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Nyquist called up.

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Old
11-01-2011, 10:41 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Hudler is supposed to be all offense. He can't skate, he can't play two way hockey, he gets knocked off the puck as easily as anyone in the lineup, all he is asked to do is put the puck on net or set guys up to score points. He's gotten power play time and still can't generate any offense. How weak is that? You can't whine about him not playing in the top 6, he's played with legit top 6 forwards the entire season. And he's playing on the power play! The fact of the matter is he's done nothing but take penalties. No offense to speak of for the past five games. He's been given everything the Hudler fanbois could ask for regarding linemates and he's done nothing.
The ENTIRE TEAM has scored five goals in the past five games. Whole team. Blaming a guy who plays 11-12 minutes a night for the fact that his team has been beaten by an average score of 3.6-1 in the past five games is just stupidity.

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Cleary has been bumped down to the third line, where he fits even if he doesn't generate offense. Bert has been on the third line and is getting bumped up probably due to Hudler being useless on the second line. The second line was good until Hudler got exchanged on that line for Zetterberg. Oh and Filppula got demoted one line to 3rd line center and Emmerton got taken out of the lineup.

The difference of course is no one is whining about Cleary, Filppula or Emmerton. The team has been playing like crap so change is to be expected. Also a young guy who earned a spot and deserved to be in the lineup on opening night is finally getting his chance. So some of us are excited about that. Other people just have to make it all about Jiri Hudler.
Jiri Hudler. Second on the Wings in even strength scoring. Scratched in favor of a rookie because the team needed offense.

Yep. Logical decisions abound!

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No. Zetterberg has been creating a lot of chances. He protects the puck extremely well and distributes it to other players. And he's generating shots. He's giving the team a chance to score. Hudler is not.
Both Z and Huds have 2 goals and 2 assists at ES, and no special teams points. Z has played one more game, and plays on the first PP unit in a formation he is familiar with in a position he knows. Hudler plays second PP (sometimes) in an unfamiliar system in a position he is unfamiliar with.

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Franzen and Filppula.... see Zetterberg, though to a lesser degree. Bertuzzi hasn't done much offensively, but he's been playing with Helm and Abdelkader, and that line has played well. Cleary's been an offensive blackhole, like Hudler, but he brings other qualities to the table, so when he isn't scoring, at least he can skate, cover more ice, play more physical, be stronger on the puck, etc.

Because Hudler brings nothing else to the table. He's an offensive player only, and when he doesn't create any offense, he's useless.
Hudler has been better than Cleary defensively this year, and he works hard at both ends. People say "oh look, a small European guy" and automatically bring out the "doesn't work hard" and "not good defensively" cards.

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Problem is, that's all irrelevant. Because those numbers were all generated in the first couple weeks of the season. In the past 4/5 games, Hudler has been the most useless forward. No goals, no assists, no shots, -3. One of the smallest players on the team. One of the slowest players on the team. One of the weakest players on the team. And if you were to create a metric that combines all three qualities, Hudler would be 14th on the team out of 14 forwards.
Yes, and if you were to create a metric that was based on pure skill irrespective of those three categories, Hudler would be in the top three among Wings forwards.

If you were to create a metric that used a player's beard to determine the winner of a game, the Wings would have won several Stanley Cups in a row having had Z and Draper. Jamie Macoun probably would probably have 15 or more.

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11-01-2011, 10:53 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
The ENTIRE TEAM has scored five goals in the past five games. Whole team. Blaming a guy who plays 11-12 minutes a night for the fact that his team has been beaten by an average score of 3.6-1 in the past five games is just stupidity.

Jiri Hudler. Second on the Wings in even strength scoring. Scratched in favor of a rookie because the team needed offense.
I agree with you, I think it's madness that Hudler got scratched. On paper he might be a top 6 forward, but not in terms of TOI. He's been getting 10-12 mins lately, how is he expected to produce like a top 6 forward in that amount of time? Babcock will always scratch Hudler when things aren't going well, he's always the first who cops a demotion when his line is off. Hudler has rarely, if ever, been given a consistent shot at being a top 6 forward. I'm not saying he's never been placed as one, but he's always the one who plays the price when things aren't going well. Franzen played 16 minutes tonight and did stuff all, and had 0 SOG. Cleary hasn't even socred all year and still gets 16 mins a night and PP time. Yet Huds is the one who takes a seat, crazy.

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11-01-2011, 11:31 PM
  #153
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Did it ever occur to anyone that factors we don't know about are why Hudler's the first to get benched?

There were rumors this summer that he's not a popular guy in the locker room.

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11-01-2011, 11:50 PM
  #154
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I have also heard that Hudler is very popular on the team. Who knows?

Nyquist was pretty underwhelming today. I didn't see much reason for him to be in the NHL

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11-01-2011, 11:55 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I have also heard that Hudler is very popular on the team. Who knows?

Nyquist was pretty underwhelming today. I didn't see much reason for him to be in the NHL
Didn't see much out of Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Miller, Ericsson, etc today, does that mean there's no reason for them to be in the NHL? No, too small of a sample size to judge Nyquist today

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11-02-2011, 12:05 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I have also heard that Hudler is very popular on the team. Who knows?

Nyquist was pretty underwhelming today. I didn't see much reason for him to be in the NHL
It's because he kept having to come off the ice because we kept taking penalties, he never could get into a rhythm, nor could the rest of the team though.

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11-02-2011, 07:57 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I have also heard that Hudler is very popular on the team. Who knows?

Nyquist was pretty underwhelming today. I didn't see much reason for him to be in the NHL
I don't think he was underwhelming due to the fact he never got a real chance to get in the flow of the game, plus at the same time I felt like Bert was killing so many plays for that line once they were in the zone for the few shifts Nyquist was out there.

I'd rather have him in the NHL at this stage for 2 reasons, he seems to be a good skater, and strikes me as a player that will learn on the fly and adapt quite quickly. I think if we give him a good solid 10 games in the NHL his level of progression will be much quicker than most anticipate.

But most of all, I think we need to keep him cause he does skate better than the rest of our top 6 wingers, it is painfully obvious now to me that our top 6's major weakness is speed on the wings.

If we have Homer, Bert, and Cleary in our top 6, our top 6 is just way too damn slow. It sucks so bad right now that Mursak is injured, cause we could use his speed on the wings

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11-02-2011, 08:56 AM
  #158
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Kinda hard for a guy to get into the flow of the game when the Wings take 9 penalties.

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11-02-2011, 09:15 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Nyquist was pretty underwhelming today. I didn't see much reason for him to be in the NHL
Yeah, I've always thought 10 total minutes of NHL ice time is plenty to make that kind of statement. Considering Nyquist got over eleven, well... MOD


Last edited by Winger98: 11-02-2011 at 09:31 AM. Reason: flaming
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11-02-2011, 10:10 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Yeah, I've always thought 10 total minutes of NHL ice time is plenty to make that kind of statement. Considering Nyquist got over eleven, well... MOD
However, the current team has enough problems of its own. This is not the best moment to play a rookie, who only has a few AHL games as pro experience. Nyquist had bad luck yesterday, playing with a useless Franzen and an even worse Bertuzzi, but he wa still a total non-factor.

Of course, Nyquist is not supposed and cannot be expected to help established roster players out of their losing streak. So let us give him more AHL seasoning and wait for a better situation.

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11-02-2011, 11:22 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
I'd rather have him in the NHL at this stage for 2 reasons, he seems to be a good skater, and strikes me as a player that will learn on the fly and adapt quite quickly. I think if we give him a good solid 10 games in the NHL his level of progression will be much quicker than most anticipate.

But most of all, I think we need to keep him cause he does skate better than the rest of our top 6 wingers, it is painfully obvious now to me that our top 6's major weakness is speed on the wings.

If we have Homer, Bert, and Cleary in our top 6, our top 6 is just way too damn slow. It sucks so bad right now that Mursak is injured, cause we could use his speed on the wings
Yeah I agree completely. Hudler started off on Datsyuk's wing and I'd really like to see Nyquist get those minutes. Keep Nyquist up until Mursak looks like he's ready to return. If Nyquist does well - which I expect based on his development to date - we've got a top 6 forward for nothing and then Mursak starts to complete for ice time.

Cleary should hopefully be getting close to full strength over the next couple weeks. Homer has looked OK on the top line so I'd keep him there with Nyquist and Datsyuk until Cleary is obviously capable of playing on a scoring line. Then you can put him in Homer's place. That also allows you to put the original second line of Fil-Z-Mule back together. They were going good at the start of the season. Give them another shot to see if they can rekindle that chemistry.

I simply don't see any magic bullets or trades out there to obviously make us better. Nyquist is our best prospect at forward since Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Give him some time to show us what he's got. He can't be any worse than Hudler and Bert have been during the losing streak.

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11-02-2011, 11:40 AM
  #162
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They just sent him down again

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11-02-2011, 11:46 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by the banks View Post
Didn't see much out of Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Miller, Ericsson, etc today, does that mean there's no reason for them to be in the NHL? No, too small of a sample size to judge Nyquist today
I will comment again when there is more sample.

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11-02-2011, 11:47 AM
  #164
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Miller was pretty good other than his penalties.

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11-02-2011, 11:48 AM
  #165
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Is kinda odd. RT @wingingitmotown: Nyquist headed back to Grand Rapids. Very disappointed to hear this.

He's headed back, really? He should've stayed longer, really see what he can do. Unless Holland has a trade coming up, maybe?

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11-02-2011, 11:50 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
I don't think he was underwhelming due to the fact he never got a real chance to get in the flow of the game, plus at the same time I felt like Bert was killing so many plays for that line once they were in the zone for the few shifts Nyquist was out there.

I'd rather have him in the NHL at this stage for 2 reasons, he seems to be a good skater, and strikes me as a player that will learn on the fly and adapt quite quickly. I think if we give him a good solid 10 games in the NHL his level of progression will be much quicker than most anticipate.

But most of all, I think we need to keep him cause he does skate better than the rest of our top 6 wingers, it is painfully obvious now to me that our top 6's major weakness is speed on the wings.

If we have Homer, Bert, and Cleary in our top 6, our top 6 is just way too damn slow. It sucks so bad right now that Mursak is injured, cause we could use his speed on the wings

Yeah. Nyquist skates fairly well. But I don't think I'd call him "fast."
I noticed that he went down easy when leaned on (I also saw him make one nice pass while getting knocked down)
First game wasn't anything special is all.

I agree about our top 6, whoever it is.
Cleary's injury has slowed him down, but in general, he's slower than he was a couple years ago.

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11-02-2011, 11:52 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardingsJockstrap View Post
onthewings Matt Saler
Is kinda odd. RT @wingingitmotown: Nyquist headed back to Grand Rapids. Very disappointed to hear this.

He's headed back, really? He should've stayed longer, really see what he can do. Unless Holland has a trade coming up, maybe?
He was here to hopefully be a spark and it didn't work out. We're already benching 3 players as it is.

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11-02-2011, 12:00 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Yeah. Nyquist skates fairly well. But I don't think I'd call him "fast."
I noticed that he went down easy when leaned on (I also saw him make one nice pass while getting knocked down)
First game wasn't anything special is all.

I agree about our top 6, whoever it is.
Cleary's injury has slowed him down, but in general, he's slower than he was a couple years ago.
Nyquist isn't fast, but I think he is faster than Zetterberg and Cleary as wingers. The key thing I have noticed though is that even if he isn't blazing fast, Nyquist at least is always moving his feet, he doesn't really stay still in one spot for a length of time. This is the one thing that drives me nuts about Franzen. Too many times I see him stay still and wait for pucks instead of going to the puck. When Franzen is dominating he is always moving his feet and never waiting for pucks but going for the puck, and its games like that where I truly believe if he did that all the time he would score 40 goals a season.

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11-02-2011, 12:01 PM
  #169
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He was here to hopefully be a spark and it didn't work out. We're already benching 3 players as it is.
I'm sure their positions on the team felt threatened by a rookie being given 4th line minutes.

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11-02-2011, 12:14 PM
  #170
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I'd be interested in seeing a Hudler Nyquist race. If nyq is faster its not by much.

I guess the Nyquist circle jerk will have to wait a while. Wasn't a bad idea for a game though.

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11-02-2011, 12:25 PM
  #171
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I wish I understood the reasoning behind calling Nyquist up, just to send him back down like that...

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11-02-2011, 12:33 PM
  #172
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He was here to hopefully be a spark and it didn't work out.
Saddling the kid with Bertuzzi in assclown mode and Franzen as a center in a game where we spent almost an entire period shorthanded is not an honest opportunity.

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11-02-2011, 12:50 PM
  #173
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Yeah I agree completely. Hudler started off on Datsyuk's wing and I'd really like to see Nyquist get those minutes. Keep Nyquist up until Mursak looks like he's ready to return. If Nyquist does well - which I expect based on his development to date - we've got a top 6 forward for nothing and then Mursak starts to complete for ice time.

Cleary should hopefully be getting close to full strength over the next couple weeks. Homer has looked OK on the top line so I'd keep him there with Nyquist and Datsyuk until Cleary is obviously capable of playing on a scoring line. Then you can put him in Homer's place. That also allows you to put the original second line of Fil-Z-Mule back together. They were going good at the start of the season. Give them another shot to see if they can rekindle that chemistry.

I simply don't see any magic bullets or trades out there to obviously make us better. Nyquist is our best prospect at forward since Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Give him some time to show us what he's got. He can't be any worse than Hudler and Bert have been during the losing streak.
Including this year and last, Hudler has 15 points in 12 games in his career when playing as Datsyuk's "regular" winger. Projects to about 100 points. He sure shouldn't be playing there for 14-15 minutes ES per game.

If you can find me any other player with better numbers in that situation the entire world, I'd be impressed. Because that's about as good as it gets for a winger.

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11-02-2011, 01:01 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Including this year and last, Hudler has 15 points in 12 games in his career when playing as Datsyuk's "regular" winger. Projects to about 100 points. He sure shouldn't be playing there for 14-15 minutes ES per game.

If you can find me any other player with better numbers in that situation the entire world, I'd be impressed. Because that's about as good as it gets for a winger.
I'm no Hudler fanboy, but he's obviously hated by Babcock for whatever reason.

I mean, why is it Hudler that takes the heat for all the other forwards sucking? Why isn't Zetterberg benched? Bertuzzi is obviously ****ing immune to a benching, same with Abs. Franzen has looked bad as well, and Cleary has one assist in 10 games?

Why always Hudler?

I wish I knew the reason, because he's not noticeably worse than any other struggling forward.

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11-02-2011, 01:06 PM
  #175
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I wish I understood the reasoning behind calling Nyquist up, just to send him back down like that...
I think Heaton is right. They wanted a spark.
If the Wings played awesome last night, Babcock would have stuck with the lineup.
But truthfully, Nyquist didn't look any better than Hudler probably would have.

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