HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Sidney Crosby's beast mode vs Peter Forsberg's beast mode

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-01-2011, 05:06 AM
  #51
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
Buff Drinklots
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Germany
Posts: 54,234
vCash: 422
Forsberg is the most overrated player ever at HFBoards...and some of these responses just confirm that.

Seriously...talk of being the best ever? If Forsberg could have been the best ever when he wanted to he must have been one lazy ****er.

__________________
“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick
http://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/054.gif
Big McLargehuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 05:09 AM
  #52
KodiakArrest
MacWinnin'
 
KodiakArrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Country: Germany
Posts: 478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Forsberg is the most overrated player ever at HFBoards...and some of these responses just confirm that.

Seriously...best ever? If Forsberg could have been the best ever when he wanted to he must have been one lazy ****er.



Forsberg was a great talent, and a great defensive forward...but like Datsyuk, he's overrated as hell around here.
Stupidest post....ever. Must have never watched hockey before.

KodiakArrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 05:11 AM
  #53
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
Buff Drinklots
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Germany
Posts: 54,234
vCash: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by imperiumk View Post
Stupidest post....ever. Must have never watched hockey before.
Yep. That's it. You got me.

Big McLargehuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 05:15 AM
  #54
KodiakArrest
MacWinnin'
 
KodiakArrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Country: Germany
Posts: 478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Yep. That's it. You got me.
To claim a guy that could step onto the ice and offensivly change the game was a good defensive player/forward shows huge ignorance. The guy was electric on the ice and anyone that has watched more than the occasional youtube video about a player would know that. He was a complete player defensively AND offensively.

It's obvious you're a Pens fan, so you are biased, as well as I am towards Forsberg. I have never once said Crosby is overrated though, I have only said Forsberg is better. He played in a more physical era and wasn't protected as much as Crosby has been.

Someone brought up that Crosby has had more injury woes in his early career than Forsberg, so if he played against the Stars and Wings teams of the mid to late 90's, Crosby would have been eaten alive.


Last edited by KodiakArrest: 11-01-2011 at 05:26 AM.
KodiakArrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 05:21 AM
  #55
MrJonas
Registered User
 
MrJonas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Forsberg was the flashier player, Crosby is just better at pretty much all facets of the game except maybe physicality.
Crosby better defensively than Forsberg? No. Forsberg has 3 top 10 placements in Selke voting.

What gives Crosby the edge though is that he has a goal scoring touch that Forsberg somewhat lacked.

MrJonas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 05:28 AM
  #56
revolverjgw
Registered User
 
revolverjgw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,073
vCash: 500
Crosby's ability to score circles around Forsberg makes him better. Put him with anybody and he'll set the table and/or finish as needed. He's elite in any role.

revolverjgw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 05:28 AM
  #57
Corto
Faceless Man
 
Corto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Braavos
Country: Croatia
Posts: 12,879
vCash: 500
For what it's worth, we'll never know how Crosby or Ovechkin would do in the hook-and-grab era.

What Jagr, Forsberg, etc. had to go through each game was mindboggling when you compare it to today's game.

Corto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 05:28 AM
  #58
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
Buff Drinklots
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Germany
Posts: 54,234
vCash: 422
Oi...

You have been here for less than a month. Forsberg has near-God status around here, so yes...Forsberg is overrated around here...which is what I said. In the general hockey community he's generally rated fine.

Forsberg's career high in points was 116...in 1995-96, a year where the league leader had 161 points in 70 freaking games (alright, Mario was inhuman, but if people want to make the argument that Forsberg is an all-time great I'm not about to exclude him). Crosby's career high so far was 120, as a 19 year-old. He toppled Forsberg's best total points as a teen and already has a season where he's scored 21 more goals than Forsberg ever did in a season (still blows my mind that he never got more than 30 goals in a year...even Thornton has a couple 35+ seasons under his belt). The offense in today's league isn't that much better than it was during Forsberg's prime (and Thornton's career high 37 goal season came in the clutch-and-grab haven that was 2000-01).

He was a damn good playmaker and a damn good two-way player...but his all-time 'great' status is highly questionable. I'm not arguing for Crosby, I'm arguing against Forsberg.


Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 11-01-2011 at 05:34 AM.
Big McLargehuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 05:34 AM
  #59
revolverjgw
Registered User
 
revolverjgw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
For what it's worth, we'll never know how Crosby or Ovechkin would do in the hook-and-grab era.

What Jagr, Forsberg, etc. had to go through each game was mindboggling when you compare it to today's game.
I think Crosby would be ideal for that era. He combines the best attributes of two Hart winners from the deadpuck era, Forsberg and St. Louis. He'd pretty much ventilate the slower d-men with his superior combo of puck possession and speed.

revolverjgw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 05:41 AM
  #60
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
Buff Drinklots
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Germany
Posts: 54,234
vCash: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolverjgw View Post
I think Crosby would be ideal for that era. He combines the best attributes of two Hart winners from the deadpuck era, Forsberg and St. Louis.
Agreed. Ovechkin and Malkin would probably see decent downfalls in points since so much of their gameplay is based on pure skill (Geno for sure), but Sid's style of play may have actually fit that era better than it does the current one. Most of his goals come from within a couple feet of the net...he's the ultimate dirty point accumulator.

And we really do have to realize that the offense of today isn't that much better than the offense of a decade ago...what has been fixed with the rules changes has been nearly off-set by tactics and improvements in defensive players and goaltending. There are more goals scored today than there were a decade ago, but not that many more.

Big McLargehuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 05:45 AM
  #61
Lexus
OWN THE MOMENT.
 
Lexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJonas View Post
Crosby better defensively than Forsberg? No. Forsberg has 3 top 10 placements in Selke voting.
And two Top 5 finishes (2nd, 4th)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJonas View Post
What gives Crosby the edge though is that he has a goal scoring touch that Forsberg somewhat lacked.
Forsberg was actually a pretty good goal scorer, maybe not as good as Crosby but he outscored many of the greats when it mattered the most, in the playoffs.

Forsberg's goal per game in the playoffs puts him ahead of players like...

Sergei Fedorov, Teemu Selanne, Steve Yzerman, Glenn Anderson, Paul Kariya, Pavel Datsyuk, Adam Deadmarsh, Doug Gilmour, Mike Modano, Brendan Shanahan, Bryan Trottier, Bobby Clarke, Alexander Mogilny, Ted Lindsay, Bobby Orr, Peter Stastny, Luc Robitaille, Milan Hejduk, Jason Spezza, Andy Bathgate, Denis Savard, Michel Goulet, Patrick Marleau, Mats Sundin, Pat LaFontaine, Lanny McDonald, Claude Lemieux, Jeremy Roenick, Stan Mikita, Darryl Sittler, Frank Mahovlich, Mike Gartner, John LeClair, Markus Naslund... just to name a few.

For example, Forsberg has scored 12 goals more then Fedorov in the playoffs despite playing in 33 games less. All this, while Forsberg's primary weapon was his unique playmaking.

Oh, and he scored at that rate even though he's played over 150 playoff games aswell. (almost all of them in the dead-puck era.)

Lexus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 06:26 AM
  #62
Lexus
OWN THE MOMENT.
 
Lexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post

Forsberg's career high in points was 116...in 1995-96, a year where the league leader had 161 points in 70 freaking games (alright, Mario was inhuman, but if people want to make the argument that Forsberg is an all-time great I'm not about to exclude him). Crosby's career high so far was 120, as a 19 year-old. He toppled Forsberg's best total points as a teen and already has a season where he's scored 21 more goals than Forsberg ever did in a season (still blows my mind that he never got more than 30 goals in a year...even Thornton has a couple 35+ seasons under his belt). The offense in today's league isn't that much better than it was during Forsberg's prime (and Thornton's career high 37 goal season came in the clutch-and-grab haven that was 2000-01).

He was a damn good playmaker and a damn good two-way player...but his all-time 'great' status is highly questionable. I'm not arguing for Crosby, I'm arguing against Forsberg.
If you saw Forsberg play on a regular basis, and not just looking at the scoresheet you wouldn't hesitate to put him up with some of the all-time greats.


Also, I believe the guy's that have played against him, or played with him has better knowledge on how good Forsberg was than a random internet poster.

Quote:
"He was the most talented guy I ever played with, for just pure raw talent. But more than that, he was a winner and a total gamer, he just wanted to win. He didn't care who scored all the goals or who got all the credit. He just wanted to win, and that's why his teams won as much as they did. We were all very lucky to play with him."

"He was such an unselfish player, he loved to setup teammates, he's passing ability was second to none. He created alot of empty nets for alot of players and im one of the big benefactors from him, I got alot of easy goals thanks to Peter. There was nobody in my era there that was as skilled as him and that could play that tough style of hockey and i know when see other friends, he's the one player they mentioned they hated to play against." -- Joe Sakic

"Peter Forsberg is one of the best hockey players that ever played the game, and I actually don't think that anyone has been so good as Peter was during his peak, I've played against him alot, so I should know." -- Vjatjeslav Fetisov

At the HHOF induction, was asked the question on which player he thinks it's the best he ever played against. -- I would probably say that Forsberg is the best player I ever played against" -- Scott Stevens

"Some of the stuff he does is just ridiculous. Jaromir Jagr is big and strong like Forsberg, but Jagr doesn't fight back if you play him tough like Forsberg does. "I think he's the toughest player in the game to play against." -- Derian Hatcher

"For me, an agitator is somebody who controls the emotion of the game," "And Peter definitely controls the emotion of the game for them." "The only thing that stopped Forsberg is that he ran out of gas when they double- and tripleshifted him, and he wasn't able to use his speed, plus his strength," Hitchcock says. "I remember one time he kept the puck in our end for 40, maybe 50 seconds, and we couldn't get the thing away from him. His ability to knock Derian Hatcher on his butt while giving up 40 pounds shows how he can completely control and dominate a game. He's a player with skill and talent who occasionally goes maniacal. Boy, he gets a really strange look in his eyes. It's like the same steely glare that Mark Messier always gets, and you don't want to be anywhere near him." -- Ken Hitchcock

"Obviously one of the best players in the league the last 15 years, a guy who really controlled the play when he was on the ice, and there's only a handful of guy's in the league at any given era that really, actually controlled the play when the're where on the ice, just his combination of skill, strenght, determinition, and a bit of meanness or alot of meanness actually made him one of the best players to play." -- Steve Yzerman

"Peter is the best all-around player in the NHL, bar none. He's a competitor. He's the ultimate warrior. His hands are electric. He's one of the smartest players on the ice, and he knows where everybody is. He always makes the right play, and he even makes the plays you don't think he can make. He's so fast on his feet and so powerful. And he's mean. The guy is so talented, he's disgusting to watch." -- Jeremy Roenick

"He's a coach's dream. The more crucial the time in a game or a series, the tougher he gets. I think sometimes he's able to flip on a switch in his mind and be at a different level than everyone else. " -- Ray Bourque

Larry Wigge -- "It was late in the Eastern Conference finals, and I was talking about nastiness and skill with Devils right winger Claude Lemieux. He clearly was enjoying the conversation. As I'm talking to the guy some call the most hated player in the NHL, I ask him, "If you could be anyone else in hockey, who would it be?" That's easy. Peter Forsberg," Lemieux says. "I could still be mean and nasty, but if I had all of the skills that he has, I might have won five or six Stanley Cups by now. "I can only dream of skating like Peter. Either that or buy some rocket-powered skates." "(After seeing) a Michael Jordan or a Wayne Gretzky, you think you've seen it all," Lemieux says, "and then Peter shows you something entirely new. "It's the way he creates space, uses space. It's the way he sees the ice. It's the way he picks up speed even after he picks up the puck. And it's the meanness, the nastiness." -- Claude Lemieux

"Peter's ability to change the game was bar none, he could bring so many elements to a game to change it... My best advice when you're playing against Peter is to go change and let someone else play against him." -- Adam Deadmarsh

"Peter Forsberg's skills and determination made him one of the most powerful forwards in the NHL during the best years of his career. Hearing of his retirement is sad news but one day every athlete has to come to this decision. He should be very proud of all he accomplished throughout his career." -- Patrick Roy

"Peter has had a tremendous career. He's been a world class player, one of the superstars of the NHL. I've had the pleasure of playing with him on national teams and the gold-medal-winning Olympic team in Torino. It's sad to see him retire, but he wanted to go out on his own terms and I believe he's doing that. I wish him well in all of his future endeavors." -- Nicklas Lidstrom

Lexus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 06:40 AM
  #63
Lexus
OWN THE MOMENT.
 
Lexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slicedmesh View Post
For all this forsberg playoff beast talk. No run forsberg had touches Crosby's 2008 and 2009 runs. In 2010 he added 19 points in 13 games as well. Prime on prime Crosby already has Forsberg beat and the scary part is Crosby has only been 18-23 in his career so far.


Forsberg won the league in scoring in the playoffs twice without even reaching the Finals. (only player in history to do so).

Crosby has never won it.

Lexus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 06:48 AM
  #64
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,281
vCash: 239
Don't think there's much argument Crosby is better than Forsberg on the whole (for now at least... remains to be seen how his career will finish out) but you want to compare both of their absolute bests.

If you needed one win on an individual game that was life or death and it was between a 110% Crosby or Forsberg, I have a hard time believing people wouldn't take Foppa. He's way more of a dynamic player and he changes the entire tone of the team he is on just by being a part of it. He can win a game no matter the odds just like he proved in the playoffs and the legendary Florida comeback.

I still look back at the 08-09 Avs team as just a comparative to what Foppa means to a team, because despite being out of the organization for so long... the moment he played the entire team changed its tone. It was night and day the difference in effort being given out by players with Foppa on the team, amazing to see how effortlessly he can affect the game.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 07:04 AM
  #65
ska8ter8808
Registered User
 
ska8ter8808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Dear god those quotes were beautiful. Bring back great memories of watching him play. I remember that look he had in his eyes sometimes. It was a look of, I dare you to try and stop me. So beastly.

ska8ter8808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 07:08 AM
  #66
SwedenCanada
Registered User
 
SwedenCanada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slicedmesh View Post
I quessed you missed the 07-08 playoffs where a 20 year old Crosby fresh off a high ankle sprain that made him miss 28 gzmes scored 27 points in 20 games leading the playoffs. Also the youngest to do so.
He didn't miss it, you're just posting incorrect facts.

07/08 Playoffs:
1 Henrik Zetterberg 22games 13goals 14assists 27points +16
2 Sidney Crosby 20games 6goals 21assists 27points +7

SwedenCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 07:11 AM
  #67
Lee Van Cleef*
 
Lee Van Cleef*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Perth, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,797
vCash: 500
Crosby is the most overrated player in history, not Forsberg.

Lee Van Cleef* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 07:36 AM
  #68
SwedenCanada
Registered User
 
SwedenCanada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slicedmesh View Post
Last time I checked there was no Art Ross for the playoffs therefore the tiebreaker is not relevant in this particular discussion.
So you claim Sidney to be the winner? haha. That's pathetic.
Clearly the goals does count since NHL.com even put #1 before Henrik, and #2 before Sidney.

SwedenCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 07:44 AM
  #69
I Hate Chris Butler
Backlund Fan Club
 
I Hate Chris Butler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,263
vCash: 50
Crosby's beast mode involves 31 points in the playoffs followed up by a 51 goal performance. I'm not even going to include last season because then it just gets unfair.

I Hate Chris Butler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 07:48 AM
  #70
Xgp
Registered User
 
Xgp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 751
vCash: 50
It's really hard to compare players between generations. Especially with how the game was played back then. Goalies are much better now and thus games tend to be lower scoring than in the 70's ,etc. But also the players now a days don't have to deal with the massive amount of obstruction/traps (90's) in order to get a scoring chance in the paint or dangle through defenders. Both players have incredible skill sets and truthfully I feel their game fits perfectly within their generation.

Xgp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 07:52 AM
  #71
Vasilevskiy
I've many surnames
 
Vasilevskiy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Barcelona
Country: Spain
Posts: 8,738
vCash: 500
Forsberg... but it's close

Vasilevskiy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 07:56 AM
  #72
KodiakArrest
MacWinnin'
 
KodiakArrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Country: Germany
Posts: 478
vCash: 500
Played in a tougher NHL, against tougher players. Could make anyone look better and wasn't canadian. What's not to love about Forsberg.

KodiakArrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 08:09 AM
  #73
Cujomi
Hart en Ziel
 
Cujomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,282
vCash: 500
Crosby gets so much hate because of all the media attention he received/receives. The most talented player of this generation by a mile, and the work ethic to possibly make him on of the top 3 players, if not the best player, in NHL history should he continue to do what he was doing.

Forsberg was great but Crosby is on another level.

Cujomi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 08:20 AM
  #74
Ice Crusher
Registered User
 
Ice Crusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Crosby gets so much hate because of all the media attention he received/receives. The most talented player of this generation by a mile, and the work ethic to possibly make him on of the top 3 players, if not the best player, in NHL history should he continue to do what he was doing.

Forsberg was great but Crosby is on another level.
Well, if you want me to put it this way. Forsberg gets so much hate because of all the injuries he had in his career. It's funny how people imply that he gets overrated on these boards. Please tell me why would Peter Forsberg be overrated? I am almost certain that posters here that chooses Crosby are not even over 20 years old or are Penguins fans. I don't take anything away from Crosby. He will be the best of his era. But Forsberg is clearly one of the most complete player to ever play the game. A lot of NHL players shares the same opinion.

Please ask yourself a question: If you would ask an NHL player that played against Forsberg and if Peter Forsberg was overrated in the league. What would there answers be, do you think

Real facts: Forsberg is ranked 4th in NHL history for assists per game behind Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr.

Ice Crusher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 08:26 AM
  #75
Raym11
Phaneuf sucks
 
Raym11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,775
vCash: 500
these forums can really make a man hate Forsberg



Forsberg is great, and maybe even "better" then Crosby, but you guys overrated him and then some. Best player when he was on... cool... WHEN HE WAS ON. Just like Kovalev was so amazing as well when he tried....

Raym11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.