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Old
11-08-2011, 02:44 PM
  #601
Reimer
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
You think that's how this is working, or did you miss read my point.
Just because someones opinion that is stated as fact may not actually be fact doesn't make it any less of their point/opinion.

Best is to just dismiss the super illogical ones.

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11-08-2011, 02:47 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
I've said it before and I will say again and again and again, until it stops being the case.

This Omark "discussion" is, in its purest form, one group of fans feeling the need to educate and/or enlighten Oilers fans on the merits and general greatness of Linus Omark.

No more, no less.
I dont think so.

Personally I think it's apparent that Omark has a ton of skill but a lot of Oiler fans have been burnt before by players with a lot of skill who cant translate that into being a good NHL player. Nilsson, Schremp being the biggest examples. Those super skilled players always have their fans and it's no surprise because if the player can put it together they could be the next Briere or St. Louis or Savard who make it after they've been given up on. You always have to hold out hope that could happen here, it's a long shot but it's possible.

Omark hasnt done enough yet to prove he's a regular NHL player, he very well could I like a lot of things about him that I didnt see in Nilsson or Schremp. It might not happen but realistically he still has a shot and that shot is better right now than any 3rd round draft pick some people are calling to trade him for.

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11-08-2011, 02:49 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
If he is playing against lesser competition which he is, why does he still continue to hold onto the puck for too long? Shouldn't he be able to find someone open?
5 assists in 3 games sounds like he's finding open players just fine. I think the problem is more that at the AHL level he can hang on to the puck longer and in a crowd before making the pass, whereas in the NHL that won't work.

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11-08-2011, 02:56 PM
  #604
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Well, let's 30 say per cent (which I would say is a conservative estimate) are of this ilk, I feel comfortable saying that that is both a minority as well as a healthy segment. The two terms aren't mutually exclusive.
Id say 10% of the poseters on Hfboards, which means 0.0001% of Oiler fans.

Most of the guys who just go to games would probably like Omark to be out there.

Unfortuneately for Omark, coaches like to keep their jobs and bet on the guys who they think will help them do that.

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11-08-2011, 03:01 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
It's a truthful response of the situation.

It's hard to get better against lesser competition. How do you learn better puck management(for the NHL level) against lesser competition?
I never suggested it was inacurate, I am just pointing out that it is putting a spin on the situation as opposed any kind of meaningful answer.

As far as learning in a situation that comes easy, it's all about self dicipline. Paying attention to what situations the coach/management is looking for a certain response and executing it instead of attempting the same type of stuff that landed you down there in the first place. Who know, perhaps learning to do it in a league that he knows/believes he can "dominate", it will pay off even bigger dividends down the road because it's so much tougher to play with in the structure under that circumstance.

You can have all the talent in the world but if you can't execute within the structure being preached and with the dicipline that every other NHL regular has demonstrated, it really doesn't mean much. Just another million dollar talent wasting his big break due to having a ten cent head.

It's been the chief critique of Omark's approach virtually from day one, sounds like they are still trying to drive it home.

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11-08-2011, 03:07 PM
  #606
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You would think people would be happy that Omark is playing the way he usually does, and getting them points...

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11-08-2011, 03:07 PM
  #607
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I never suggested it was inacurate, I am just pointing out that it is putting a spin on the situation as opposed any kind of meaningful answer.
It was a tweet, I don't think you're going to get a full blown heart-felt answer.

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11-08-2011, 03:10 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Just because someones opinion that is stated as fact may not actually be fact doesn't make it any less of their point/opinion.

Best is to just dismiss the super illogical ones.
So you missed the point, that's fine, it doesn't mean it's not correct.

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11-08-2011, 03:13 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Nacho View Post
You would think people would be happy that Omark is playing the way he usually does, and getting them points...
Oh, i'm sure the Baron fans are pleased as punch. It's us Oiler fans that are wondering when he's going to be that goal scorer he's touted to be at the NHL level.

If you can't see the difference between him doing this at the AHL to the NHL level, than no one can help you.

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11-08-2011, 03:13 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by NAF View Post
5 assists in 3 games sounds like he's finding open players just fine. I think the problem is more that at the AHL level he can hang on to the puck longer and in a crowd before making the pass, whereas in the NHL that won't work.
That's the thing he needs to move it quicker, so I'd assume that's something the team doesn't want him doing anymore. It's something that has screwed with our PP in the past, guys need to move the puck more.

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11-08-2011, 03:23 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by Booya42 View Post
Oh, i'm sure the Baron fans are pleased as punch. It's us Oiler fans that are wondering when he's going to be that goal scorer he's touted to be at the NHL level.

If you can't see the difference between him doing this at the AHL to the NHL level, than no one can help you.
I wouldnt count on that happening as long as Renney is the coach...

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11-08-2011, 03:23 PM
  #612
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So we have some ppl saying he's a hockey genius who can **** puppies.

Some ppl saying he's ****.

Some ppl saying both sides arguing this topic are full of ****.

Some ppl saying he isn't quite **** but not the **** either.

So this thread is 25 pages full of what?

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11-08-2011, 03:25 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Nacho View Post
I wouldnt count on that happening as long as Renney is the coach...
True, because Tom Renney is known as a coach who holds players back.

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11-08-2011, 03:29 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
That's the thing he needs to move it quicker, so I'd assume that's something the team doesn't want him doing anymore. It's something that has screwed with our PP in the past, guys need to move the puck more.
I agree. Omark and Hemsky are both way too prone to hanging on to it too long. The problem is that at the AHL level, 'too long' is 5 seconds whereas in the NHL, it's 2. Honestly, if Omark is standing there along the boards stickhandling and no one is challenging him, why on Earth would he be in a hurry to move it? He's thinking to himself, "Okay, coach wants me to give up the puck in order to get it back here, but this guy facing me is slower than ****. I bet if I just hang on to it a second longer and draw him in a bit, I can walk around him ... yup .. now draw his buddy over to me ... okay ... pull off a neat little saucer to Harski there and ... yup, Goal! Yes! Oh, wait ... dammit. Coach is gonna be pissed."

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11-08-2011, 03:48 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
You're referring toteh post where I said;

Seriously, why is everybody all excited about Neslon's comment?




Anyways, there is clear inference by all sides when it comes to discussing what is stated, or even more common, repeated from an interview.

I stand by my interpretation in this case.

Nelson said the Oilers want Omark to work on his puck management - to which I interpreted to mean that they want him to stop overhandling it. I also asked for an alternate suggestion to what that may mean and the response was nadda. Based on that, I will further assume that my interpretation is generally agreed upon.

The next thing he said was offering up a reason why it doesn't appear to be happening. Is that a good thing that it is not happening? All I am hearing back from the fanatics is that Omark is too good for the league, as if that comment is Nelson's endorsement that Omark shouldn't be down there and as if has any bearing on the actual question.

I don't think there is a person in this conversation that doesn't think Omark has too much talent for the AHL and sufficient talent for the NHL but talent does not define a hockey player.

As of right now, based on Nelson's comment, it appears that Omarks affinity for and ability of displaying his talent is getting the best of his need to display the dicipline the Oilers are expressly looking for while he is down there.

But of course it's all about generalizatiosn and a hate on for this "type" of player. Right?
Well I guess I was lost in translation so I apologize if I offended you but your previous posts looked very different to me (I suppose that I misinterpreted them).

My point, the entire time, has been that people should stop bashing the guy's attitude based on interviews, tweets and whatever. Judge him for his game and leave it there.

If I misinterpreted you so much I suppose that your last sentenced was called but I really don't get these labels. Did I call you a hater? Am I a fanatic of Omark and in that case, how so?

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11-08-2011, 03:51 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Truth Movement View Post
I think this whole Omark thing is more of an indictment on the ignorance of the Oilers fanbase. There's no question that Omark's top end potential is second liner, but the way the fans here vilify him (egOmark? Really?) smacks of the kind of mindset that undermines a fanbase's best interests. He's a player with an abundance of confidence, however no coach has nailed him to the cross for being difficult to deal with or a problem. Still, the fanbase, in their infinite wisdom are doing just that, labeling the guy without justification. All I've ever heard about the guy is that he is focused, driven and highly competitive. He's also confident, but contains some holes in his game. I don't think Omark is a Schremp or a Nilsson, but I'm not sure if he's a Whitney of a Satan, but I think the potential is there. The fanbase needs to just grow up.
The Omark fanclub needs to grow up. Obviously its not all of his fans and I still consider myself a fan of his. However its the fanbase that were nowhere to be seen until Omark made the team. Then they proceeded to tell us they are way smarter then us, Renney sucks, the AHL is for losers, oilers managment is incompetent, Omark is better then Eberle or Hemsky etc. Pretty much as soon as he was pronounced better then god people started to turn on him.

Heck I would say nacho has single hnadedly ruined Omark to many oiler fans on HF

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11-08-2011, 03:54 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by Nacho View Post
I wouldnt count on that happening as long as Renney is the coach...
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
True, because Tom Renney is known as a coach who holds players back.
....implying that Renny coaches a defense-first style and Linus has to try and adapt to that system rather than play the game hes been playing for his entire career. Dont be ignorant.

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11-08-2011, 03:58 PM
  #618
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The Omark fanclub needs to grow up. As soon as he was pronounced better then god people started to turn on him. Heck I would say nacho has single handedly ruined Omark to many oiler fans on HF
Link or it didn't happen.

And I guess the difference between us is that Nacho has singlehandedly ruined Nacho for me. The guy's opinions of Omark have no bearing on my own. You should try that. Also, I'm pretty sure there's an ignore option somewhere.

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11-08-2011, 03:58 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
So you missed the point, that's fine, it doesn't mean it's not correct.
No I understand the point, you dislike that a certain group of posters who constantly have to tell everyone how great Omark is. So you either ignore, or you rebuttle and say why he isn't as great as they are saying.

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11-08-2011, 03:59 PM
  #620
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Originally Posted by NAF View Post
I agree. Omark and Hemsky are both way too prone to hanging on to it too long. The problem is that at the AHL level, 'too long' is 5 seconds whereas in the NHL, it's 2. Honestly, if Omark is standing there along the boards stickhandling and no one is challenging him, why on Earth would he be in a hurry to move it? He's thinking to himself, "Okay, coach wants me to give up the puck in order to get it back here, but this guy facing me is slower than ****. I bet if I just hang on to it a second longer and draw him in a bit, I can walk around him ... yup .. now draw his buddy over to me ... okay ... pull off a neat little saucer to Harski there and ... yup, Goal! Yes! Oh, wait ... dammit. Coach is gonna be pissed."
I don't think there is much of an issue with a guy standing around with the puck on a 5-on-5, but how often is that the situation?

The problem occurs when you are just going to stand with the puck on the PP and kill time, what good are you doing? The PK will let you sit there all day. The other issue and Hemsky has this too, is they will hold onto for those extra seconds when on the rush only to lose the puck and not get a chance. It's all find and dandy to make those mistakes from time to time, especially when you are producing but when you're not the coach will get frustrated with you.

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11-08-2011, 04:09 PM
  #621
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No I understand the point, you dislike that a certain group of posters who constantly have to tell everyone how great Omark is. So you either ignore, or you rebuttle and say why he isn't as great as they are saying.
Ok, that's not it really at all.

This is the HF Oilers board, you and I, and many others are Oilers fans, we debate all manner of subjects related to the Oilers, their players, etc.

This is a case of a group of fans of just a single player, coming in from outside the board for the sole purpose of "educating and enlightening" Oilers Fans, fans of the TEAM, about the relative Greatness of one certain player, above and beyond the team.

Not sure what was hard to figure out about that.

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11-08-2011, 04:09 PM
  #622
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I wouldnt count on that happening as long as Renney is the coach...
Yes, it's the coach's fault he has no points so far, and did nothing when allowed to play with RNH and Eberle on the top line with easy minutes. It's the coach's fault that he is a defensive liability, and bleeds goals against. It's the coach's fault that he was put back to the AHL to learn how to manage the puck better. It's the coach's fault...

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11-08-2011, 04:11 PM
  #623
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....implying that Renny coaches a defense-first style and Linus has to try and adapt to that system rather than play the game hes been playing for his entire career. Dont be ignorant.
Good point

Just like he did to Jagr in the NY, or is doing to Eberle, Hall and the Nuge, totally stifling them for Defense first, right?

Ugh some of you.

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11-08-2011, 04:12 PM
  #624
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Ok, that's not it really at all.

This is the HF Oilers board, you and I, and many others are Oilers fans, we debate all manner of subjects related to the Oilers, their players, etc.

This is a case of a group of fans of just a single player, coming in from outside the board for the sole purpose of "educating and enlightening" Oilers Fans, fans of the TEAM, about the relative Greatness of one certain player, above and beyond the team.

Not sure what was hard to figure out about that.
Me either, your response seemed to be exactly what I said in three times the amount of words.

Point is I'm on your side Jimmi but it's not that hard to ignore and/or completely avoid a thread altogether.

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11-08-2011, 04:12 PM
  #625
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Originally Posted by NAF View Post
Link or it didn't happen.

And I guess the difference between us is that Nacho has singlehandedly ruined Nacho for me. The guy's opinions of Omark have no bearing on my own. You should try that. Also, I'm pretty sure there's an ignore option somewhere.
I guess this goes more to the case that you guys don't understand how overbearing you are on this one player.

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