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Our team will be fine, Positive outlook.

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Old
11-02-2011, 09:36 AM
  #26
HyeDray
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Here is an interesting perspective....

When fans like to compare us this season to the Leafs, Sens, Oilers — that those rebuilds are "working" and those teams are moving forward they leave out the fact that like us, its early in the season.

Some how a slow start means the season is essentially lost.

That being the case, I suppose they would argue the Bruin's season is over as well?????

Why is it that in their minds a team like the Oilers, Senators or Leaf's wont hit a rocky patch and fall apart?

You know what team looked really good after 7 games last season?
The Islanders. 4-1-2. And then the season fell apart.

The last two games were handed to the opposition. Its not like they were blow outs.

Unlike last season — the team is relatively healthy.

Biggest issue is our 3rd line. Right now it is not generating any scoring or offensive punch. The top line (including P.A.) is generating offense. The second line is coming around as well — Grabner is notoriously a slow starter. Okposo is never going to be a big goal scorer (20 would be a miracle) and the same with Neilsen.

In reality, I wonder if lines two and three should be flopped. The Neilsen line may do better as a puck pressure checking line over Bailey's line. Or move Grabner up to Bailey's line for a few games, drop Comeau back to the third line.... just a thought.

But the original point — teams off to good starts can just as easily fall apart and teams with sluggish starts can just as easily string some wins together and make a run.

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11-02-2011, 10:14 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
That being the case, I suppose they would argue the Bruin's season is over as well?????
This isn't the first time I've seen this argument and I don't get this line of reasoning. The Bruins won the Stanley Cup. They've been a good, competitive team the last few years. You obviously have to give them the benefit of the doubt. The Islanders have been bottom feeders the last few years. What have they done to deserve the benefit of the doubt?

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11-02-2011, 10:20 AM
  #28
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Were gonna be fine? Wanna see a proper rebuild see Edmonton!

Here is the recipe they used (it's not rocket science) Top end talent selected through the draft and developed properly, sprinkled in with PROPER veteran leadership, decent coaching and not having a god damn circus for you goal-tending, also an arena deal for them is in the works and top end talent knows they have a future there playing a packed state-of-the-art barn every game.

We can "gel" all we want in the locker room but the truth is, our top end players don't produce (outside of JT and Streit), our veteran leaders also lack productivity and are just table scraps from other organizations, our goalies are clueless as to their role on the team.

Not all gloom and doom, but this year is an important test to our rebuild and so far, it's failing. Now i'm not saying it's not possible to "right the ship", but so far it's been bad.

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11-02-2011, 10:28 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
This isn't the first time I've seen this argument and I don't get this line of reasoning. The Bruins won the Stanley Cup. They've been a good, competitive team the last few years. You obviously have to give them the benefit of the doubt. The Islanders have been bottom feeders the last few years. What have they done to deserve the benefit of the doubt?
Dead on

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11-02-2011, 10:30 AM
  #30
Doshell Propivo
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It's not about the first 9 games per se. It's about judging the entire body of work in recent years.

To those who are buying into this latest "rebuild" I say this:

During the past four years, the team has been wretched for 328 games (82 games x 4 seasons).

Yet we are somehow supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt for the first 9 games this year and believe it is some sort of aberration? Please.

The team was awful last year, and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that. Next to nothing was done to address the weaknesses on this team.

I'm all for patience and don't make impulsive decisions based on a small sample size. But I've believed for YEARS that this has been a very poor team and the results have proven that. Why should I put this opinion "on hold" based on what I've seen thus far this season?

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11-02-2011, 11:22 AM
  #31
HyeDray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
This isn't the first time I've seen this argument and I don't get this line of reasoning. The Bruins won the Stanley Cup. They've been a good, competitive team the last few years. You obviously have to give them the benefit of the doubt. The Islanders have been bottom feeders the last few years. What have they done to deserve the benefit of the doubt?
I think that all teams deserve some benefit of the doubt. I dont think the Bruins are reflective of their current standing position, nor are the Islanders, nor are the Leafs, Senators, Panthers or any of the 30 teams.

There is still not enough of a sampling of games to say — ok — this is it...this is the way we finish.

At the same time regardless of how anyone looks at things — it is far to early to write off the entire season. If at this point we lost Nabakov and Montoya to injury along with Streit and Tavares — yes — Id say the team was in serious danger of finishing last. But right now, this team is not like last season. There is too much hockey yet to go....

That is the only thing any of us who are being reasonable are saying.

We are saying that while there are some disappointments in the early going, the team is in essence 500. We win the next 2 games and everyone's mood changes.

The question I have yet to see answered — what were the expectations from fans? Did fans see us a 9-0 after these first 9 games? Does anyone think this team, going into the season was playoff lock?

If there is a belief this team was anything more then a bubble team, then there are going to be a lot of pissed off people on Long Island.

To me — there needs to be a more realist look at the team, and what they can accomplish.

If they under achieve, then they will be somewhere in the 12-13 position. Then we can discuss why they under achieved.

If they over achieve, they will be someplace like spot 5-6.

If the prove to be "as advertised" they can finish anywhere from 11th to 7th.

But it will take all 82 games to figure it all out.

And before we condemn them to be failures, and look at the June draft and make plans to attend the draft party, can we at least get to....oh...I don't know...maybe Christmas or New Years to determine if the team has any chances?

I dont think that is as bad as some fans have been making it out.

And again — to be balanced — YES....Bailey and Comeau have disappointed thus far. I'd like to see a bit more from A-Mac and Streit. It seems the team can be a bit undisciplined with too many penalties...

Of these things — teams can adjust their play to not take as many penalties.

Streit is coming off a lost season. I think it will take another 10-12 games for him to really get into a "Streit-like" groove.

A_Mac is also coming off major injury and likely not 100% — hopefully that will come around.

Bailey and Comeau — they remain the big question mark. I have more faith in Comeau but less in Bailey. Tweaks are needed.

But the idea the season is lost, or a wild "Milburyesque" trade is not the solution. Firing Cappy is not the answer.
Does anyone really want to fire the coach? How about we trade Strome and our 2012 first and second to rent Shea Weber...
Sure — he'd help us this season — might even get us to the playoffs — but what happens July 1? How about watching Strome maybe compete for the Calder in a Predators uniform? How would that feel? Of course we saw things like that happen — perhaps not winning a Calder, but you can't say it wasn't a bit un easy seeing Chara hoist that cup last June. Or watching Roberto Luongo play for a cup, win a gold medal.

I think Melrose paid us a huge compliment when asked about the Isles at the start of the season. His feeling is while he does not see us as a playoff team yet, he feels we are coming along, and will be a tough team to play against. And the compliment was that what Snow has done is brought stability to the franchise. No more stupid trades, wild moves... there is a steady approach.

Did anyone ever think we would be a "stable" franchise in the eyes of an NHL guy like Melrose?

This is still a building year.
We have a ways to go before we take the kind of step the Kings took a couple of seasons back.
But the team is being built for the long term, not short run.

Maybe Im alone — as sobeit — but I think the team is on the right track and has been building well. Many of the pieces Snow has drafted have yet to even play... Nino has not played here yet this year and only played 9 games last year. Strome wont get his shot until next season. Petrov is not playing in N.A. yet. de Haan, Donovan, Ness are all doing well in B.P., but are just starting in the pros and coming along...Poulin...Cizikas....are these guys we want traded after we have worked so hard to build this?


Last edited by HyeDray: 11-02-2011 at 11:31 AM.
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Old
11-02-2011, 11:40 AM
  #32
Doshell Propivo
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
The question I have yet to see answered — what were the expectations from fans? Did fans see us a 9-0 after these first 9 games? Does anyone think this team, going into the season was playoff lock?
I expected them to finish 10th - 15th in the conference. They are "on pace" to finish with 73 points. Pretty much in line with my expectations.

Nothing that has transpired thus far has changed my opinion, in fact, it further confirmed it.

Still hope I'm wrong though and they miraculously make a run. The optimists are right in that it IS still early.

But as a great man once said, "it gets late early around here..."

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11-02-2011, 12:11 PM
  #33
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I think I thought they finish thirteenth with 77 pts. ( 32-37-13) I think my math is correct on that.

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11-02-2011, 01:04 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
Maybe Im alone — as sobeit — but I think the team is on the right track and has been building well. Many of the pieces Snow has drafted have yet to even play... Nino has not played here yet this year and only played 9 games last year. Strome wont get his shot until next season. Petrov is not playing in N.A. yet. de Haan, Donovan, Ness are all doing well in B.P., but are just starting in the pros and coming along...Poulin...Cizikas....are these guys we want traded after we have worked so hard to build this?
You are not alone. I totally agree with everything you said.

Most of the hockey people in the NHL say you don't start to get a good handle on your team until the 15 game mark. We're only a bit over halfway there so I'm not worried yet for this season and I'm certainly not worried about the progress of the rebuild overall.

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11-02-2011, 01:28 PM
  #35
Doshell Propivo
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Originally Posted by JKP View Post
You are not alone. I totally agree with everything you said.

Most of the hockey people in the NHL say you don't start to get a good handle on your team until the 15 game mark. We're only a bit over halfway there so I'm not worried yet for this season and I'm certainly not worried about the progress of the rebuild overall.
What me worry?

{MOD EDIT}

We are making progress.
Our defense is strong.
Our 5 year plan is working.
The future is bright.
Our young generation will lead us to glory.

Keep yer heads in the sand fellas!


Last edited by Homeland Security: 11-02-2011 at 07:06 PM. Reason: Politics not permitted.
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Old
11-02-2011, 02:06 PM
  #36
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Yes, but to go back to the grammar, until this country is back to number one, I think teachers should have tasers in classrooms until the youth can use the language. And parents should be able to draw blood at PTA meetings without outside interference.

Continue.

(sorry, too many meatheads out there on the streets - I root for the cannibals)
WOW

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Old
11-02-2011, 02:11 PM
  #37
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While it's early-points in october/november are worth just as much as points in march/april

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11-02-2011, 03:08 PM
  #38
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I believe part of the problem with their inconsistent start has been the schedule.

After tonight they will have played fewer games than every other team in the NHL. Only Jersey has played 9 games to date. And the Isles have had some gaps in the schedule like the 5 days gap b/w gm 4 and 5. The team came out of that gap and played terrible after looking pretty good in games 3 and 4.

They're currently in another 5 gm gap and I fear they're going to come out and look lost and miss passes and fail to clear like they did a couple weeks ago.

I'm not trying to make an excuse as it's clearly the coach's job to have them prepared and ready to play, but after the camp where the non-AHL team barely played at all and having so few games with some big gaps between them, I think this young team is struggling to find some rhythm.

Starting tomorrow, they've got 13 games in the next 26 days, so hopefully they can get some momentum going. We'll see...

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11-02-2011, 03:12 PM
  #39
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The lack of growth and or production of both Bailey and Okposo are really killing this team this year. I like them both and still see them becoming productive NHL players but, while they're figuring things out, we are a one trick pony with JT bearing the burden of the entire offense...Until these former 1st rounders start to play like it, or even close, we will be a very mediocre hockey team...

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11-02-2011, 03:39 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
I think that all teams deserve some benefit of the doubt.
I don't.

Say you own a business and you have two employees. One comes to work on time and generally does a good job and the other shows up late and generally does a poor job. One day they're both 20 mins late. Do you not give the benefit of the doubt to the guy that usually does a good job? IMO, the benefit of the doubt is earned. The Islanders have not earned it, at least in my eyes.

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11-02-2011, 04:12 PM
  #41
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I don't.

Say you own a business and you have two employees. One comes to work on time and generally does a good job and the other shows up late and generally does a poor job. One day they're both 20 mins late. Do you not give the benefit of the doubt to the guy that usually does a good job? IMO, the benefit of the doubt is earned. The Islanders have not earned it, at least in my eyes.
That's fine — about the employees I mean — but I dont think a sports team can be compared to a business scenario like that.

Employees are asked to perform a certain task, and typically, as they mature, work that skill, they get better at it — and they do so for an entire career lasting 40+ years. A hockey player or any athlete has a very small window of time.

I also think a job done with the benefit of "privacy" vs in hundreds of thousands of fans all screaming "you suck" changes things a bit.

In the end, we can agree to disagree. But there has to come a time where I would hope fans see the progress — this team and this franchise is in a much different place then it was in 2008.

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11-02-2011, 04:16 PM
  #42
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I expected them to finish 10th - 15th in the conference. They are "on pace" to finish with 73 points. Pretty much in line with my expectations.

Nothing that has transpired thus far has changed my opinion, in fact, it further confirmed it.

Still hope I'm wrong though and they miraculously make a run. The optimists are right in that it IS still early.

But as a great man once said, "it gets late early around here..."
Fair enough....

10th to 15th is maybe a bit wide....

I have them anywhere from 12-7 — but I also think that the team that finishes in 7th and the team that finishes 12th will be a 4 point spread.

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11-02-2011, 04:19 PM
  #43
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To call and other 'apologist, optimist' whatever you want to call us "in denial" is absolutely ridiculous. We actually route for this teams success, unlike others around here as of late who just want to harp on how much of a failure this organization is.

We get it the last 20 years SUCKED we AGREE with you. Stop harping on it, if you no longer like this team, it's players, it's management, it's coaching, the popcorn they serve then stop supporting them! Sports are for entertainment, people around here are acting like Android vs. Apple fanboys.

We agree to disagree on the state of the team, why do you have to constantly fight with us on it?

----

NOTE: I may be taking things too personally as of late on here, but it seems there is a lot more attacking of each other going on around here.

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11-02-2011, 04:55 PM
  #44
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We are all here to watch the team win and we all want them to win. If everyone agreed this place would be very boring. I think this re-build is showing that is failing this season. Losing and collecting picks and young guys does not = success (Florida,Columbus). By this year we should have seen improvement instead we see another season of a bottom 5 team.

Time to start from the top down and bring in a GM who knows how to make a move and make the right move. The re-build is a failure. Snow has done very very very little since taking over. He makes draft picks and trades for draft picks, he has signed 1 notable UFA and made 1 impact trade. He also has hired 2 AHL coaches, time to move on from Garth.

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11-02-2011, 04:59 PM
  #45
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I think the whole reason this team can't hit its stride is the schedule. They have had to play great teams thus far (except Minny) and they have to wait so freaking long between games. On multiple occasions thus far they'll play a game on Thursday and Saturday...then all of a sudden you have to wait till next Thursday to see some action. That's 5 days. Any team that doesn't have live game action for 5 days will most likely come out rusty, especially against better teams. That said, they seem to be playing better lately. We just need 1 win to prove that this isn't a 20 game losing streak, then the confidence will return.

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11-02-2011, 05:10 PM
  #46
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I think the whole reason this team can't hit its stride is the schedule. They have had to play great teams thus far (except Minny) and they have to wait so freaking long between games. On multiple occasions thus far they'll play a game on Thursday and Saturday...then all of a sudden you have to wait till next Thursday to see some action. That's 5 days. Any team that doesn't have live game action for 5 days will most likely come out rusty, especially against better teams. That said, they seem to be playing better lately. We just need 1 win to prove that this isn't a 20 game losing streak, then the confidence will return.
Our schedule has actually been pretty easy so far. 6 home games out of 9. Other than 2 Penguins games and the Sharks game it has been easy. Most times you split the home and home as well

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11-02-2011, 05:16 PM
  #47
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It's too early to panic. When the offense wakes up this team will be in the hunt for the playoffs. The only thing that scares me is the lack of effort on certain nights. They looked good in the last 2 games versus the Sharks and Penguins. Both are good teams and the Islanders could have won both games. It seems like they just don't get up for weaker teams. I am curious to see how this team will play against the Jets on Thursday.

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11-02-2011, 05:34 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
That's fine — about the employees I mean — but I dont think a sports team can be compared to a business scenario like that.
Probably not in regards to the details. My general point is that, IMO, teams (like people) have to earn the benefit of the doubt. In my eyes, the Islanders, as a team and as an organization, have not done that. That's all.

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11-02-2011, 08:25 PM
  #49
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Probably not in regards to the details. My general point is that, IMO, teams (like people) have to earn the benefit of the doubt. In my eyes, the Islanders, as a team and as an organization, have not done that. That's all.
I understand...

But at the same time — I guess I have more faith in them to come out the other side of this OK....for a few reasons....

1) They are 3-4-2 though 9 game. They are not 2-7 or 1-8.

2) I think that we finally have a coach and a GM who are willing to be patient and allow guys some room to build off of — I value that, and I think it is needed for this team.

3) We have proven to not be reactionary.

The one area I remain concerned with is Bailey more then anything else.

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11-02-2011, 08:27 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by xECK29x View Post
To call and other 'apologist, optimist' whatever you want to call us "in denial" is absolutely ridiculous. We actually route for this teams success, unlike others around here as of late who just want to harp on how much of a failure this organization is.

We get it the last 20 years SUCKED we AGREE with you. Stop harping on it, if you no longer like this team, it's players, it's management, it's coaching, the popcorn they serve then stop supporting them! Sports are for entertainment, people around here are acting like Android vs. Apple fanboys.

We agree to disagree on the state of the team, why do you have to constantly fight with us on it?

----

NOTE: I may be taking things too personally as of late on here, but it seems there is a lot more attacking of each other going on around here.
That's what happens when all you do is lose. I mean, really, what can be said at this point. All any of us want is just for a 2 weeks run where we win more than we lose.

And that's a pretty damn small request. The good teams? They get months of great hockey.

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