can it be accompanied by a pie chart where everyone believes every problem is pinned on Hudler when he's benched?

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11-01-2011, 04:07 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by TheOtherOne View Post
I don't know what you guys see Hudler as but to me, a Hudler at his 100% is a playmaker.
Eh, Hudler has a good shot, and has shown in the past that he knows how to put the puck in the net, so I don't think he's purely a playmaker. He should be scoring goals as well.


Quote:
It does suck that he has 0 SOG, obviously the more scoring chances we get, the better. But I don't think that stat alone means he is useless. He's a setup guy who should be generating assists more than goals. If the guys he's giving the puck to aren't burying it, it doesn't necessarily mean he's not doing his job.

I mean don't get me wrong, I do agree that he is not good lately. But neither is anyone else. I just don't buy the "purely offensive player with 0 SOG = useless" argument. While he IS purely offense, that does NOT mean his game can be measured purely by SOG.
Well, for me at least, that was only half the argument. He also hasn't registered an assist in his past 6 games. He hasn't been doing anything lately, either as a playmaker or a scorer. Offensively, he's been useless. And since he's already useless in every other facet of the game, that spells "benching."

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11-01-2011, 04:30 PM
  #144
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Well I would prefer Hudler stay in, but I don't have a strong argument against him being benched. What I feel more strongly about is the absurdity of refusing to bench Cleary even though his injury is obviously preventing him from helping the team. Or hell even Bertuzzi could use a seat out once in a while, but I never liked him much so that might be my bias talking.

**** bench all 3 and see what Nyquist, Brunnstrom, and Emmerton can do. What could it hurt?

edit: on second thought I'll replace Emmerton with Tatar. Emmerton I could stand losing for a draft pick or something.

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11-01-2011, 05:08 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by TheOtherOne View Post
Well I would prefer Hudler stay in, but I don't have a strong argument against him being benched. What I feel more strongly about is the absurdity of refusing to bench Cleary even though his injury is obviously preventing him from helping the team. Or hell even Bertuzzi could use a seat out once in a while, but I never liked him much so that might be my bias talking.

**** bench all 3 and see what Nyquist, Brunnstrom, and Emmerton can do. What could it hurt?

edit: on second thought I'll replace Emmerton with Tatar. Emmerton I could stand losing for a draft pick or something.
What is this injury Cleary has?

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11-01-2011, 05:10 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by TheOtherOne View Post
Well I would prefer Hudler stay in, but I don't have a strong argument against him being benched. What I feel more strongly about is the absurdity of refusing to bench Cleary even though his injury is obviously preventing him from helping the team. Or hell even Bertuzzi could use a seat out once in a while, but I never liked him much so that might be my bias talking.

**** bench all 3 and see what Nyquist, Brunnstrom, and Emmerton can do. What could it hurt?

edit: on second thought I'll replace Emmerton with Tatar. Emmerton I could stand losing for a draft pick or something.
Cleary has been bumped down to the third line, where he fits even if he doesn't generate offense. Bert has been on the third line and is getting bumped up probably due to Hudler being useless on the second line. The second line was good until Hudler got exchanged on that line for Zetterberg. Oh and Filppula got demoted one line to 3rd line center and Emmerton got taken out of the lineup.

The difference of course is no one is whining about Cleary, Filppula or Emmerton. The team has been playing like crap so change is to be expected. Also a young guy who earned a spot and deserved to be in the lineup on opening night is finally getting his chance. So some of us are excited about that. Other people just have to make it all about Jiri Hudler.

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11-01-2011, 05:28 PM
  #147
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What is this injury Cleary has?
What I read somewhere was "upper body injury 4 weeks". Maybe someone else can be more specific.

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11-01-2011, 05:38 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Eh, Hudler has a good shot, and has shown in the past that he knows how to put the puck in the net, so I don't think he's purely a playmaker. He should be scoring goals as well.




Well, for me at least, that was only half the argument. He also hasn't registered an assist in his past 6 games. He hasn't been doing anything lately, either as a playmaker or a scorer. Offensively, he's been useless. And since he's already useless in every other facet of the game, that spells "benching."
sounds like a perfect description of zetterberg. I would also throw franzen cleary bertuzzi and filpulla in there as well. but its hudler that gets benched every time. I could understand if he has been by far the worst red wings forward but he's not even close to that. He is a plus 1. he has 4 points in 9 games. God thats just terrible. get the guy off the ice asap...

I cant wait to see nyquist on the roster tonight and at the same time i cant help but be worried babcock will bench/demote him after the first bad shift. I hope Babcock doesn't expect these young offensive forwards to come in the league and fit in on the top 6 right away with no adjustment period whatsoever. And no, hudler hasnt been given a chance to adjust. He has been given very short stints with the top 6 in the past, didnt make massive mistakes, didnt cost them games, didnt take awful penalties, but he didnt make a colossal offensive impact so apparently he's no good.

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11-01-2011, 05:53 PM
  #149
jaster
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sounds like a perfect description of zetterberg.
No. Zetterberg has been creating a lot of chances. He protects the puck extremely well and distributes it to other players. And he's generating shots. He's giving the team a chance to score. Hudler is not.

Quote:
I would also throw franzen cleary bertuzzi and filpulla in there as well.
Franzen and Filppula.... see Zetterberg, though to a lesser degree. Bertuzzi hasn't done much offensively, but he's been playing with Helm and Abdelkader, and that line has played well. Cleary's been an offensive blackhole, like Hudler, but he brings other qualities to the table, so when he isn't scoring, at least he can skate, cover more ice, play more physical, be stronger on the puck, etc.


Quote:
but its hudler that gets benched every time.
Because Hudler brings nothing else to the table. He's an offensive player only, and when he doesn't create any offense, he's useless.


Quote:
I could understand if he has been by far the worst red wings forward but he's not even close to that. He is a plus 1. he has 4 points in 9 games. God thats just terrible. get the guy off the ice asap...
Problem is, that's all irrelevant. Because those numbers were all generated in the first couple weeks of the season. In the past 4/5 games, Hudler has been the most useless forward. No goals, no assists, no shots, -3. One of the smallest players on the team. One of the slowest players on the team. One of the weakest players on the team. And if you were to create a metric that combines all three qualities, Hudler would be 14th on the team out of 14 forwards.

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11-01-2011, 07:28 PM
  #150
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so far NyQuil is looking good

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