I predict the Edmonton tax payer kneels before Daryl and gives him another $100M, plus untold $10's of millions down the road to fund construction overages.
God, here we are again with the non-existant "overages" delusion that anti-arena people rant about.
You know as well as anyone that the builder will absorb the overages.
In other words...more speculation on your part. You've got nothing as usual, but your own paranoid conjecture. They've said many times that the MSI could be used to fund that last 100 million.
That doesn't actually indicate any additional funding. So it'd have to be money that was already expected.
Having said that, long before this Mandell was on the record for a construction break, and with the mothballing of the RAM other options could now be present.
EDIT: Note that your links talk about changes to the MSI. Which could include more funding. I know Stelmach suggested this and it'd apply to Calgary as well. If that happens then the $100 million will likely come from there.
As much as one would think it impossible, you take what Beerfish posts and amp it up by 10.
Even worse paranoid conjecture and speculation.
Is it just me, or are your posts getting more delusional?
Really, is this just a drive by or are you serious. Maybe contribute to the conversation next time, rather than attack the poster.
Let's look at the facts:
1) Katz said he would contribute $100 million upfront out of the $450 million project,
2) Katz has managed to get what he wants and no longer is required to contribute the $100 million upfront,
3) The City has bent over backwards to donate $250 million in tax payer dollars to Katz, despite being near their debt ceiling,
4) The new Premier has made historic indications that the Province will not likely participate in the project; combined with the Province allready near record deficit levels; she is likely to 'hold fort' on this,
5) Given how the city has allready bent to Katz's demands, why wouldn't they just dig deeper and find a way to give him another $100 million? Afterall this will be the Mayor's Legacy Project.
6) With respect to the $450 million project, we really won't know if there will be overrun's until we are well along the way. So are you suggesting that 80% along they find out the real cost is $510 million, they won't cover the remaing $60??? Afterall, Katz has allready pulled off the deal of the century, why wouldn't he hold pat and tell the city unless they complete the building he's moving his team to "Mexico City" or some other jurisdiction that makes more sense to him than Edmonton.
Surely you can come up with something better than telling posters they are "Delusional" or "Paranoid". It's really sad to come to this forum and anyone who is against the "Subsidy" is attacked personally, told they are going to burn in hell or just named called. These types of comments are making the many on here, who contribute serious dialogue, look awfully bad.
I doubt there is 1000 people in Edmonton that could afford a $200,000 investment ($400,000 in reality). That is a mortgage payment! And also the arena won't hold 22,000. That would be too much of a supply for the demand based on ticket price.
businesses and what not would maybe buy them up also im sure there are ppl in edmonton who but season tickets every year and a chance to get one seat for 30 yrs is maybe an option...also 22000 isnt to hard to sell out in this city also isn't the city growing each yr and quite a bit as well
6) With respect to the $450 million project, we really won't know if there will be overrun's until we are well along the way. So are you suggesting that 80% along they find out the real cost is $510 million, they won't cover the remaing $60??? Afterall, Katz has allready pulled off the deal of the century, why wouldn't he hold pat and tell the city unless they complete the building he's moving his team to "Mexico City" or some other jurisdiction that makes more sense to him than Edmonton.
Because it'd be the responsibility of Ledcor (or whomever builds it). Not Katz or the City.'
Really, is this just a drive by or are you serious. Maybe contribute to the conversation next time, rather than attack the poster.
Let's look at the facts:
1) Katz said he would contribute $100 million upfront out of the $450 million project,
Never once did he say up front
2) Katz has managed to get what he wants and no longer is required to contribute the $100 million upfront,
Never once did he say up front
3) The City has bent over backwards to donate $250 million in tax payer dollars to Katz, despite being near their debt ceiling,
Where are you getting this front? No Tax payer money will be involved
4) The new Premier has made historic indications that the Province will not likely participate in the project; combined with the Province allready near record deficit levels; she is likely to 'hold fort' on this,
Which is her porogative
5) Given how the city has allready bent to Katz's demands, why wouldn't they just dig deeper and find a way to give him another $100 million? Afterall this will be the Mayor's Legacy Project.
You realize the city is basically only acting as a bank for mister Katz in this deal right?
6) With respect to the $450 million project, we really won't know if there will be overrun's until we are well along the way. So are you suggesting that 80% along they find out the real cost is $510 million, they won't cover the remaing $60??? Afterall, Katz has allready pulled off the deal of the century, why wouldn't he hold pat and tell the city unless they complete the building he's moving his team to "Mexico City" or some other jurisdiction that makes more sense to him than Edmonton.
Wow you really should just quit talking about stuff you have no idea about
Surely you can come up with something better than telling posters they are "Delusional" or "Paranoid". It's really sad to come to this forum and anyone who is against the "Subsidy" is attacked personally, told they are going to burn in hell or just named called. These types of comments are making the many on here, who contribute serious dialogue, look awfully bad.
My responses in bold. Maybe ye can head ones own advice?
Let's look at the facts:
1) Katz said he would contribute $100 million upfront out of the $450 million project,
2) Katz has managed to get what he wants and no longer is required to contribute the $100 million upfront,
3) The City has bent over backwards to donate $250 million in tax payer dollars to Katz, despite being near their debt ceiling,
You have it backwards. Katz is donating >$100M in revenues to the city. He doesn't own the arena, the city does. FACTS are like magnets; how the **** do they work?
It's really sad to come to this forum and anyone who is against the "Subsidy" is attacked personally, told they are going to burn in hell or just named called. These types of comments are making the many on here, who contribute serious dialogue, look awfully bad.
Surely you jest. Ever read the anti- arena comments on Sun blogs (yes I know it's the Sun but still)? There are racist nutjobs nattering on about Katz and Mandel "jewing" the city whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.
Surely you jest. Ever read the anti- arena comments on Sun blogs (yes I know it's the Sun but still)? There are racist nutjobs nattering on about Katz and Mandel "jewing" the city whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.
I was talking about this forum. Since I am a fan, I am for a new area, and I am against public subsidies of private buisness.
Also, I can't comment on the Sun. I don't read it.
I was talking about this forum. Since I am a fan, I am for a new area, and I am against public subsidies of private buisness.
Also, I can't comment on the Sun. I don't read it.
No private entity is spending $400 million dollars+ to build an arena in Edmonton.
Generally speaking, I think the rush to build new arenas across North America is dying out. It just so happens the Oilers need a new arena soon.
It is what it is. This is not like some yearly industry that needs to be subsidized all the time. This is a one time injection of revenue for the next 40+ years.
You have it backwards. Katz is donating >$100M in revenues to the city. He doesn't own the arena, the city does. FACTS are like magnets; how the **** do they work?
OK, if you really need a science lesson. Magnetics are materials that create fields. On a macroscale these materials can include Iron, Nickel, Cobalt, some of the rare earth elements (most notably becasue of Chinese dominance in the space: Neodymium, Prasneodymium, and Samrium). Some minerals are magnetic (Magnetite) or paramagetic (Pyrrhotite, Illmenite, etc.). Also electromagnets produce electric fields when a current is passed through a coil of wire. On a megascale planets and stars can produce magnetic fields (with 2 poles), due to the varying physical properties of the body.
So the best way to quantify the magnetic field is by the magnetic flux density which is it's vector field. For example if you were to measure the magnetic field on a point of the earth, you would measure the strengths of the x, y, z axis. The SI unit for this measurement is teslas or gammas.
Is there some more specific information on magnetism that you are looking for, as this is a pretty lengthy subject?
Really, is this just a drive by or are you serious. Maybe contribute to the conversation next time, rather than attack the poster.
Let's look at the facts:
1) Katz said he would contribute $100 million upfront out of the $450 million project,
2) Katz has managed to get what he wants and no longer is required to contribute the $100 million upfront,
3) The City has bent over backwards to donate $250 million in tax payer dollars to Katz, despite being near their debt ceiling,
4) The new Premier has made historic indications that the Province will not likely participate in the project; combined with the Province allready near record deficit levels; she is likely to 'hold fort' on this,
5) Given how the city has allready bent to Katz's demands, why wouldn't they just dig deeper and find a way to give him another $100 million? Afterall this will be the Mayor's Legacy Project.
6) With respect to the $450 million project, we really won't know if there will be overrun's until we are well along the way. So are you suggesting that 80% along they find out the real cost is $510 million, they won't cover the remaing $60??? Afterall, Katz has allready pulled off the deal of the century, why wouldn't he hold pat and tell the city unless they complete the building he's moving his team to "Mexico City" or some other jurisdiction that makes more sense to him than Edmonton.
Surely you can come up with something better than telling posters they are "Delusional" or "Paranoid". It's really sad to come to this forum and anyone who is against the "Subsidy" is attacked personally, told they are going to burn in hell or just named called. These types of comments are making the many on here, who contribute serious dialogue, look awfully bad.
Oh, i was very serious about your delusional rhetoric:
Quote:
I predict the Edmonton tax payer kneels before Daryl and gives him another $100M, plus untold $10's of millions down the road to fund construction overages.
Can you not see how you come across to an educated rational viewer?
As for your recent post:
Quote:
1) Katz said he would contribute $100 million upfront out of the $450 million project
2) Katz has managed to get what he wants and no longer is required to contribute the $100 million upfront,
2/Katz and the CC have come to an agreement that changed some things...true - see 1/.
Quote:
3) The City has bent over backwards to donate $250 million in tax payer dollars to Katz, despite being near their debt ceiling,
3/In which universe did the city "donate" $250 million to Katz? Show me some links for proof on this one . The city is contributing $125 million towards the arena as you can again see in the framework link i provided in 1/.
Quote:
4) The new Premier has made historic indications that the Province will not likely participate in the project; combined with the Province allready near record deficit levels; she is likely to 'hold fort' on this,
4/Redford and Stelmach both said that the province would not directly help fund the arena construction, but also said that they see no reason why the last $100 million could not be funded from the MSI.
Quote:
5) Given how the city has allready bent to Katz's demands, why wouldn't they just dig deeper and find a way to give him another $100 million? Afterall this will be the Mayor's Legacy Project.
5/ The city (once again, because you cannot seem to get this through your skull) is not giving Katz any money. The arena and it's land will be owned by the city. I cannot apparently say this enough to you. It's like talking to a cup of coffee but inherently less satisfying. I agree that the mayor would like to leave some kind of legacy however...they all do.
Quote:
6) With respect to the $450 million project, we really won't know if there will be overrun's until we are well along the way. So are you suggesting that 80% along they find out the real cost is $510 million, they won't cover the remaing $60??? Afterall, Katz has allready pulled off the deal of the century, why wouldn't he hold pat and tell the city unless they complete the building he's moving his team to "Mexico City" or some other jurisdiction that makes more sense to him than Edmonton.
6/I read the first sentence and stopped after that because you started to say some really stupid stuff. Once again...There is a guarantee in place as part of the agreement to not have the arena cost more than the $450 million. If you actually take the time to read the framework in the link provided, you would see this in the very first paragraph:
Quote:
City Council has agreed to move ahead with the design of a new downtown arena and approved a financial framework for the project. The City will spend $30 million to complete the design to 60 per cent, which will enable contractors to bid on delivering a Guaranteed Maximum Price of $450 million for building construction
It's absolutely draining when you constantly try to show someone the facts but they consistently refuse to look due to bias. You keep going back to arguments that have no merit, or have been disproven. Beyond what i just posted, i simply cannot help you if you don't get it.
No private entity is spending $400 million dollars+ to build an arena in Edmonton.
Generally speaking, I think the rush to build new arenas across North America is dying out. It just so happens the Oilers need a new arena soon.
It is what it is. This is not like some yearly industry that needs to be subsidized all the time. This is a one time injection of revenue for the next 40+ years.
I know. Your mostly right. All this dialogue is really about my beef that we should of got a much better deal. A few beers with reasonable, unemotional dialogue, and even most people on here would agree.
Oh, i was very serious about your delusional rhetoric:
Can you not see how you come across to an educated rational viewer?
As for your recent post:
1/ He never said it would be upfront, and due to changes agreed upon by the CC this aspect of his funding has changed. See the new framework here: http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...own-arena.aspx
2/Katz and the CC have come to an agreement that changed some things...true - see 1/.
3/In which universe did the city "donate" $250 million to Katz? Show me some links for proof on this one . The city is contributing $125 million towards the arena as you can again see in the framework link i provided in 1/.
4/Redford and Stelmach both said that the province would not directly help fund the arena construction, but also said that they see no reason why the last $100 million could not be used from the MSI.
5/ The city (once again, because you cannot seem to get this through your skull) is not giving Katz any money. The arena and it's land will be owned by the city. I cannot apparently say this enough to you. It's like talking to a cup of coffee but inherently less satisfying. I agree that the mayor would like to leave some kind of legacy however...they all do.
6/I read the first sentence and stopped after that because you started to say some really stupid stuff. Once again...There is a guarantee in place as part of the agreement to not have the arena cost more than the $450 million. If you actually take the time to read the framework in the link provided, you would see this in the very first paragraph:
It's absolutely draining when you constantly try to show someone the facts but they consistently refuse to look due to bias. You keep going back to arguments that have no merit, or have been disproven. Beyond what i just posted, i simply cannot help you if you don't get it.
No you don't get it. No company is going to guarantee the maximum price, without an out. You believe what you want, but I review contracts all the time. They all have OUTS! And if there is an overage in the building, in the LRT extension, in the pedway or other infrastructure; or if a contractor goes broke etc. ... and you believe Katz will cover the cost .... then you are the one who is "Delusional".
OK, if you really need a science lesson. Magnetics are materials that create fields. On a macroscale these materials can include Iron, Nickel, Cobalt, some of the rare earth elements (most notably becasue of Chinese dominance in the space: Neodymium, Prasneodymium, and Samrium). Some minerals are magnetic (Magnetite) or paramagetic (Pyrrhotite, Illmenite, etc.). Also electromagnets produce electric fields when a current is passed through a coil of wire. On a megascale planets and stars can produce magnetic fields (with 2 poles), due to the varying physical properties of the body.
So the best way to quantify the magnetic field is by the magnetic flux density which is it's vector field. For example if you were to measure the magnetic field on a point of the earth, you would measure the strengths of the x, y, z axis. The SI unit for this measurement is teslas or gammas.
Is there some more specific information on magnetism that you are looking for, as this is a pretty lengthy subject?
I've disagreed with almost everything you've posted on the arena subject, but this may very well be the best post on the board.
No you don't get it. No company is going to guarantee the maximum price, without an out. You believe what you want, but I review contracts all the time. They all have OUTS! And if there is an overage in the building, in the LRT extension, in the pedway or other infrastructure; or if a contractor goes broke etc. ... and you believe Katz will cover the cost .... then you are the one who is "Delusional".
No you don't get it. No company is going to guarantee the maximum price, without an out. You believe what you want, but I review contracts all the time. They all have OUTS! And if there is an overage in the building, in the LRT extension, in the pedway or other infrastructure; or if a contractor goes broke etc. ... and you believe Katz will cover the cost .... then you are the one who is "Delusional".
Okie...here we go. Katz is not responsible for LRT extensions, but is paying for half of the pedway costs up to 25 million. You can speculate all you want, but contracts with guranteed maximum's have been done before and will be done again.
So you can speculate all you want, but at the end of the day that's all it is. Pure speculation that the sky will fall, and that Katz is screwing the city.
No company is going to gurantee the maximum price? Really? Then why do these type of contacts even exist? Why did the city council agree upon this as part of the framework for the agreement? Can you answer that for me without giving me a pile of crap for an answer based on conjecture and personal bias?
Okie...here we go. Katz is not responsible for LRT extensions, but is paying for half of the pedway costs up to 25 million. You can speculate all you want, but contracts with guranteed maximum's have been done before and will be done again.
So you can speculate all you want, but at the end of the day that's all it is. Pure speculation that the sky will fall, and that Katz is screwing the city.
No company is going to gurantee the maximum price? Really? Then why do these type of contacts even exist? Why did the city council agree upon this as part of the framework for the agreement? Can you answer that for me without giving me a pile of crap for an answer based on conjecture and personal bias?
What company is going to gurantee the maximum price? Really? If there is a massive overrun, then they won't try and wiggle out of it? Why did the city council agree upon this as part of the framework for the agreement? Can you answer that for me without giving me a pile of crap for an answer based on conjecture and personal bias?
You keep going back to arguments that have no merit, or have been disproven. Beyond what i just posted, i simply cannot help you if you don't get it.
