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Gradual Decline in Luongo's Game?

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:15 PM
  #26
NugentHopkinsfan
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Stats don't always tell the whole story. He is not the same goalie now as he was in 2007, people will look at the save % and think he is but they are insane. He rarely makes the big save anymore, yes he robbed Ovie but that used to happen way more often. He cannot stop a breakaway or penalty shot, it doesn't matter who it is they will score on him.

In the Nashville series he barely faced any difficult shots, everything was weak and from the outside, he still letin several goals from behind the net. He didn't even start one of the games in the Hawks series that's how bad he was. Bruins series was good at the start and then a huge meltdown where he couldn't make a big save, or a breakaway save.

His playoff play was not as good as the numbers would say. His defence was great in front of him and our forwards did a great job as well. He very rarely had to make a difficult save.

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:16 PM
  #27
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Seems like Roberto is confused between styles. In his early days with the Canucks he used to come out and challenge shooters like nobodies business. Now he's being told to stay deeper in his net to better protect the far side, seems less effective at it...

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:16 PM
  #28
DingoAteMyBaby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Here's Luongo's ES Sv% from 2000-01 to 2010-11:

0.930
0.928
0.925
0.937
(lockout)
0.926
0.928 (first year with Canucks)
0.929
0.936
0.925
0.934

Really don't see any evidence of "decline."
Thank you. Finally [mod].

Before people start saying that he benefited from a good team last year. Lets just take Ryan Miller as an example.

When Buffalo won the presidents trophy in 06-07, Miller had miserable stats a 2.73GAA and .911... Luongo had to stand in plenty of nights last season and won most of his games single handedly and ended the season as the 2nd best goalie with a career best 2.11GAA and .928.

Not to mention last season we only ever had all our defensemen healthy in game 82.... That means 81 games we never had our full defensive lineup.

MOD



Quote:
Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Stats don't always tell the whole story. He is not the same goalie now as he was in 2007, people will look at the save % and think he is but they are insane. He rarely makes the big save anymore, yes he robbed Ovie but that used to happen way more often. He cannot stop a breakaway or penalty shot, it doesn't matter who it is they will score on him.

In the Nashville series he barely faced any difficult shots, everything was weak and from the outside, he still letin several goals from behind the net. He didn't even start one of the games in the Hawks series that's how bad he was. Bruins series was good at the start and then a huge meltdown where he couldn't make a big save, or a breakaway save.

His playoff play was not as good as the numbers would say. His defence was great in front of him and our forwards did a great job as well. He very rarely had to make a difficult save.
Clearly you don't really know much about goalie styles.

The deeper you play, the less desperation saves you have to make. Look at game 7 in overtime when Luongo slid across the crease to save a shot on Sharp. It wasn't flashy at all because he was deep but it was a huge important save.



Then you look at Tim Thomas who has too make tones of desperation saves because of how far he is out of his net. Its a really simple concept to accept.

Also I wouldn't say it was several goals... More like 3 against Nashville and against Boston sure I'll agree he had was the result of the losses in game 3,4 but responded with a huge important shutout win in game 5. The only reason we lost that series was cause we couldn't score. Simple as that. Luongo won 3 games by 1-0 wins, that speaks a lot. Even if they only scored 1 goal against Luongo in game 7 we still would have lost because of the team.

Its a team game, remember that.


Last edited by Fugu: 10-31-2011 at 10:54 PM. Reason: flaming
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Old
10-31-2011, 09:16 PM
  #29
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I'd agree with the confidence part. In the limited amount of games I've watched Luongo, it seems he gets flustered sometimes if he gives up a goal early, or gives up a couple of goals in a short span. If you look back at some of the highlights of the Hawks pounding him, some of the goals he doesn't even look like he expects to make the save.

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:16 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackee View Post
Wasn't Ian Clark the Canucks goaltending coach before Melanson? He's one of the best, and then he was replaced by Rollie? Unless Clark left on his own, that's just crazy.
Ian Clark was offered a full time exclusive job with the Canucks where he could be with the team all the time but he turned it down.

He wasn't the Canucks coach, he was Luongo's coach, but he was also other people's coaches too.

Canucks needed a guy who could be there all the time.

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:17 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackee View Post
Having Rollie Melanson as your goaltending coach doesn't help matters either.

Trust me, I watched him nearly ruin several goaltenders in Montreal including Price. Hackett, Theodore, Garon, Huet all suffered under Melanson. He loves his goalies playing deep in their net. One of the better moves the Habs have made in recent years was hiring someone else.

Edit: Beaten to it. Point remains however.
Didn't all of the above goalies aside from Price have their best numbers using Melanson as their coach?

Luongo last year was miles better playing deep in his net than he had been since he injured his groin a few years back. He's not as good because he doesn't have the godly lateral mobility he used to....something Melanson's coaching is addressing.

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:18 PM
  #32
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So blame Vancouver's goalie coach... duh

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:21 PM
  #33
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And that point was touched on in the sportsnet article. When he first started here, the expectation is that we'd soon win a Stanley cup. Four years later, we haven't won the cup (for many reasons), and people are feeling "betrayed" (for lack of a better word).

It was always the fans that built all this stuff up in their head, fueled by the media and the presidents trophy win. Luongo may have had his best season statistically last year but that doesn't matter because (as far as the fans are concerned) he'll never be as good as he was in 06-07, because we'll never feel that excited energy again - until he wins a Stanley cup for us and a Conn Smythe.

This whole issue says more about the fans than it does about Luongo himself.

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
Didn't all of the above goalies aside from Price have their best numbers using Melanson as their coach?

Luongo last year was miles better playing deep in his net than he had been since he injured his groin a few years back. He's not as good because he doesn't have the godly lateral mobility he used to....something Melanson's coaching is addressing.
He also omits Halak, who carried Montreal to their most recent Conference Finals appearance.

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:32 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
And that point was touched on in the sportsnet article. When he first started here, the expectation is that we'd soon win a Stanley cup.
In October 2006 nobody seriously expected the Canucks to win a cup in the near-future. The team had just missed the playoffs, and in the offseason had lost Jovanovski and Bertuzzi, previously key pieces of the team, plus their leading goal scorer from the previous season (Anson Carter).

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:34 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Mann View Post
In October 2006 nobody seriously expected the Canucks to win a cup in the near-future. The team had just missed the playoffs, and in the offseason had lost Jovanovski and Bertuzzi, previously key pieces of the team, plus their leading goal scorer from the previous season (Anson Carter).
oh god

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:35 PM
  #37
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But he won the gold medal in 2010

I agree. He was the best goalie in the league in 2007. He's top 10-15 now.

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10-31-2011, 09:36 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
Didn't all of the above goalies aside from Price have their best numbers using Melanson as their coach?

Luongo last year was miles better playing deep in his net than he had been since he injured his groin a few years back. He's not as good because he doesn't have the godly lateral mobility he used to....something Melanson's coaching is addressing.
It's funny because Montreal goalies have been very good with Melanson when they arrived with the team but after 2 seasons or so it's as if they were regressing. I think his goalies play very well positionally but their instincts/reflexes get weaker i.e. the glove (a player only had to shot the puck high glove side and it would go in).

I think the latest complain about Melanson in Montreal is that he almost screwed up Price's development in trying to make him more of a butterfly only goalie while he is not.

With that being said Rollie isn't a bad coach and Luongo had the numbers to prove it last year. It remains to be seen if it will last in a couple of years. Playoffs are another beast though.

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:37 PM
  #39
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It seems like if the Canucks don't score first Luongo folds. If they do he's lights out.

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10-31-2011, 09:42 PM
  #40
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I think he changed his style because he challenged so much the Hawks would just crash the net and he wouldn't draw goaltender interference penalties.

However I think he changed for the worse, watching him flop to his belly ever time he feels pressure is ridiculous and his glove hand is atrocious most of the time. Also doesn't hug the post enough and can let in bad angle goals from behind the net. And let's not mention his 5-hole.

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10-31-2011, 09:42 PM
  #41
Powdered Toast Man
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Canuck fans to Luongo "Why no confidence, stupid?"

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:42 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
But he won the gold medal in 2010

I agree. He was the best goalie in the league in 2007. He's top 10-15 now.
Really Luongo is in the 10-15 area now? hahahah he was top 3 last year and has been in the top 3 or top 5 for years now, he's a top 5 goalie.

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10-31-2011, 09:42 PM
  #43
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It seems pretty obvious to me that the pressure is just starting to get to him. Plus the fact he's always called overrated in the media, etc.

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10-31-2011, 09:55 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Canuck fans to Luongo "Why no confidence, stupid?"
Occasionally things said on HF boards make me laugh out loud... this is one of those times.

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Old
10-31-2011, 10:00 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
What we truly miss is the Roberto who clearly was the league MVP of 2006-07
He wasn't even the best player at his position in 2007.

Roberto Luongo has NEVER been the best goalie in the NHL.

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Old
10-31-2011, 10:01 PM
  #46
Frank Drebin
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Originally Posted by ScubaaaBob View Post
Really Luongo is in the 10-15 area now? hahahah he was top 3 last year and has been in the top 3 or top 5 for years now, he's a top 5 goalie.
Because you say it, does not make it true. There are at least 10 goalies Id rather have than him.

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Old
10-31-2011, 10:07 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Because you say it, does not make it true. There are at least 10 goalies Id rather have than him.
Go check his stats, he had one of his best years last season and won the Jennings and was a top 3, I go by how a player plays not the flavour of the week on HF.

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10-31-2011, 10:17 PM
  #48
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On which aspects should Luongo work on to get better? We all know how Osgood changed his entire style when it was needed in his 30s, Luongo should be able to adjust too.

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Old
10-31-2011, 10:18 PM
  #49
DingoAteMyBaby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Because you say it, does not make it true. There are at least 10 goalies Id rather have than him.
Really... I'm not being biased but he's definitely top 5 if not top 3 in my books. The guy had the 2nd best stats in the league, there are several other goalies who have a larger cap hit then him and he beat all of them too. Has 3 three vezina nomination (Beaten twice by two phenomenal Brodeur seasons and one record breaking Thomas season)

Thomas
Lundqvist
Luongo
Rinne
Miller (Although he's only ever had 1 good season under 2.50GAA and above .915, you guys would get offended if I put the most overated goalie lower then 5th).

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Old
10-31-2011, 10:27 PM
  #50
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stats mean nothing come playoff time. I'll take ward over luongo any day of the week when the playoffs hit

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