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Is it too early to say we need a new coach?

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Old
11-04-2011, 02:26 AM
  #51
Sabretip
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Time to rewind the tape that gets played everytime the Sabres fall into a funk.....

"Fire Ruff", "Fire Regier", "Trade Miller", "This team has no heart....", "This team is terrible...", yada, yada, yada.

There are a lot of players underachieving so far, for whatever reasons - complacency, chemistry, nagging injuries - and the coaching staff is trying to figure out how to compensate for it. Does it suck to watch them lose the way they are? Of course - but when they went 5-1 in the first 2-1/2 weeks, we all saw signs that the team still had kinks to work out. All that this losing streak has done is prove it but I don't quite get the panic many seem to feel. When I look around the NHL and see a lot of teams that are better than their records (Vancouver, Detroit, Boston, Rangers, Tampa) also struggling to find their form, the Sabres aren't in any dire straits yet.

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Old
11-04-2011, 09:21 AM
  #52
Lock3Boys
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Even if we miss the playoffs this season, I do not think pegula will fire lindy.

Middle of next season is earliest I can see it happening and that would only be if we tank badly between now and then.

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11-04-2011, 09:46 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyMy57 View Post
His Jack Adams says differently. Lindy isn't the problem, not at all.
The following coaches have won the Jack Adams ( and also fired )

Ted Nolan
Bill barber
Bob Francis

Those 3 are great coaches, where are they now with their special Jack Adams wins?
Coaches with an Adams and cup trophies have been fired but Ruff is bulletproof, it really is a sad joke, Ruff should have been gone 3 years ago.I can assure you we will win no cups with Ruff behind our bench.


Last edited by joshjull: 11-04-2011 at 02:04 PM.
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Old
11-04-2011, 09:54 AM
  #54
omglolnub
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It's not that Ruff is a bad coach. Cause he's not. It's just that the team's needed a change of coaching pace for several years now. It's been a case of same coach, (mostly) same results year after year. After all, insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results...

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:38 AM
  #55
cardiffgiant
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Originally Posted by Vito_81 View Post
The only mistake Ruff has made thus far is his usual line juggling. It wasn't too bad when it was mixing up guys who were all familiar with each other from years of being team mates. It's a different story when you've got new faces in there. It's almost to the point where nobody really knows who their linemates will be next shift, let alone have the time to get into a rhythm as a line. Based on his comments last night it seems that Lindy realises this fact.
That's a little dramatic, don't you think? You make it sound like he's pulling jersey numbers fro ma hat after evey line change. Until the last game, the only real shuffling was within a couple of forward lines after Ennis's injury.

Leino just hasn't clicked with anyone and they need him to. Ruff tried him on the 1st line for one period (then went back to VAP) and commented after the game that he didn't like the result. He juggled again in the 2nd when Vanek spent the majority of the period getting his face stitched.

VAP was togehter for 10 games, the defensive pairings weren't shuffled until Weber was dressed, and other than a couple of shifts with Kaleta next to Roy, Gaustad and Kaleta have been joined at the hip.

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:47 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiffgiant View Post
Ruff tried him on the 1st line for one period (then went back to VAP) and commented after the game that he didn't like the result.
Well how could he not with that huge sample size? I mean, a whole period to adjust to two guys you've never played with before?? He should have ended it after the first shift!!!

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:59 AM
  #57
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Last edited by cardiffgiant: 11-05-2011 at 08:31 AM.
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Old
11-04-2011, 02:10 PM
  #58
joshjull
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Enough with the personal crap and off topic nonsense. Warnings or infractions will be handed out.

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Old
11-04-2011, 07:17 PM
  #59
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Gragnani back in for Weber.

Just sayin...

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Old
11-04-2011, 10:53 PM
  #60
cardiffgiant
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Gragnani back in for Weber.

Just sayin...
The guy with the assist on the game winner?

But, yeah... I was surprised to see him switch back to Gragnani so quickly.

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Old
11-05-2011, 03:32 AM
  #61
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WARNING: NOT a bash Lindy thread

I just can't help but wonder why Lindy seems to get a pass, in a general sense, when no other coach in the league will get one repeatedly.

You would expect that a coach who's maintained his position for 15 seasons with the same team would've at least won a few championships---and even coaches who do that don't even last as long as Lindy.

I mean this with all sincereity: What makes Lindy so special? What does he do that warrants repeated reprieves from the ax no matter how the team does? Is it because he had a Stanley Cup appearance 13 seasons ago?

What gives?

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Old
11-05-2011, 03:38 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squantosawuss View Post
WARNING: NOT a bash Lindy thread

I just can't help but wonder why Lindy seems to get a pass, in a general sense, when no other coach in the league will get one.

You would expect that a coach who's maintained his position for 15 seasons with the same team would've at least won a few championships---and even coaches who do that don't even last as long as Lindy.

I mean this with all sincereity: What makes Lindy so special? What does he do that warrants repeated reprieves from the ax no matter how the team does? Is it because he had a Stanley Cup appearance 13 seasons ago?

What gives?
I mean this with all sincerity what coach has won -a few- championships?

What coach has won more games since the lockout and been fired?

What coach has won more playoff games since the lockout and been fired?

What coach has been to the playoffs 4/6 years since the lockout and been fired?

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Old
11-05-2011, 03:52 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
It's not that Ruff is a bad coach. Cause he's not. It's just that the team's needed a change of coaching pace for several years now. It's been a case of same coach, (mostly) same results year after year. After all, insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results...
What would you like to see done differently from a scheme standpoint? Move into a trap? Play an umbrella offense? Change the breakout scheme to more of a retrieve from the corners? Surely if you want a change of pace, you know what pace you believe the Sabres players are more adept at?

I mean otherwise; such a comment would just be yelling shoot on the powerplay.

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Old
11-05-2011, 04:21 AM
  #64
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Most coaching changes are desperation moves, anyway. Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, sort of thing. Sometimes it's appropriate, but change for the sake of change is only gratifying on internet forums and call-in talk shows.

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Old
11-05-2011, 08:03 AM
  #65
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Seems like a bash Lindy thread to me.

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Old
11-05-2011, 08:14 AM
  #66
sabrezombie
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Which one of those 15 teams had any business winning a championship?

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Old
11-05-2011, 08:37 AM
  #67
cardiffgiant
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Originally Posted by Squantosawuss View Post
You would expect that a coach who's maintained his position for 15 seasons with the same team would've at least won a few championships---and even coaches who do that don't even last as long as Lindy.
15/5=3

You would expect a coach to win the Stanley Cup once every three years, but... that doesn't guarantee that you won't fire him.

Sounds reasonable.

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Old
11-05-2011, 09:03 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dire wolf View Post
Most coaching changes are desperation moves, anyway.
I suspect you mean those where the team pulls the trigger (as opposed to a coach that chooses to not renew a contract)

This holds true for most team sports, in fact. As the saying goes, players win games; coaches lose them. It's harder to sack a team so coaches are often the scapegoats for underperformance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrezombie View Post
Which one of those 15 teams had any business winning a championship?
And Lindy's kept the team overacheiving, consistently competitive with a low payroll. There's been no reason to pull the trigger.

I guess he's been fortunate that he hasn't been working under an impatient/twitchy owner/GM.

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Old
11-05-2011, 09:12 AM
  #69
sabrezombie
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Originally Posted by not a trapdoor View Post
I suspect you mean those where the team pulls the trigger (as opposed to a coach that chooses to not renew a contract)

This holds true for most team sports, in fact. As the saying goes, players win games; coaches lose them. It's harder to sack a team so coaches are often the scapegoats for underperformance.



And Lindy's kept the team overacheiving, consistently competitive with a low payroll. There's been no reason to pull the trigger.

I guess he's been fortunate that he hasn't been working under an impatient/twitchy owner/GM.
My HS football coach used to say that one of the hardest parts of being a coach was that when we won the players were awesome and when we lost the coach was a shmuck.

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Old
11-05-2011, 09:28 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by dire wolf View Post
Most coaching changes are desperation moves, anyway. Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, sort of thing. Sometimes it's appropriate, but change for the sake of change is only gratifying on internet forums and call-in talk shows.
Would you really consider firing a coach after 15 years a desperation move or change for the sake of change? In the immortal words of Ryan Miller, "Like, I don't like, get that."

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Old
11-05-2011, 10:05 AM
  #71
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These anti-Ruff/Regier/Miller etc threads are always 99% agenda and 1% reason & argument. I honestly don't know why I bother to read.

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11-05-2011, 10:19 AM
  #72
Jame
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whenever these threads pop up... i ask the same question:
What makes Lindy a good coach, good enough to be the longest employed in his business?

From my POV, Ruff is given credit for everything that has gone well over the last 15 years... while any failures are placed on the shoulders of Quinn, or Golisano, or bankruptcy, or Regier, or the players, the lack of players, the attitude of players...

When the Sabres win, Ruff is a great coach
When the Sabres lose, Everyone around him is terrible

Aside from win/losses... what actual QUALITIES make Ruff so great? I am asking because I don't know.

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Old
11-05-2011, 10:50 AM
  #73
cardiffgiant
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Aside from win/losses... what actual QUALITIES make Ruff so great? I am asking because I don't know.
It's actually a great question, and that fact that these threads wind up 99% emotion 1% fact is probably a good indication of how difficult a question it is to answer.

What is it that makes Lindy good/bad? And what are the qualities of any other available candidates that would make them better? I don't know that anyone that hasn't been personally involved with multiple organizations can answer.

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11-05-2011, 10:59 AM
  #74
Squantosawuss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnuguy View Post
I mean this with all sincerity what coach has won -a few- championships?

What coach has won more games since the lockout and been fired?

What coach has won more playoff games since the lockout and been fired?

What coach has been to the playoffs 4/6 years since the lockout and been fired?
Did it ever occur to you that MAYBE, just maybe EVERY other coach would've been fired before they had a chance to do any of that?

Ever hear the old addage that if you put a monkey in front of a typerwriter (or laptop now), eventually, he'll randomly type a book?

My inital question: WHAT makes Ruff so worth repeated chances---more than just about ANY other coach in ALL of sports!

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Old
11-05-2011, 11:02 AM
  #75
TehDoak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
whenever these threads pop up... i ask the same question:
What makes Lindy a good coach, good enough to be the longest employed in his business?

From my POV, Ruff is given credit for everything that has gone well over the last 15 years... while any failures are placed on the shoulders of Quinn, or Golisano, or bankruptcy, or Regier, or the players, the lack of players, the attitude of players...

When the Sabres win, Ruff is a great coach
When the Sabres lose, Everyone around him is terrible

Aside from win/losses... what actual QUALITIES make Ruff so great? I am asking because I don't know.
He's a veteran coach that has successfully implemented extremely defensive first systems with success and high tempo offensive systems with success. His teams are usually well prepared and the system usually works. He is always tweaking and learning. He's more of a motivator/manager than a strategic guy and often fails to make in game adjustments quick enough.

The book against him is seems to play favorites a bit too much and it is almost impossible to get out of his doghouse once the players are in it. His guys are often giving a very long, to a fault, leash while guys who he deems not up to par have to play perfect games to avoid the bench. He can very much be a 'my way to the highway' style which can grate on players, as we saw with Afinogenov and, early in his career, Vanek. We also saw it with Torres and Moore in their short stays.

However, in the realm of coaches in the NHL, you will struggle to find coaches that know how to run a bench better. Trotz in Nashville, Babcock in Detroit, and Dan Bylsma in Pittsburgh are the only coaches who might be better than Ruff, overall. However, given his history here and his loyalty to the franchise and his desire to not only win a cup, but win a cup for Buffalo, he's not going to be replaced. No coach is without his faults, and yes, sometimes he gets a bit overhyped, but he is still a very good coach.

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