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Filatov + 4th line = WHY?

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Old
11-05-2011, 11:58 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by themann View Post
As a huge Filatov fan I have questioned everything Ottawa has done so far. However looking back its absolutely briliant.

He clearly has many flaws in his game/practice etc. Everyone knows he has the skill.

What Ottawa has done in my opinion is this: A couple games first line, get a feel for it see how it works out. it doesnt work out. alright were going to let you watch a few games, then send you down to the minors. prove to everyone including yourself, that you can score. Now they are rebuilding his whole game, giving him limited time, making sure he has only 6-8 minutes to work on exactly what they want him too. not enough time to fall back into old habits.

I predict by January he will be playing a regular shift and contributing. Mclean knows if he turns Filly into a productive player, that will set in stone his ability as a coach. I have full faith now, and I look forward to following his progress throughout the year.
What about when Regin and Alfredsson come back?

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11-06-2011, 12:20 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by JonnyMacSen View Post
I know he's gotta earn his way into the top lines, but why oh why was he not picked for the shootout tonight? Its not like he's going to cause a goal against if you let him take a shot, and he's known to be a skilled shooter, I personally would have picked him to shoot well before Daug, Butler and Karlsson
I was wondering this too. I would also have picked him to shoot before the three players you mentioned.

Outside of Spezza and Michalek, Maclean's shootout choices were pretty bad(Filatov and Greening should've been given a chance to shoot).

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11-06-2011, 01:37 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Put there Spezza for 20 sec. shifts and we will see his play... It is enough bad imagine... he can skate but when he pass someone and he lost puck etc... you really imagine it simply.

IMO he will play 5 minutes today without PP and than again and than again... and some of us find reasons why he is bad etc... and will be content with this.
Early in the game tonight, he created a good scoring chance for himself, one for Winchester (that Winnie muffed) and laid a pretty good hit along the boards. Those are the kind of things that he needs to do ro move up. Instead he disappeared into perimeter playing wallflower who was constantly caught watching the play instead of getting involved. When he had the puck later in the game, his decision making was slow and he wasn't creating anything for anybody. He'd be dead weight on a better line right now, just like Butler. I'd promote him next game, because 1 good shift is more than I can recall from Butler in quite some time... but as it stands, the moment Alfie and Regin come back, both (Filatov & Butler) will be out of the lineup.

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Originally Posted by GK View Post
He won't produce while playing with Winchester. Play him with some other skilled players.
He can produce chances with 4th liners and he hasn't done enough of that.

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11-06-2011, 03:01 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Early in the game tonight, he created a good scoring chance for himself, one for Winchester (that Winnie muffed) and laid a pretty good hit along the boards. Those are the kind of things that he needs to do ro move up. Instead he disappeared into perimeter playing wallflower who was constantly caught watching the play instead of getting involved. When he had the puck later in the game, his decision making was slow and he wasn't creating anything for anybody. He'd be dead weight on a better line right now, just like Butler. I'd promote him next game, because 1 good shift is more than I can recall from Butler in quite some time... but as it stands, the moment Alfie and Regin come back, both (Filatov & Butler) will be out of the lineup.



He can produce chances with 4th liners and he hasn't done enough of that.
Do you think Da Costa and Foligno are better?No, they are whorse than he. And to game... we can think about his confidence later in the game because IMO all is confidence. Almost all players played bad in the season... but only Filatov must be benched, HS for a long time, sent to Bingo (O.K. he has ERC), and than played in the fourt line so much without chance to play higher and it not after bad game only one average game. And Butler who played tragical games yesterday... played again in the second line without benching. Foligno had tragical games too in this season... when he was benched or HS? Etc. I understand it does not do after a bad game but why with Nikita yes? This boy has unbelievable skill and speed why do not help him to improve his confidence? This is his problem. Howson, after his trade to Sens said not many players have in NHL are more talented than Nikita. Again, it was after his trade. There are were full of words after his destroying by Columbus on this board. And what do you do in Sens? Are you better? IMO now not... I do not know as in the future but now not. I agree with Bingo because of KK but after his return.... . If he will have confidence back this mistakes will not be anymore. I saw him in his first season in CBJ when his confidence was high. He was simply great. really great, he made idiots from d-men.


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11-06-2011, 03:43 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Do you think Da Costa and Foligno are better?No, they are whorse than he.
Da Costa and Foligno play a better team game than Filatov. Filatov is softer than Da Costa.

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11-06-2011, 03:48 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Da Costa and Foligno play a better team game than Filatov. Filatov is softer than Da Costa.
Btw, better team play can have a player from ECHL... or Konopka... put him to the second line he has better team game than Da Costa It is not extra reason

Btw, i am suprised that MacLeand did not try him on the center. i would try it, why not? He played there and not bad but very good his ice vision is simply great and passes too. You cannot lost anything only get.

Maybe (only try)

Greening--Spezza--Butler
Foligno--Filatov--Michalek
Daugavins--Smith--Neil
Winchester--Da Costa--Condra

and you will see whats happen... you can change it in the game if it will not good but again you cannot lost anything... only get. You can wake Butler too in the line with Spezza.


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11-06-2011, 03:50 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Do you think Da Costa and Foligno are better? No, they are whorse than he.
Foligno is better than both. He is an NHL veteran, Da Costa and Filatov are both skilled young guys that need to learn the NHL game. With Regin out, the Sens are short on centres, otherwise Da Costa would not be playing as much, so it isn't so much him vs. Filatov, and Da Costa has shown more defensive responsibility. They both wish they have the impact on a game that Foligno is having this season.

Filatov needs to take some lessons from Foligno on how to protect the puck and play along the boards. He is soft on the puck, and cannot create space to bring his skill out. He loses 95% of puck battles. These are skills that he would hone in the AHL.

But, with the injuries, it looks like Filatov is going to get a chance with Ottawa, it is up to him to seize it, no excuses about linemates, temperature of the water, his helmet is to tight, his visor is steaming up, the stick tape to skinny, the trainer doesn't sharpen his skates correctly, ice is soft, ice is chopppy, stick flex is wrong, or that the mean other team won't give him any time and space to show off his awesome skill set.

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11-06-2011, 04:02 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Spensar View Post
Foligno is better than both. He is an NHL veteran, Da Costa and Filatov are both skilled young guys that need to learn the NHL game. With Regin out, the Sens are short on centres, otherwise Da Costa would not be playing as much, so it isn't so much him vs. Filatov, and Da Costa has shown more defensive responsibility. They both wish they have the impact on a game that Foligno is having this season.

Filatov needs to take some lessons from Foligno on how to protect the puck and play along the boards. He is soft on the puck, and cannot create space to bring his skill out. He loses 95% of puck battles. These are skills that he would hone in the AHL.

But, with the injuries, it looks like Filatov is going to get a chance with Ottawa, it is up to him to seize it, no excuses about linemates, temperature of the water, his helmet is to tight, his visor is steaming up, the stick tape to skinny, the trainer doesn't sharpen his skates correctly, ice is soft, ice is chopppy, stick flex is wrong, or that the mean other team won't give him any time and space to show off his awesome skill set.
How excuses? Where does he play? In the fourth line? How many? Maximim about 8 minutes? How is his confidence? Under zero point IMO. And any suprise only one mistake or avarage game and... HS. Again I saw him when he was confidence... Foligno is not better. Foligno has only more self confidence.

If he played many games with good ice time with good players and he would not sit after one average, not bad play... I would agree but it did not happen. Btw, deffesnive is cliche... he never had problem with it even in Columbus under Arniel or even Hitch.

I hope MacLean wants to learn him checking more and get puck (his dispositions are great for it), play without the puck.... because with these players he can learn it great. If yes and it is a reason I would take my words back. of course


Last edited by mt-svk: 11-06-2011 at 04:07 AM.
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11-06-2011, 04:10 AM
  #109
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Understand me right if he gets many chances, many time on the ice...any benching or HS after one not great game and he would not use it... his problem... I would be agree with his sending away. But it did not happen yet.

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11-06-2011, 04:29 AM
  #110
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Filly had a good game and is now moving up to third line. The coach knows exactly what he is doing with him and how he wants to bring him onto the team.

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11-06-2011, 04:41 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Do you think Da Costa and Foligno are better?No, they are whorse than he. And to game... we can think about his confidence later in the game because IMO all is confidence. Almost all players played bad in the season... but only Filatov must be benched, HS for a long time, sent to Bingo (O.K. he has ERC), and than played in the fourt line so much without chance to play higher and it not after bad game only one average game. And Butler who played tragical games yesterday... played again in the second line without benching. Foligno had tragical games too in this season... when he was benched or HS? Etc. I understand it does not do after a bad game but why with Nikita yes? This boy has unbelievable skill and speed why do not help him to improve his confidence? This is his problem. Howson, after his trade to Sens said not many players have in NHL are more talented than Nikita. Again, it was after his trade. There are were full of words after his destroying by Columbus on this board. And what do you do in Sens? Are you better? IMO now not... I do not know as in the future but now not. I agree with Bingo because of KK but after his return.... . If he will have confidence back this mistakes will not be anymore. I saw him in his first season in CBJ when his confidence was high. He was simply great. really great, he made idiots from d-men.
Hey man, from one columbus fan to another, tough loss tonight, i think its time to blow up and trade Nash. Now onto the topic. I have to disagree with you. I truly believe that Mclean is rebuilding Filatov completely. By sending him down to the minors he was able to show that the skill to dominate is still there. Now that he is back up in the show, they have him playing limited ice time. I think this is because it alows him to not get distracted, I assume the coaches have a goal for him every shift. What this has shown to me is how unbelievably bad columbus messed him up. Now unlike in Columbus he doesn't get benched. Mclean is clearly rebuilding him into the player he knows he can be. it is going to be a long process. I do not believe he will get sent back down. If he was going to get sent down i think it would have already happened. its not like they dont have players sitting, that may fit the generic 4th line roll better (Konopka).

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11-06-2011, 05:06 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by themann View Post
Hey man, from one columbus fan to another, tough loss tonight, i think its time to blow up and trade Nash. Now onto the topic. I have to disagree with you. I truly believe that Mclean is rebuilding Filatov completely. By sending him down to the minors he was able to show that the skill to dominate is still there. Now that he is back up in the show, they have him playing limited ice time. I think this is because it alows him to not get distracted, I assume the coaches have a goal for him every shift. What this has shown to me is how unbelievably bad columbus messed him up. Now unlike in Columbus he doesn't get benched. Mclean is clearly rebuilding him into the player he knows he can be. it is going to be a long process. I do not believe he will get sent back down. If he was going to get sent down i think it would have already happened. its not like they dont have players sitting, that may fit the generic 4th line roll better (Konopka).
Probably my English was bad understand. So sorry for it.

1. I wrote I agree with his sending to Bingo because of KK who is simply great and I would like him in Falcons, I wrote it not once.... and I agreed with his time there that not only two-three games but more for improving his play. No problem.

2. I was only shocked Butler was not put tho the fourth line after one bad game and Filatov after average yes. But I agree with it that it is bad for anyone player to put him lower for one bad game and agree with Butlers chance in another game it was simply right step by MacLean.

3. I wrote if MacLean wants to learn him more check, be a good in the taking of pucks like Datsyuk (because he has dispositions for it) and improving his play without puck the similar players are ideal... I will take my words back in this case I do not have any problem wit it. I hope it is so because he wanted Nikita to the team before season and I will believe him maybe I am wrong in my mark wit the ice time etc. if yes, sorry

4. I only claim what he needs it is improving his self confidence... and one thing... I am not fell in love 15 teen I am 36 I understand when you want to develop him... I often said he is not MacLean doghouse and not only here when some people wrote it. Only I was suprised he did not get more ice time in the next game only so little.

I have no critique any Sens player that he is a bust or similar bad because it would be unfair from me and I hope you will play PO I claimed that yes before the season in the board in my country... nobody believes me

To Columbus... I am so sad from our achievments... I would trade half team, maybe more and let only Nash, Carter, Johansen, Prospal, Moore, Boll, Atkinson, Wisniewski and Tyutin. I do not count players in the farm of course . And began to rebuild from the first picks like Edmonton.... I am CBJ fan 5 years... 5 long years.... and will be ... but I like Sens for Anton Volchenkov ... but it is not board about us

Sorry my English I can speak Russian and German but English not yet.


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11-06-2011, 05:31 AM
  #113
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Its hard to do many productive things in a game when you play 6-7 minutes and your linemates are Winchester, Condra, Konopka.

I can understand the approach, trying to redefine his game, because he can be terrible without the puck sometimes and it actually is a really good idea. But to give him two games in the NHL was just terrible.


Since every other player is getting a free pass except Filatov, I'd suggest reuniting the Greening - Spezza - Butler line because clearly the only player that can get anything out of Butler is Spezza. If he can't stick there, then you have to consider the alternative. I like Regin or Da Costa with Filatov because the chemistry was much better than with Spezza.

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11-06-2011, 05:43 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Its hard to do many productive things in a game when you play 6-7 minutes and your linemates are Winchester, Condra, Konopka.

I can understand the approach, trying to redefine his game, because he can be terrible without the puck sometimes and it actually is a really good idea. But to give him two games in the NHL was just terrible.


Since every other player is getting a free pass except Filatov, I'd suggest reuniting the Greening - Spezza - Butler line because clearly the only player that can get anything out of Butler is Spezza. If he can't stick there, then you have to consider the alternative. I like Regin or Da Costa with Filatov because the chemistry was much better than with Spezza.
I cannot agree if Sens sent him for improving his play without puck and they know they have great coach for it... it is better sooner than later to make this decision. If it was in CBJ I would not happy because our coach in Falcons would not teach him so good like KK. IMO when I see KKand his qualities it was simply great and right decision by Murray

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11-06-2011, 07:21 AM
  #115
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last night was probably his best game in a sens uniform, he's buzzing.

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11-06-2011, 07:43 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Do you think Da Costa and Foligno are better?
Yes, they are. DaCosta has been a little better, but Foligno has been much better than DaCosta, Filatov or Butler.

Foligno is better defensively, better at retrieving the puck and has created a lot more offensively for himself and his linemates than Filatov this season.

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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Btw, i am suprised that MacLeand did not try him on the center. i would try it, why not? He played there and not bad but very good his ice vision is simply great and passes too. You cannot lost anything only get.
He hasn't handled the puck or made plays well enough to look like he could play offensively as a centre, let alone risking him taking on increased defensive responsibilities. There would be a lot to lose by trying that.

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How excuses? Where does he play? In the fourth line? How many? Maximim about 8 minutes? How is his confidence? Under zero point IMO. And any suprise only one mistake or avarage game and... HS. Again I saw him when he was confidence... Foligno is not better. Foligno has only more self confidence.
Energy players who make big body checks play 6-8 minutes a game. They charge up on the bench and skate out there like firecrackers, unlike big minute players like Redden or Jay-Bo who pace themselves by playing minimalist games for 26+ mins. Filatov should have more than enough energy to do something exciting with his skating and stickhandling abilities. He just isn't. He has the ability to burn himself out every shift and look like one of the better players on the team with such low ice time.

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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Its hard to do many productive things in a game when you play 6-7 minutes and your linemates are Winchester, Condra, Konopka.

I can understand the approach, trying to redefine his game, because he can be terrible without the puck sometimes and it actually is a really good idea. But to give him two games in the NHL was just terrible.


Since every other player is getting a free pass except Filatov, I'd suggest reuniting the Greening - Spezza - Butler line because clearly the only player that can get anything out of Butler is Spezza. If he can't stick there, then you have to consider the alternative. I like Regin or Da Costa with Filatov because the chemistry was much better than with Spezza.
He's a good stickhandler playing on a line where nobody else can handle the puck. He should be able to stand out and he isn't. He doesn't need to produce points to stand out. If he stickhandled himself into open ice and hit Winchester in the hands in front of an open net a few times, he'd move up. But he's just not doing enough of that.

Butler is the only player who arguably doesn't deserve to play ahead of Filatov right now. Everybody else is earning their ice time.

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11-06-2011, 08:10 AM
  #117
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Filatov doesn't know when to zig or zag, he's not in synch with Maclean's system or his teamates.

It may be because of a lack of confidence, but really I think he just does not have great hockey sense. He can dangle well, but he just doesn't seem to know where to go, when to attack, how to attack or how to defend when the puck is near him.

He had one good shift last night but didn't build on it, he isn't focused. He just can't seem to build off of anything, that's his main problem.

Once he puts 2 good shifts together then two good periods, then two good games, he'll be ready for 3rd line duty, but he just seems to not have it between the ears right now.

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11-06-2011, 08:38 AM
  #118
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He had one good shift last night but didn't build on it, he isn't focused.
I remember at list 2 very solid shifts from last game.

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11-06-2011, 08:47 AM
  #119
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Filatov doesn't know when to zig or zag, he's not in synch with Maclean's system or his teamates.

It may be because of a lack of confidence, but really I think he just does not have great hockey sense. He can dangle well, but he just doesn't seem to know where to go, when to attack, how to attack or how to defend when the puck is near him.

He had one good shift last night but didn't build on it, he isn't focused. He just can't seem to build off of anything, that's his main problem.

Once he puts 2 good shifts together then two good periods, then two good games, he'll be ready for 3rd line duty, but he just seems to not have it between the ears right now.
great hockey sense is something what scouts said about him.... imo lack of confidence... when i compare his first season and now.... and it is interesting his defenive was very good in cbj

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11-06-2011, 08:50 AM
  #120
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Yes, they are. DaCosta has been a little better, but Foligno has been much better than DaCosta, Filatov or Butler.

Foligno is better defensively, better at retrieving the puck and has created a lot more offensively for himself and his linemates than Filatov this season.



He hasn't handled the puck or made plays well enough to look like he could play offensively as a centre, let alone risking him taking on increased defensive responsibilities. There would be a lot to lose by trying that.



Energy players who make big body checks play 6-8 minutes a game. They charge up on the bench and skate out there like firecrackers, unlike big minute players like Redden or Jay-Bo who pace themselves by playing minimalist games for 26+ mins. Filatov should have more than enough energy to do something exciting with his skating and stickhandling abilities. He just isn't. He has the ability to burn himself out every shift and look like one of the better players on the team with such low ice time.



He's a good stickhandler playing on a line where nobody else can handle the puck. He should be able to stand out and he isn't. He doesn't need to produce points to stand out. If he stickhandled himself into open ice and hit Winchester in the hands in front of an open net a few times, he'd move up. But he's just not doing enough of that.

Butler is the only player who arguably doesn't deserve to play ahead of Filatov right now. Everybody else is earning their ice time.
we will see after more ice time


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11-06-2011, 10:16 AM
  #121
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How excuses?
Not from Filatov, just fans. He has been given chances on better lines and he is continuing the same kind of play as he did in Columbus before getting dumped for a 3rd rounder. He didn't show progress like other prospects during training camp. Maclean said that at the start of camp he was about the best young guy, and near the end he had been passed because his level of play did not improve while it had for the others. The spot Filatov is in now is of his own making, and he has to show improvement to get out of it. Stop blaming Maclean because he plays the guys more that are going better.

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11-06-2011, 10:29 AM
  #122
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11-06-2011, 10:45 AM
  #123
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Two games in a row now I thought he has looked good, has been hard on the fore check and the back check (even throwing hits to take people off the puck). With Konopka out and Condra on his line, it helped him get a tad bit more chances in the offensive zone last night. He has the skills but it looks like he's too scared to try anything crafty out there it's almost as if he has been playing not to lose and not playing to win. I just want to see him pot a goal and get some confidence I am rooting for him.

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11-06-2011, 10:46 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
He's a good stickhandler playing on a line where nobody else can handle the puck. He should be able to stand out and he isn't. He doesn't need to produce points to stand out. If he stickhandled himself into open ice and hit Winchester in the hands in front of an open net a few times, he'd move up. But he's just not doing enough of that.

Butler is the only player who arguably doesn't deserve to play ahead of Filatov right now. Everybody else is earning their ice time.
If he stickhandled his way through the defence and gave Winchester an open net pass, I would half expect him to miss anyways. Da Costa gets one of those plays down maybe every two games and look at his ice time.

Its hard to get the puck on a consistent basis, when everyone is grinding and with any players who can hardly on throw a clean pass himself. Basically, I see 2-3 legitimate opportunities a game on the fourth line. To expect every time to have successful scoring attempts or even shifts for that matter is foolish, Spezza couldn't even do that.

Foligno is earning 2nd line ice time? Greening is earning 1st line ice time? Da Costa is earning 2nd line ice time? Butler is earning second line time? Its very easy to make a case NONE of these guys belong on any teams top six in the NHL on any team. I'd say Michalek, Spezza, Neil, Smith have for forwards earn there time and thats it. Filatov hasn't played well enough to warrant being a consistent top six player, but he hasn't been given much of a reasonable of a shot either.

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11-06-2011, 11:25 AM
  #125
Karlssonlee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themann View Post
As a huge Filatov fan I have questioned everything Ottawa has done so far. However looking back its absolutely briliant.

He clearly has many flaws in his game/practice etc. Everyone knows he has the skill.

What Ottawa has done in my opinion is this: A couple games first line, get a feel for it see how it works out. it doesnt work out. alright were going to let you watch a few games, then send you down to the minors. prove to everyone including yourself, that you can score. Now they are rebuilding his whole game, giving him limited time, making sure he has only 6-8 minutes to work on exactly what they want him too. not enough time to fall back into old habits.

I predict by January he will be playing a regular shift and contributing. Mclean knows if he turns Filly into a productive player, that will set in stone his ability as a coach. I have full faith now, and I look forward to following his progress throughout the year.


Great post, this seems very logical and make sense. Maclean is giving him very strict orders to see whether he is discipline enough to play the style he wants in limited ice time.

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