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Rangers Interested in Cody Franson

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Old
11-03-2011, 08:38 AM
  #326
dubplatepressure
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Yes he is -- but that doesn't mean Komi deserved to be in around game 5&6 when he wasn't playing his best hockey. Burke's stubbornness is what kept giving Komisarek opportunities, contributing to why Franson isn't in the lineup (in addition to being the wrong fit in place of Komi).

Franson is lacklustre defensively. He was +25 in Nashville because he played bottom-of-the-lineup minutes. Lebda wasn't lacklustre, he was terrible.
Oooohhh bottom line minutes. Whatever - bad or good +25, it's still a +25 on a playoff team

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11-03-2011, 08:42 AM
  #327
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don't see a leafs/ rangers deal happening burke has said they are he and sather are good friends and thus sather is hard to deal with

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11-03-2011, 09:11 AM
  #328
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Wondering why the Rangers fans here seem to think Sather is trading from a position of power. The Leafs don't really need to trade anyone right now. Rangers need this trade alot more than we do.

Saying that, I'd settle for the Rangers 2nd round pick. No roster players that aren't a direct upgrade on the roster.
The Rangers also don't NEED to make a trade right now. Their defensive depth ain't fantastic at the moment, with Staal out, but Franson doesn't improve it so much that he's incredibly necessary either.

Their PP has been working much better lately...Richards and Del Zotto have been working the points quite well, and Girardi is quietly chipping in plenty of points playing smart hockey.

Bottom line is that neither team has to make a trade like this right now...the Rangers aren't desperate for a defenseman, it'd just be good to get one if it's possible. Leafs aren't desperate to trade Franson, it'd just be good to move him for something instead of having him ride the pine. If a deal is there, great, though it's extremely unlikely that one is there for a Rangers top prospect or any current roster player not named Emminger or Woywitka. Mayyybe they'd do a 2nd round pick but I also think Sather isn't in a hurry right now to do much. Obviously I don't have his phone # though so who knows for sure

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11-03-2011, 09:17 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
don't see a leafs/ rangers deal happening burke has said they are he and sather are good friends and thus sather is hard to deal with
Sather is very shrewd with trades he makes. It still boggles my mind how a man that is so good at trades can be so clueless in the FA market.

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11-03-2011, 09:28 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
Oooohhh bottom line minutes. Whatever - bad or good +25, it's still a +25 on a playoff team
If we are going to base present value off of past accomplishments we got a GREAT player for you - Wade Redden!

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11-03-2011, 09:32 AM
  #331
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Burke and Wilson have both said to have a playoff bound team you need 8 NHL ready defensmen. Cody Franson is a NHL ready defesnman and unless the Rangers offer something of value, I highly doubt Burke even considers trading him. Especially for some of the crap offered in this thread

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11-03-2011, 09:33 AM
  #332
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If we are going to base present value off of past accomplishments we got a GREAT player for you - Wade Redden!
By that statement Dubinsky, Staal and a host of other Rangers have very little value.

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11-03-2011, 09:39 AM
  #333
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By that statement Dubinsky, Staal and a host of other Rangers have very little value.
How so? Going by past accomplishments of those two, you have a 20 goal scorer and an all star defenseman.

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11-03-2011, 11:19 AM
  #334
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This thread needs to die.

Franson isn't even playing atm. He's been in the pressbox to start the season. How anyone can think he has more value than a 3rd rounder is beyond me.

Sure maybe a 2nd rounder is the overpayment that would get him.

But to think that he can get a great return. Give me a break. There are #5/6 d-men out there available all the time.

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11-03-2011, 11:38 AM
  #335
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This thread needs to die.

Franson isn't even playing atm. He's been in the pressbox to start the season. How anyone can think he has more value than a 3rd rounder is beyond me.

Sure maybe a 2nd rounder is the overpayment that would get him.

But to think that he can get a great return. Give me a break. There are #5/6 d-men out there available all the time.
your #1 problem is that you think your blueline has as much depth as ours... it doesn't. franson is sitting in the pressbox for us, doesn't mean he'd sit in the pressbox with the rags, habs, oilers, lightning, jersey, isles, canes, flames, or jackets ... where he'd be a serviceable #5 or 6 who can be on the 2nd PP and a #4 with injuries.

3rd rd pick, rofl. let's re-visit this thread when franson gets traded.

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11-03-2011, 12:03 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
Sather is very shrewd with trades he makes. It still boggles my mind how a man that is so good at trades can be so clueless in the FA market.
Have to say: to this day it still boggles my mind how he convinced the Habs to take Gomez. That trade was a cap lifesaver for you guys.

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11-03-2011, 12:08 PM
  #337
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Yah.... and what's your point? By your own words our D is playing much better than anticipated, hense his position right now. That doesn't mean he isn't and won't be needed.

For the record - it's not that Franson can't break the lineup. He could slot in anywhere from 4-6 right now and do well. Wilson et. all are trying not to screw with a lineup that's found early season success while the entire organization is walking on egg shells terrified of another 10-game slide.
My point was obvious, Burke is tied to Komi via the big contract, he has to play him, he's one of Burke's untouchable boys. Not that he is actually a plus player you think they are going to take him out of the lineup? The only way Franson sees regular duty is if one of our D go down. Did I really have to explain this? So if you are Franson are you going to be happy being the 7th guy?

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11-03-2011, 12:27 PM
  #338
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My point was obvious, Burke is tied to Komi via the big contract, he has to play him, he's one of Burke's untouchable boys. Not that he is actually a plus player you think they are going to take him out of the lineup? The only way Franson sees regular duty is if one of our D go down. Did I really have to explain this? So if you are Franson are you going to be happy being the 7th guy?
No, you didn't. At all. Why did you? What is your point? That Franson's playing time is linked to Burke's ego? Last time I checked Wilson ran the lines. But I'm sure you already know that, being all in the know as you are, and are already prepping a response along the lines of "Wilson is Burke's puppet...".

Burke isn't 'tied' to anyone. It's a ridiculous and foolish statement commonly made by armchair GMs thinking they have it all figured out. Franson will get his shot, and in the mean time he waits. Our blue line is deep, and organizational staff is hesitant to fix something that's already working.

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11-03-2011, 12:54 PM
  #339
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No, you didn't. At all. Why did you? What is your point? That Franson's playing time is linked to Burke's ego? Last time I checked Wilson ran the lines. But I'm sure you already know that, being all in the know as you are, and are already prepping a response along the lines of "Wilson is Burke's puppet...".

Burke isn't 'tied' to anyone. It's a ridiculous and foolish statement commonly made by armchair GMs thinking they have it all figured out. Franson will get his shot, and in the mean time he waits. Our blue line is deep, and organizational staff is hesitant to fix something that's already working.
You're losing me. I've read your posts 3 times and I still don't know what you are talking about. I addressed what I thought was your query on Franson. As for Burke being tied to Komi, hopefully you can use your common sense, any other player that has played like that the first 2 seasons with the leafs and sporadically this year would be in the minors now. If this isn't being tied to a player, what is?

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11-03-2011, 01:56 PM
  #340
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He was a throw in. He's a healthy scratch as of right now. The only value he has is for a C or so level prospect and a mid round pick. How could you possibly think he has any value whatsoever? What has he done other than suck for the most part? I mean, he sucks so much that he can't even suck on the ice right now.

This is a spare part #7 d-man. He is almost waiver fodder. If he were not regarded highly a few years back, he'd already of been on waivers.

I just don't get how any Leafs fan thinks this guy has actual value. I can understand how some are saying it's stupid to trade him because of that. But I don't see how anyone can think he has legitimate, real value.
I don't get how you have so much to say, with clearly little knowledge of the situation.

Franson is a bottom pairing defenseman with top 4 upside... Being buried behind depth is the only reason he was scratched.... Yes, he was the incentive to take Lombardi... A player who is overpaid even when healthy and at the time of the trade, was looking like a player who needed a team to pick up his medical bills.

If Nashville knew how quickly Lombardi would progress, do you think they still would have given up Franson to dump him? I don't. Nashville thought Lombardi would be on LTIR and be responsible for his salary and medical bills... A healthy Lombardi, wouldn't require Franson as incentive.

Malkin plays on the second line of a healthy Pittsburgh team... Does that make him a number 2 centre? No, no more then Franson as 7 on a deep blueline makes him a 7.... All teams and situations are different. You're reading too much into the situation he's in, rather then the player he is.

He would be #5 in NY, and 6 when Staal returns and certainly has potential for growth.

Again, the Leafs don't have to trade him... If somebody wants him, you'll have to make it worth it... MZA isn't worth it. Right or wrong, I would bet most Leaf fans would like to see Frattin, Colborne, or Kadri get into the line up before him.


Any Ranger fan who disputes that, can agree to disagree... That's the consensus from Leaf fans that I've read in here.

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11-03-2011, 02:14 PM
  #341
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I think Zucc for Franson is a very fair trade.
As much as I hate to let go of Zucc, I don't see Tortorella giving him top 9 minutes.
Both TBH are victims of depth, and both have performed at the NHL level.
I wouldn't do the trade if I saw Zuccarello getting playing time because I think he can be a 60 point NHLer. Unfortunately Torts is very stubborn.
Point is that Zuccarello won't crack the top nine because on the Right side he won't displace Gaborik or Callahan (Obviously). The second issue is that Torts loves giving Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko 14 mins of ice time regardless. That leaves no ice time for a 3rd scoring line (Hence why he was demoted).
I think Zucc could crack the leafs top 9 because of injuries and lack of depth on the RW.

Franson on the other hand is similar in the sense that he'd be a bottom pairing guy on any other team, but the leafs have a lot of $$$ invested in the D. Now he is sitting in the pressbox.

Its a similar situation, and both could probably get additional ice time and end up performing better on a new team.

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11-03-2011, 02:19 PM
  #342
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I don't get how you have so much to say, with clearly little knowledge of the situation.

Franson is a bottom pairing defenseman with top 4 upside... Being buried behind depth is the only reason he was scratched.... Yes, he was the incentive to take Lombardi... A player who is overpaid even when healthy and at the time of the trade, was looking like a player who needed a team to pick up his medical bills.

If Nashville knew how quickly Lombardi would progress, do you think they still would have given up Franson to dump him? I don't. Nashville thought Lombardi would be on LTIR and be responsible for his salary and medical bills... A healthy Lombardi, wouldn't require Franson as incentive.

Malkin plays on the second line of a healthy Pittsburgh team... Does that make him a number 2 centre? No, no more then Franson as 7 on a deep blueline makes him a 7.... All teams and situations are different. You're reading too much into the situation he's in, rather then the player he is.

He would be #5 in NY, and 6 when Staal returns and certainly has potential for growth.

Again, the Leafs don't have to trade him... If somebody wants him, you'll have to make it worth it... MZA isn't worth it. Right or wrong, I would bet most Leaf fans would like to see Frattin, Colborne, or Kadri get into the line up before him.


Any Ranger fan who disputes that, can agree to disagree... That's the consensus from Leaf fans that I've read in here.
Perfectly said!

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11-03-2011, 02:21 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
I don't get how you have so much to say, with clearly little knowledge of the situation.

Franson is a bottom pairing defenseman with top 4 upside... Being buried behind depth is the only reason he was scratched.... Yes, he was the incentive to take Lombardi... A player who is overpaid even when healthy and at the time of the trade, was looking like a player who needed a team to pick up his medical bills.

If Nashville knew how quickly Lombardi would progress, do you think they still would have given up Franson to dump him? I don't. Nashville thought Lombardi would be on LTIR and be responsible for his salary and medical bills... A healthy Lombardi, wouldn't require Franson as incentive.

Malkin plays on the second line of a healthy Pittsburgh team... Does that make him a number 2 centre? No, no more then Franson as 7 on a deep blueline makes him a 7.... All teams and situations are different. You're reading too much into the situation he's in, rather then the player he is.

He would be #5 in NY, and 6 when Staal returns and certainly has potential for growth.

Again, the Leafs don't have to trade him... If somebody wants him, you'll have to make it worth it... MZA isn't worth it. Right or wrong, I would bet most Leaf fans would like to see Frattin, Colborne, or Kadri get into the line up before him.


Any Ranger fan who disputes that, can agree to disagree... That's the consensus from Leaf fans that I've read in here.
U do realize you described Zuccarello as well. MZA is in exactly the same situation...Buried by depth. He is a top 9 player with top 6 upside. He put up 1/2 a PPG in the NHL.

I would not trade Zuccarello for Franson if the Rangers were giving him space in the top 9. However, they are not - much like Franson. Therefore it is a great deal for both teams. I do feel that Toronto ends up with the better player - but what can you do...he won't get a chance in NY.

Just to prove Zucc hasn't had a shot (see my prev post), he had 14 mins last year at 1/2 ppg. This year he started at 8 minutes with a struggling Stepan and injured Wolski. Then when Wolski missed time, Torts elected to construct a line of grinders - meaning Newbury got a call up, and Zucc got send down. He has literally had no chance. Lombardi-Zuccarello could be a very decent duo on the 3rd line.

And at end of the day Burke said he is available. Zucc is an exceptional return for a guy who is on the bench, and won't see very much ice time.

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11-03-2011, 02:22 PM
  #344
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And let me paint another.


He led the team in D points through 12 games - 6 pts, 1 more than Suter or Weber. He did this while averaging half as much PP time per game as Suter and Weber.

He averaged 15 minutes of ice, per game, and led the team in takeaways while tied for lowest giveaways.


This guy may be soft but he certainly isn't the bottom pairing scrap that most of you are making him out to be.
Did you ever actually watch him play in Nashville or just look up the stats? David Legwand led the league in points at the start of this year... a small sample size can do wonders for a stat.

Here is what Nashville fans saw (I saw live or on TV all but maybe 4 of his nhl games): a slow sheltered soft d-man with a very, very good wrister and better-than-third-pairing passing skills. Not good enough or bad enough to be called a PP specialist. Not good enough to be 2nd pair. Not enough signs to suggest he has more upside. Not bad enough defensively to be Andy Delmore but not good enough offensively to be Andy Delmore.

Not sure what that's worth-- a 2nd or 3rd maybe-- but not Kreider by any stretch.

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11-03-2011, 02:26 PM
  #345
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Did you ever actually watch him play in Nashville or just look up the stats? David Legwand led the league in points at the start of this year... a small sample size can do wonders for a stat.

Here is what Nashville fans saw (I saw live or on TV all but maybe 4 of his nhl games): a slow sheltered soft d-man with a very, very good wrister and better-than-third-pairing passing skills. Not good enough or bad enough to be called a PP specialist. Not good enough to be 2nd pair. Not enough signs to suggest he has more upside. Not bad enough defensively to be Andy Delmore but not good enough offensively to be Andy Delmore.

Not sure what that's worth-- a 2nd or 3rd maybe-- but not Kreider by any stretch.
I'd trust the Nashville fan on this one. Franson hasn't played enough for Leaf fans to have a good idea of how much "potential" or how good he actually is...

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11-03-2011, 02:29 PM
  #346
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U do realize you described Zuccarello as well. MZA is in exactly the same situation...Buried by depth. He is a top 9 player with top 6 upside. He put up 1/2 a PPG in the NHL.

I would not trade Zuccarello for Franson if the Rangers were giving him space in the top 9. However, they are not - much like Franson. Therefore it is a great deal for both teams. I do feel that Toronto ends up with the better player - but what can you do...he won't get a chance in NY.

Just to prove Zucc hasn't had a shot (see my prev post), he had 14 mins last year at 1/2 ppg. This year he started at 8 minutes with a struggling Stepan and injured Wolski. Then when Wolski missed time, Torts elected to construct a line of grinders - meaning Newbury got a call up, and Zucc got send down. He has literally had no chance. Lombardi-Zuccarello could be a very decent duo on the 3rd line.

And at end of the day Burke said he is available. Zucc is an exceptional return for a guy who is on the bench, and won't see very much ice time.
No, it isn't. I haven't seen a single Leafs fan endorse this MZA proposal. When Colby Armstrong comes back, that third line spot is his for the taking. For the time being, there's plenty of people who can play there.

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11-03-2011, 02:35 PM
  #347
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No, it isn't. I haven't seen a single Leafs fan endorse this MZA proposal. When Colby Armstrong comes back, that third line spot is his for the taking. For the time being, there's plenty of people who can play there.
Of course you're not going to see Leaf fans want it.
They don't watch or know much about Zuccarello. At the same time you will naturally inflate Franson's worth (see what the Nashville fan said). Either way its fine, I'm not dying for Franson (Slow defensemen won't be able to play Torts' system well - and he will be chewed and spit out in NY if he can't keep up and gets burned). TBH I don't even want him. My point was more about Zuccs value and to how he is being utilized incorrectly in NY. Some team is going to get really lucky once they trade him.

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11-03-2011, 02:43 PM
  #348
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Did you ever actually watch him play in Nashville or just look up the stats? David Legwand led the league in points at the start of this year... a small sample size can do wonders for a stat.

Here is what Nashville fans saw (I saw live or on TV all but maybe 4 of his nhl games): a slow sheltered soft d-man with a very, very good wrister and better-than-third-pairing passing skills. Not good enough or bad enough to be called a PP specialist. Not good enough to be 2nd pair. Not enough signs to suggest he has more upside. Not bad enough defensively to be Andy Delmore but not good enough offensively to be Andy Delmore.

Not sure what that's worth-- a 2nd or 3rd maybe-- but not Kreider by any stretch.

Not to argue, but if you saw all but 4 of his games, why use someone else's opinion of his play? Further, no one said Kreider - look it up - I clearly said Toronto would have to add, and NYR fans went a$$ over tea kettle about how MUCH Toronto would need to add, and how BAD Franson is.

I think most would agree that generally Franson could probably be had for a 2nd. However, we're better off keeping him. That said, a) any inquiring team is not negotiating from a position of strength b) Interested team better not be in the Eastern or the price will further increase.

Them's just the rules.

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11-03-2011, 02:51 PM
  #349
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Rangers should get a vet if they need to plug a D-man. They have plenty of high upside young d-men on the team (Erixon, McDonagh, Del Zotto, McIllrath, Sauer). Franson doesn't have the value to the Rangers that he would have to other teams. He would be a redundant piece. The Rangers probably wouldn't offer more than a 3rd for him. Toronto would say no, because they could probably get a 2nd for him from a team that lacks young defensemen with the potential to get better.

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11-03-2011, 02:51 PM
  #350
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Did you ever actually watch him play in Nashville or just look up the stats? David Legwand led the league in points at the start of this year... a small sample size can do wonders for a stat.

Here is what Nashville fans saw (I saw live or on TV all but maybe 4 of his nhl games): a slow sheltered soft d-man with a very, very good wrister and better-than-third-pairing passing skills. Not good enough or bad enough to be called a PP specialist. Not good enough to be 2nd pair. Not enough signs to suggest he has more upside. Not bad enough defensively to be Andy Delmore but not good enough offensively to be Andy Delmore.

Not sure what that's worth-- a 2nd or 3rd maybe-- but not Kreider by any stretch.
Franson got some of the "Nashville defenseman? Shiny!" treatment when he was traded. If a 2nd or 3rd rounder is in fact the going value for him, then I think you'll find he's more valuable to the Leafs as a depth defender than in trade at this point. Maybe later on in the season we could see a trade like that if Burke thinks he should be playing somewhere or if a guy like Aulie makes a comeback to the Leafs roster replacing him as the #6/7.

Its funny...when the trade happened everyone thought that Franson was the main piece and Lombardi might never play again - now Franson is sitting in the pressbox and Lombardi is the more valuable one. Weird how that turned out.

Zuccarrello interests me for sure from NYR. I like the guy and he doesn't seem to fit in to the Rangers top nine; however, I don't see how he fits in to the Leafs top nine at this point either. He could fill in for Armstrong on the 3rd line until the injury is over but after that he'd likely be bumped out of a spot. Also, the "Norwegian Hobbit" doesn't fill Burke's desire for another forward with some size.

MZA is probably a better fit on a team looking to fill a hole in the top nine - maybe Carolina?

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