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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk

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Old
05-15-2012, 11:25 PM
  #751
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
Law of averages. There are always some GMs prepared to go for bold moves and pick someone surprisingly early (Derek Morris), some that just don't trust a prospect and bypass the obvious (Kopitar), but 30 gms overlooking Grigorenko? The odds are very low that 1 team in the top 2-10 range won't take that chance on a guy with top 2 talent, slipping to 20 on a few list is believable, but on 20 is pretty far fetched.

If Grigorenko is slipping to 20 I sure as hell hope we trade Luongo for Detroit's pick (19) and get him, Maata at 30 grab him with ours. If we walked out of the 1st round with Grigorenko and Maata..........
But he's not claiming that's when those players will get picked. He's ranking them based on how he perceives their talent and potential, which is why I'm comparing his list to the list of a single NHL team. Obviously once you consider all 30 teams you're unlikely to end up with something this extreme, but it's completely possible that one NHL team's list might look something like this.

I think Button is a joke but people at least need to consider the difference between this type of list (or Red Line's list) and ISS, TSN, etc.

---

In all honesty, I'm a lot more skeptical of all the new scouting sites that have popped up lately who mostly end up with lists that look very similar to what ISS, Central Scouting, and Bob McKenzie release. Those types of lists just make no sense to me — there's no way with the small staff they have that they could possibly end up with that type of a consensus list. For example, I have an acquaintance that scouts over in the Q (and he gets to do some OHL scouting, just for himself) and his personal list last season had Jenner all the way in the 3rd round, as well as many other "weird" drops/rises (he had Saad and Christopher Gibson in the Top 20).


Last edited by Tiranis: 05-15-2012 at 11:32 PM.
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05-16-2012, 12:26 AM
  #752
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the Dumba ***** continues........ :

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Old
05-16-2012, 01:17 AM
  #753
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I can't believe how low he has Grigerenko. Is this Russian bias or Q bias. Either way, it seems rather stupid. I still can't believe Couturier dropped to 10th last year, but it seems to happen to Q players in the draft.

And why is Murray outside the top ten. The kid is good enough to play for team Canada at the WHC before he is even drafted, but can't crack Button's top ten in a draft that is not perceived as deep.

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05-16-2012, 08:05 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
I can't believe how low he has Grigerenko. Is this Russian bias or Q bias. Either way, it seems rather stupid. I still can't believe Couturier dropped to 10th last year, but it seems to happen to Q players in the draft.

And why is Murray outside the top ten. The kid is good enough to play for team Canada at the WHC before he is even drafted, but can't crack Button's top ten in a draft that is not perceived as deep.
At least I can understand why he has Murray falling just outside the top 10. There are a lot of good Dmen, and Murray isn't an exceptional standout in any one area compared to the others. If Button projects him at a slightly more offensive Hamhuis 10-12 is plausable, behind guys with more gamebreaking offense or size.

OTOH someone like Mark Recchi sees shades of Ray Borque. Borque = top 3 pick, Hamhuis = 10-12.

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05-16-2012, 10:28 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
But he's not claiming that's when those players will get picked. He's ranking them based on how he perceives their talent and potential, which is why I'm comparing his list to the list of a single NHL team. Obviously once you consider all 30 teams you're unlikely to end up with something this extreme, but it's completely possible that one NHL team's list might look something like this.

I think Button is a joke but people at least need to consider the difference between this type of list (or Red Line's list) and ISS, TSN, etc.

---

In all honesty, I'm a lot more skeptical of all the new scouting sites that have popped up lately who mostly end up with lists that look very similar to what ISS, Central Scouting, and Bob McKenzie release. Those types of lists just make no sense to me there's no way with the small staff they have that they could possibly end up with that type of a consensus list. For example, I have an acquaintance that scouts over in the Q (and he gets to do some OHL scouting, just for himself) and his personal list last season had Jenner all the way in the 3rd round, as well as many other "weird" drops/rises (he had Saad and Christopher Gibson in the Top 20).
If you can appreciate Button's list as a conversation starter then they are OK.

I understand this is his ranking of who he sees being the better players 5 years down the line, the issue to me is when you reflect his own previous drafts (Calgary 2002-2004 I think) where he absolutely struck out. It doesn't lend well to his opinion having a lot of weight behind it.

The best thing he could do, is provide a list of risers and fallers and discuss why a few of those guys are ranked where he ranks them.
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
At least I can understand why he has Murray falling just outside the top 10. There are a lot of good Dmen, and Murray isn't an exceptional standout in any one area compared to the others. If Button projects him at a slightly more offensive Hamhuis 10-12 is plausable, behind guys with more gamebreaking offense or size.

OTOH someone like Mark Recchi sees shades of Ray Borque. Borque = top 3 pick, Hamhuis = 10-12.
Murray is the best defensman available...you know you are getting a 15 year pro, when you draft him. He's probably ready to step in this year.

So it makes sense from a team control perspective to take him over the other d-man (cant see any other d-man really even getting a sniff at the NHL next season). You draft Dumba or Rielly, you'll probably lose one year of the ELC, because I doubt either will be ready for 2013-2014 either.

Murray can come in, help you now, and probably be at a Dan Hamhuis like level before he's done his ELC, where a guy like Dumba may just be getting his feet wet in the AHL at that time.

Im not knocking Button that he is taking a risk having potential boom prospects ahead of Murray...Im just backing Murray, who I think at worst has Hamhuis upside.

I mean when you hear some people calling him Niedermayer like and Bourque-like for his top end, and Hamhuis when being conservative...that's the type of guy some of these lottery squads NEED. I mean it would be great to turn a Rielly or Dumba into a Keith or Chelios, but you might get stuck with a Kris Russsel and a Gilbert Brule (played same robust style as Dumba in the WHL, yet couldn't translate it to the PRO's).

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Old
05-16-2012, 11:26 AM
  #756
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Latest ISS ranking has Galchenyuk going 14th overall. If the Canucks trade Lou to TBay for their 1st rndr... Maybe we see a couple of good prospects added via the Lou trade. Or maybe, he gets dealt to TO for Komisarek and a 5th rndr.

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05-16-2012, 11:55 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Latest ISS ranking has Galchenyuk going 14th overall. If the Canucks trade Lou to TBay for their 1st rndr... Maybe we see a couple of good prospects added via the Lou trade. Or maybe, he gets dealt to TO for Komisarek and a 5th rndr.
I dont get how they can keep Galchenyuk down at 14th but have Rielly in their top 10. It makes no sense.

I think Galchenyuk and Rielly are both gone by 7th.

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05-16-2012, 12:03 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Latest ISS ranking has Galchenyuk going 14th overall. If the Canucks trade Lou to TBay for their 1st rndr... Maybe we see a couple of good prospects added via the Lou trade. Or maybe, he gets dealt to TO for Komisarek and a 5th rndr.
I dont' see Galchenyuk getting past the Leafs if they are drafting 5th.

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Old
05-16-2012, 12:22 PM
  #759
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I dont' see Galchenyuk getting past the Leafs if they are drafting 5th.
I doubt he gets passed Montreal at 3...

He's the only reason I truly want Toronto's pick, but he'll be gone.

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05-16-2012, 12:23 PM
  #760
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I doubt he gets passed Montreal at 3...

He's the only reason I truly want Toronto's pick, but he'll be gone.
I'd be surprised if MTL past on him too.


Last edited by Eddy Punch Clock: 05-16-2012 at 02:36 PM.
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Old
05-16-2012, 01:27 PM
  #761
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May Redline Report: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...ort/55015670/1

Interesting to see Laughton up at 17th. I think Vancouver would think about him at 26th.

Like to see a few more top 60 picks, so we can get a couple of these types.

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05-16-2012, 02:03 PM
  #762
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I like Scott Laughton as a possibility at 26th, he had a slow start but played PPG since December I think it was. He also plays a good two-way game, which was what he was known for before his rise in production.

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05-16-2012, 02:23 PM
  #763
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Haven't seen anyone mention Brady Skjei, he's a bigger defenseman 6'3 just over 200lbs and has speed to burn.

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05-16-2012, 02:26 PM
  #764
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I like Scott Laughton as a possibility at 26th, he had a slow start but played PPG since December I think it was. He also plays a good two-way game, which was what he was known for before his rise in production.
I know the temptation for first round picks is to "go big" and swing for the fences, but sometimes a guy like Laughton doesn't hurt. Reading his scouting reports reminds me somewhat of reading about Ryan O'Reilly before he was drafted...I foolishly thought that there was a hope O'Reilly would be around for the Canucks' 2nd that year.

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05-16-2012, 03:00 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I know the temptation for first round picks is to "go big" and swing for the fences, but sometimes a guy like Laughton doesn't hurt. Reading his scouting reports reminds me somewhat of reading about Ryan O'Reilly before he was drafted...I foolishly thought that there was a hope O'Reilly would be around for the Canucks' 2nd that year.
The comparable for O'Reilly to me is Gaunce, based on size.

O'Reilly pre-draft already had a man-body, and produced very well on a weak club...but had low goal totals.

Laughton to me is remiscent of a young Dave Bolland.

I wouldn't be sad with either with a 26th pick, I think Laughton might slip into the 2nd though.

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05-16-2012, 10:04 PM
  #766
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He was top 5 before his ACL injury, and then shot back up to top 5 again after he came back. He was ranked in the 20's during his injury.

Anyway, definitely agree with your opinion on Button. Guys a joke.
Remember, draft rankings is a lot different than mock draft. A draft ranking, you're listing who the best player is. Mock draft is predicting what a team will do with their pick.

Some teams take the BPA, others will try to fill a need. Some teams may need to add size to their prospect pool, others may need to grab some Dmen, etc. down the line.

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05-17-2012, 11:29 AM
  #767
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Remember, draft rankings is a lot different than mock draft. A draft ranking, you're listing who the best player is. Mock draft is predicting what a team will do with their pick.

Some teams take the BPA, others will try to fill a need. Some teams may need to add size to their prospect pool, Oilers may need to grab some Dmen, etc. down the line.
Definitely.

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05-17-2012, 12:15 PM
  #768
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The comparable for O'Reilly to me is Gaunce, based on size.

O'Reilly pre-draft already had a man-body, and produced very well on a weak club...but had low goal totals.

Laughton to me is remiscent of a young Dave Bolland.

I wouldn't be sad with either with a 26th pick, I think Laughton might slip into the 2nd though.
I actually like everything I've read about Girgensons, too bad he'll likely be gone by the time the Canucks pick. Some scouts think he could step into the league right away.

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05-17-2012, 12:25 PM
  #769
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I actually like everything I've read about Girgensons, too bad he'll likely be gone by the time the Canucks pick. Some scouts think he could step into the league right away.
I also like Girgensons, I really liked what I saw of him at the WJC. In the games I saw he was the best Latvian player. He protected the puck really well and could take it through traffic. When Latvia played Denmark, Denmark kept Latvia out of their defensive zone for most of the 1st period. The only time Latvia was able to keep possession in the offensive zone was when Girgensons took the puck, carried it in and held on to it until the rest of team was set up in the zone. Denmark might not be the best team, but every other attempt by Latvia was unsuccessful.

I doubt he goes straight into the league, since he has already committed himself to Univ. of Vermont next year.

I doubt he'll be available at 26th though, but then again, I also thought Jensen would've been taken long before 29th last year.

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05-17-2012, 01:10 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I actually like everything I've read about Girgensons, too bad he'll likely be gone by the time the Canucks pick. Some scouts think he could step into the league right away.
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Originally Posted by Jevo View Post
I also like Girgensons, I really liked what I saw of him at the WJC. In the games I saw he was the best Latvian player. He protected the puck really well and could take it through traffic. When Latvia played Denmark, Denmark kept Latvia out of their defensive zone for most of the 1st period. The only time Latvia was able to keep possession in the offensive zone was when Girgensons took the puck, carried it in and held on to it until the rest of team was set up in the zone. Denmark might not be the best team, but every other attempt by Latvia was unsuccessful.

I doubt he goes straight into the league, since he has already committed himself to Univ. of Vermont next year.

I doubt he'll be available at 26th though, but then again, I also thought Jensen would've been taken long before 29th last year.
Yeah, if you go to the beginning of this thread he has been one of my targets all year. I'm just resigned to him not being available.

Another issue about him is he compares his game/style/passion to Ryan Kesler. The team needs more Kesler's IMO.

Another thing, if we were able to get him...we might be able to convince him to come to the 'Dub. His rights are held by the Kelowna Rockets.

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05-17-2012, 04:27 PM
  #771
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Another thing, if we were able to get him...we might be able to convince him to come to the 'Dub. His rights are held by the Kelowna Rockets.
Don't think that's going to be an option. He sounded very turned off by kelowna and the way they treated him during the last offseason. It made his decision to stay en route via the NCAA very easy. Maybe if his rights were traded a la Seth jones, then something can happen. But I see him going to college.

Kesler is the guy he models his game after, I think he mentioned that in an interview.

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05-17-2012, 09:05 PM
  #772
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Here are a couple of BCHL players to keep an eye out for in the 5th or 6th round.

Jujhar Khaira, Prince George Spruce Kings 6'3 195 lbs
BCHL GP 54 G 29 A 50 Pts 79 PIM 69

Committed to Michigan Tech


Reece Wilcox, Merrit Centennials 6'3 D

I watched Reece a couple of games this year, he's in the mold of a Hamhuis type D. Good at many things, not outstanding at anything.

Committed to Cornell


Paul De Jersey, Prince George Spruce Kings
6'3 200 lbs Forward 19 year old
GP 59 G 41 A 57 Pts 98 PIM 58

Committed to Providence


Wade Murphy, Penticton Vees
6'0 180 Center
GP 60 G 36 A 55 Pts 91 in addition had 18 pts in 15 playoff games (9 G, 9 A), which lead the playoffs

Committed to Merrimack


Last edited by BerSTUzzi: 05-17-2012 at 09:14 PM.
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05-18-2012, 06:39 PM
  #773
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Thanks berstuzzi.

De jersey sure rose from the mid terms eh.

What kind of game does he play? Comparables?

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05-19-2012, 09:21 AM
  #774
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Thanks berstuzzi.

De jersey sure rose from the mid terms eh.

What kind of game does he play? Comparables?
He grew a lot between 18-19, I believe I read (I'll look again for it) from 6'0 to 6'3 and lead the league in points this year. When you go from 17pts in 43 games to 98 in 59 games you hope it isn't just due to size change, obviously the scouts don't think so as he went up in the rankings. Here is a great article on him http://www.bchl.ca/media/leagues/141...ey_current.pdf

Quote:
Prince George agrees with Paul De Jersey.

The 19-year-old right winger, who had 11 goals and 23 points in his first 93 BCHL regular season games split between the Salmon Arm Silverbacks and the Coquitlam Express, has put up a league-high 90 points, including 40 goals, in 51 contests so far this season with the Prince George Spruce Kings.

Prince George was home to his previous hockey highlight. His Hollyburn Huskies team from West Vancouver won the Triple A midget provincial crown in the city in March, 2009. Former NHLer Paul Reinhart was the Hollyburn coach, while his son, Griffin, now a prospective Top-10 NHL draft pick with the WHL's Edmonton Oil Kings, was another of their top players.

"I was pretty worried at first when I got traded to Prince George, because I didn't want to be 'that guy,' who gets traded a lot," said De Jersey, a 6-foot-3, 200-pound West Vancouver native, who was part of a three-way, three-player deal between the Spruce Kings, Silverbacks and Drumheller Dragons of the Alberta league in August.

"When the year started and things began to go well, I thought 'this is my hockey town. It's a good place for me.'"

He credits the "natural connection," he has with his regular linemates, Jujhar Khaira and Michael Colantone, for a good chunk of his outburst. Khaira, 17, a left winger from Surrey, is 11th in league scoring with 67 points, including 27 goals, while Colantone, 20, a Cave Creek, Arizona centre, is 15th, with 64 points, featuring 25 goals.

De Jersey says also he was just a young player waiting his turn with the Silverbacks and Express and believed he could handle the puck and get to the net enough to put up numbers if he got an opportunity to play an offensive role in the Junior A loop. He figured he would receive that chance with the Spruce Kings, and, before the year he had set his sights on a 70-point campaign.

Of course, 70 points is so six weeks ago now.

"I knew I was going to have a good year, but I certainly didn't think I was going to lead the league," he said.

Right now, he's keeping the Penticton Vees from holding down all the main storylines in the BCHL. Penticton is 46-3-0-2, putting them a whopping 21 points ahead of the league's next best team, and they've currently won 34 straight games, a BCHL record.

After De Jersey, the Vees have the next five scorers on the league chart, topped by forward Connor Reilly, who has 84 points, including 34 goals, in 51 games. All told, Penticton has seven of the best nine scorers and nine of the leading 14.

"I think it would be pretty cool to hold them off," De Jersey said.

De Jersey won't be back in Prince George next season. He's accepted an offer to play the 2012-13 season for the Providence College Friars, an NCAA team in Providence, R.I.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Pa...#ixzz1vKEhqK19

Quote:
The winner of the BCHL’s Interior Conference MVP award, De Jersey came out of nowhere to claim the Brett Hull Trophy as the league’s leading scorer; he finished with 98 points (41 goals, 57 assists) in 59 games after posting just 15 points in 33 games with Salmon Arm in 2010-11, and led the Spruce Kings back to the playoffs after a two-year absence, while also receiving an invite to the Canada West selection camp leading up to the 2011 World Junior A Challenge

A leader both on and off the ice, De Jersey put in considerable time this season with the St. Vincent DePaul Society, which prepares and serves meals for the less fortunate in Prince George. He was also committed to visiting elementary schools in the city, reading to and talking to young students.


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05-20-2012, 08:34 PM
  #775
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He sounds like a good option later on.

A good character/charitable person too.

Gotta like that size.

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