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Jason 'Hart Ross' Spezza Thread

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Old
02-16-2012, 11:58 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by SixthSens View Post
My Sens "fan" friends were in total disagreement with me when I would constantly defend Spezza, they kept on spewing stuff like "he should be traded" and "he's not the right guy to lead the team after Alfie retires".

I don't even want to imagine what this team would be like without him. If he keeps up his current pace, he should easily make it into the conversation for the Hart (obviously Malkin's the likely favourite at this point).

Hopefully the next player to make it to 1,000 games all in a Sens uniform
Neil first, then Spezza

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02-16-2012, 12:03 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Spezza shouldn't be in the discussion for the Hart. Unless top 10 is "in the discussion". Malkin, Giroux, Stamkos, Karlsson, Weber, Lundqvist, Elliott and Quick all deserve it more.
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02-16-2012, 12:03 PM
  #78
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You have to be ****ing kidding me.
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Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post



What did I say?

I said he's top 10.

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02-16-2012, 12:04 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
You have to be ****ing kidding me.
There is nothing wrong with this statement, all these guys are above or right next to Spezza in the Hart Discussion.

As of right now it is Malkin running away with it, and 5-8 guys battling for second and third.

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02-16-2012, 12:14 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
How is Spezza Alfie? And for the bolded, I don't believe you. Do you have any examples?

Spezza shouldn't be in the discussion for the Hart. Unless top 10 is "in the discussion". Malkin, Giroux, Stamkos, Karlsson, Weber, Lundqvist, Elliott and Quick all deserve it more.
Disagree with Elliott. Look at Halak's numbers and tell me that it's all Elliott's play and not in large part due to St. Louis having an excellent defensive system.

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02-16-2012, 12:19 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
There is nothing wrong with this statement, all these guys are above or right next to Spezza in the Hart Discussion.

As of right now it is Malkin running away with it, and 5-8 guys battling for second and third.
Thank you officer

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Disagree with Elliott. Look at Halak's numbers and tell me that it's all Elliott's play and not in large part due to St. Louis having an excellent defensive system.
Well, Elliott has a significantly better save % than Halak. And Halak is a pretty talented goalie himself. Yes the Blues have a solid defensive system, but so do other teams, like the Rangers. Elliott's been lights out this year so far. A 93.9% save % doesn't happen by accident. But yeah, I guess you're right. Elliott hasn't played that many games this season.

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02-16-2012, 12:26 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Thank you officer



Well, Elliott has a significantly better save % than Halak. And Halak is a pretty talented goalie himself. Yes the Blues have a solid defensive system, but so do other teams, like the Rangers. Elliott's been lights out this year so far. A 93.9% save % doesn't happen by accident. But yeah, I guess you're right. Elliott hasn't played that many games this season.
I just figure that Timmy Thomas didn't win last year and set a SV% record, and the last goalie to actually win was Theodore almost a decade ago, so odds are really against Elliott.

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02-16-2012, 12:32 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
There is nothing wrong with this statement, all these guys are above or right next to Spezza in the Hart Discussion.

As of right now it is Malkin running away with it, and 5-8 guys battling for second and third.
Look at the teams those guys play for (minus Karlsson, who is not more important to Ottawa than Spezza) and then look at the team Spezza plays for. He is outperforming most if not all of them. There is absolutely something wrong with that statement...especially when he pretty much states they're all ahead of Spezza.

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02-16-2012, 12:36 PM
  #84
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I just figure that Timmy Thomas didn't win last year and set a SV% record, and the last goalie to actually win was Theodore almost a decade ago, so odds are really against Elliott.
true, I wouldn't bet on Elliott or any goalie based on the past. Although with the league leaders only hovering at around ppg this year, maybe that's indicative that a great goaltending league wide and voters may be swayed to vote for goalies (though Malkin is the clear cut winner). When was the last time just ppg forwards were nominated for the Hart? The nominees this year could be Malkin and two goalies.

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02-16-2012, 12:41 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...ight=hart+ross

I'm not sayin'...but I'm just sayin'.

I still suspect I will constantly have to defend this player until the end of time on this board, and the main.

But guys...there are 10 centres MoO would take over him.
What's funny is that you were mocking the idea that Karlsson would be anything special, and yet he's also in the discussion for the Norris.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

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02-16-2012, 12:43 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
What's funny is that you were mocking the idea that Karlsson would be anything special, and yet he's also in the discussion for the Norris.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
This has already been addressed about 100 times. Kind of like the Strome thing it's like the only thing you guys can grasp for. I used to think you guys were more creative.

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02-16-2012, 12:44 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Look at the teams those guys play for (minus Karlsson, who is not more important to Ottawa than Spezza) and then look at the team Spezza plays for. He is outperforming most if not all of them. There is absolutely something wrong with that statement...especially when he pretty much states they're all ahead of Spezza.
Karlsson is more important to the Senators than Spezza.

Only Lundqvist is on a really good team. And they are probably good because of him. They were always a bubble playoff team, and now this year + Richards who hasn't really been good, minus Staal, they are 1st place. Coincidence that Lundqvist save % is way up? He is the reason for their success.

It's the same for the other guys, and their teams aren't that good. Weber is second in team scoring and awesome. Pittsburgh and Philliy aren't that good. They're probably higher than the Sens because Malkin and Giroux > Spezza. Stamkos is on a terrible team, so is Quick (LA is only in the playoffs cause of him). Your argument is invalid.

And scratch Elliott from the list.

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02-16-2012, 12:44 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
This has already been addressed about 100 times. Kind of like the Strome thing it's like the only thing you guys can grasp for. I used to think you guys were more creative.
Yeah, but it's dumb for you to be all swagger-like in a thread where you are guilty of the exact same thing that you're accusing other people of.

Just admit that you were wrong about Karlsson and everyone will move on.

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02-16-2012, 12:48 PM
  #89
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02-16-2012, 12:52 PM
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Sexy!

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02-16-2012, 01:00 PM
  #91
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Sexy!
I get the pink one

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02-16-2012, 01:00 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Karlsson is more important to the Senators than Spezza.

Only Lundqvist is on a really good team. And they are probably good because of him. They were always a bubble playoff team, and now this year + Richards who hasn't really been good minus Staal, they are 1st place. Coincidence that Lundqvist save % is way up? He is the reason for their success.

It's the same for the other guys, and their teams aren't that good. Weber is second in team scoring and awesome. Pittsburgh and Philliy aren't that good. They're probably higher than the Sens because Malkin and Giroux > Spezza. Stamkos is on a terrible team, so is Quick (LA is only in the playoffs cause of him). Your argument is invalid.

And scratch Elliott from the list.
Two points of contention you've made (it appears you may like shiny things):

1. Giroux is NOT better than Spezza

2. Karlsson is NOT more important to the team than Spezza


As for the rest, in order to be in the running for the Hart I think your team has to be successful, with you being the catalyst for it. Right there, Stamkos is nowhere near in the running. He's really good, and Tampa should be good, but he hasn't been able to elevate the team into a position of success.

As for Giroux, the Flyers should actually be doing much better than they are when you look at them on paper, and they have quite a solid offensive group. Giroux, though a good player, does not stand out on the Flyers like Spezza does on the Sens, Look at it this way, if Giroux was out with injury, would the flyers suffer as much as we would if Spezza went down? That should give you an indication of who is more important to the success of their respective teams.

Weber is arguably NOT even the best or most important defenceman on his team, let alone in the league.

Also, it is very unlikely that a goaltender wins the Hart, he would have to playing for a team of relative no names, stealing games all of the time. None of the goalies you mention are in that position.

These discussions about Spezza go sideways so quick because there is an odd element of our fanbase that will use every excuse they can to come up with ways to cheapen Spezza's value to this team and in the league in general. The grass is always greener for some folks. I imagine that it'll take getting burned with that mentality a few times before those people smarten up and open their eyes.

Personally, I like being a fan of my team and it's players.

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Old
02-16-2012, 01:20 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Karlsson is more important to the Senators than Spezza.

Only Lundqvist is on a really good team. And they are probably good because of him. They were always a bubble playoff team, and now this year + Richards who hasn't really been good, minus Staal, they are 1st place. Coincidence that Lundqvist save % is way up? He is the reason for their success.

It's the same for the other guys, and their teams aren't that good. Weber is second in team scoring and awesome. Pittsburgh and Philliy aren't that good. They're probably higher than the Sens because Malkin and Giroux > Spezza. Stamkos is on a terrible team, so is Quick (LA is only in the playoffs cause of him). Your argument is invalid.

And scratch Elliott from the list.
and dont forget karlsson is a better playmaker then spezza.

Hey what was the sens record without spezza last year? I just cant remember.

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02-16-2012, 01:22 PM
  #94
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More media attention =/= more important.

As Spezza goes, we go.

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02-16-2012, 01:25 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Ice-Tray View Post
Two points of contention you've made (it appears you may like shiny things):

1. Giroux is NOT better than Spezza

2. Karlsson is NOT more important to the team than Spezza
Completely disagree.

The Senators would be at the bottom of the standings if Karlsson wasn't on the team. Think below the Canes, slightly higher than Columbus (maybe). Without Spezza, they'd probably be on par with Montreal, Buffalo, Tampa and Canes, somewhere in there, not below. Obviously this is a bunch of guessing, but it's my opinion.


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As for the rest, in order to be in the running for the Hart I think your team has to be successful, with you being the catalyst for it. Right there, Stamkos is nowhere near in the running. He's really good, and Tampa should be good, but he hasn't been able to elevate the team into a position of success.
meh, it's not Stamkos' fault his team sucks but I guess historically you're right. I wouldn't hesitate to give it to guy on a bad team if he is the best player.

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As for Giroux, the Flyers should actually be doing much better than they are when you look at them on paper, and they have quite a solid offensive group. Giroux, though a good player, does not stand out on the Flyers like Spezza does on the Sens, Look at it this way, if Giroux was out with injury, would the flyers suffer as much as we would if Spezza went down? That should give you an indication of who is more important to the success of their respective teams.
Giroux > Spezza. Make a poll on the main board to eliminate bias. Switch Giroux and Spezza and Philly is worse and Ottawa is better. Giroux turned Hartnell into a top 30 scorer and All-Star. Where is Michalek in the top 30? top 60? Nowhere to be found. And who are these other superstars Philly has? If Giroux went down, they would suck balls.

I think you're going too much with the what have you done for me lately. What Giroux did at the start can't be dismissed. 4 game hot streak for Spezza doesn't make him second to Malkin for the Hart and better than Giroux.

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Weber is arguably NOT even the best or most important defenceman on his team, let alone in the league.
Weber is the best defenseman on his team. Clearly imo. And the best in the league. Expect the Norris unless Karlsson goes psycho and puts up 30 more points or Weber's play suddenly drops off.

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Originally Posted by Ice-Tray View Post
Also, it is very unlikely that a goaltender wins the Hart, he would have to playing for a team of relative no names, stealing games all of the time. None of the goalies you mention are in that position.

These discussions about Spezza go sideways so quick because there is an odd element of our fanbase that will use every excuse they can to come up with ways to cheapen Spezza's value to this team and in the league in general. The grass is always greener for some folks. I imagine that it'll take getting burned with that mentality a few times before those people smarten up and open their eyes.

Personally, I like being a fan of my team and it's players.
Lundqvist is unreal this season. He deserves a Hart nomination right now and it would be a shame if he didn't get one.

The grass has a very good chance of being greener on the other side in any part of life. The chances that your team has the best player in the league is 1/30. Chances are, there is always somebody out there better than you/your team, etc. Realizing that and discussing rationally that Spezza isn't the best player in the league doesn't not make me a Sens fan.

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02-16-2012, 01:26 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Karlsson is more important to the Senators than Spezza.

Only Lundqvist is on a really good team. And they are probably good because of him. They were always a bubble playoff team, and now this year + Richards who hasn't really been good, minus Staal, they are 1st place. Coincidence that Lundqvist save % is way up? He is the reason for their success.

It's the same for the other guys, and their teams aren't that good. Weber is second in team scoring and awesome. Pittsburgh and Philliy aren't that good. They're probably higher than the Sens because Malkin and Giroux > Spezza. Stamkos is on a terrible team, so is Quick (LA is only in the playoffs cause of him). Your argument is invalid.

And scratch Elliott from the list.
Pittsburgh and Philly are leagues ahead of Ottawa on paper.

Just look at Spezza's linemates compared to Malkin's or Giroux's for example. James Neal has 55 and Dupuis has 32. Hartnell has 50 points and Jagr has 39. Michalek has 39 points...and then Spezza has faced a train of low caliber offensive players like Greening, Butler, Neil, and so on so forth. Even Stamkos has much better linemates than Spezza.

I really find it amusing that you are trying to downplay the Pens and the Flyers compared to the Sens.

Karlsson is also absolutely not even close to more important to the Sens than Spezza. However he's having a breakout season and people around here love new things.

Small sample, but last year and this year without Karlsson in the line-up we've played fine, and I'm actually pretty sure we've won more than we lost. How have we played without Spezza? Or even just when Spezza isn't producing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Yeah, but it's dumb for you to be all swagger-like in a thread where you are guilty of the exact same thing that you're accusing other people of.

Just admit that you were wrong about Karlsson and everyone will move on.
I always admit when I am wrong (unlike most people) and have, as I already said, already addressed this issue multiple times. I've done nothing but 'pump his tires' for most of this season. Not that it really matters as, as is the case with most insecure posters on this board, you will continue to grasp for no apparent reason.

Let's not celebrate Spezza.

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Old
02-16-2012, 01:30 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
The grass has a very good chance of being greener on the other side in any part of life. The chances that your team has the best player in the league is 1/30. Chances are, there is always somebody out there better than you/your team, etc. Realizing that and discussing rationally that Spezza isn't the best player in the league doesn't not make me a Sens fan.
I'm not going to discuss the rest of the post because there is obviously a lack of logic here. Specifically the bolded statement. Nobody is saying that Spezza is the best player in the league -- just one of the most valuable to his team. Could the others be more valuable in his position? Maybe, but they're not in his position.

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02-16-2012, 01:31 PM
  #98
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Let's not forget, it's not supposed to be the best player, it is supposed to be the "player adjudged most valuable to his team"

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02-16-2012, 01:33 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Completely disagree.

The Senators would be at the bottom of the standings if Karlsson wasn't on the team. Think below the Canes, slightly higher than Columbus (maybe). Without Spezza, they'd probably be on par with Montreal, Buffalo, Tampa and Canes, somewhere in there, not below. Obviously this is a bunch of guessing, but it's my opinion.




meh, it's not Stamkos' fault his team sucks but I guess historically you're right. I wouldn't hesitate to give it to guy on a bad team if he is the best player.



Giroux > Spezza. Make a poll on the main board to eliminate bias. Switch Giroux and Spezza and Philly is worse and Ottawa is better. Giroux turned Hartnell into a top 30 scorer and All-Star. Where is Michalek in the top 30? top 60? Nowhere to be found. And who are these other superstars Philly has? If Giroux went down, they would suck balls.

I think you're going too much with the what have you done for me lately. What Giroux did at the start can't be dismissed. 4 game hot streak for Spezza doesn't make him second to Malkin for the Hart and better than Giroux.



Weber is the best defenseman on his team. Clearly imo. And the best in the league. Expect the Norris unless Karlsson goes psycho and puts up 30 more points or Weber's play suddenly drops off.



Lundqvist is unreal this season. He deserves a Hart nomination right now and it would be a shame if he didn't get one.

The grass has a very good chance of being greener on the other side in any part of life. The chances that your team has the best player in the league is 1/30. Chances are, there is always somebody out there better than you/your team, etc. Realizing that and discussing rationally that Spezza isn't the best player in the league doesn't not make me a Sens fan.
ok these kind of statements are why I simply cannot take you seriously.

Are you actually saying a team with folingo-smith-winchester-dacosta down the middle would actually be higher then last place in the NHL? Because of karlsson? IS THAT SERIOUSLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING??????

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02-16-2012, 01:33 PM
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There would not be 10 centers in the game I'd take over him right now. But he's never exactly put a season quite like this before....if CJam isn't crediting Coach on this one. Did he just leave and not speak for a while and come back to call me out? We are on a forced ignore

Would certainly still take Tavares though. There's still a good 6 guys I'd take right now over him but that list could change year to year.

And when it's all said and done he probably won't be a Hart nominee....even if he finishes 2nd in scoring. Everyone knew how talented Spezza was, it's how it's taken him so long how to use it and grow up that frustrated people and that's well deserved.


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